Johnny Orr's Recruits

[DeBruzzio]

Johnny would have had Glenn Rice out of Flint, if his HS coach would have let him sign in the early signing period.

He also came in a close 2nd on Loy Vaught of Michigan and Charles Smith of Pitt. There was a "what could have been list" in the Register years ago that listed these guys and a few others I don't recall.

 

[mcblogerson]

I totally agree with this and have stated it in other posts previously. The building of a pipeline you can count on year in and year out is a critical thing. To me part of what has been so disturbing about McDermott's recruiting to date is the randomness of it. Maybe he can build a pipeline to this Brewster Academy.

I'd say the players we've pulled out of the chicago/milwaukee area is a pipeline forming

 

[cykadelic2]

Clearly, everyone is pointing out that Johnny knew how to spot and recruit talent.

Johnny also didn't waste scholarships on guys like Eikmeier...he would have a guy like that walk-on and if he proved to be good enough later he would put him on scholarship.

I agree that Johnny utilized his existing pipeline to MI well at ISU but it should be pointed out that Johnny really struggled to get things going at ISU in his first 3 years (similar to GMac) until he got an absolute gift in Hornacek. From a roster standpoint, Johnny and GMac inherited similar situations although Johnny at least inherited one good guard in Lefty Moore. GMac inherited zero guards.

And Johnny definitely had his fair share of busts during his ISU tenure. His conference record over his tenure reflects that (only 2 seasons above .500).

 

[Aclone]

Grayer would have been a 5 star
Hoiberg a low 5 star possibly high 5 star
Hurl Beachum would have been top 150
Lafester Rhodes was actually a huge recruit. Probably 4 star
Sam Mack was a huge recruit.
Big Vic was a 4 star type player.
Hornacek was a walkon but he was known. Probably a 3 star player
Barry Stevens was probably a 3 or 4 star guy. Ended up a 5 star in my book.
Ronnie Virgil 3 star type guy.
Elmer Robinson 3 or 4 star guy
Loren Meyer was a 4 star guy
Julius was probably a 2 star guy since nobody knew who he was.

Most of the guys you refer to here would have been, at best, three star recruits. They simply happened to develop here. Grayer, for example, maybe would have been a four star--and if he'd have been known that well, Michigan would have been all over him, like they were Rice.

I would agree that Meyer was probably a borderline four star, however. He was known well enough that he and Hoiberg were considered the prizes of that class.

Sam Mack and Mark Baugh would have been three star players, very similar to Antwon Oliver and Ejim. Of course, Mack had only just turned sixteen when he signed.

 

[pulse]

You guys must all work for recruiting services.

 

[cykadelic2]

Some revisions are in order IMO:

Grayer would have been a 5 star (5 star very doubtful, 4 star yes)

Hoiberg a low 5 star possibly high 5 star (same as Grayer, his football options perhaps hurt his basketball stock, he really wasn't a typical 5-star recruiting commodity at the time)

Hurl Beachum would have been top 150 (probably not that high)

Lafester Rhodes was actually a huge recruit. Probably 4 star (Agree)

Sam Mack was a huge recruit (not a 5 star, likely a 4 star)

Big Vic was a 4 star type player (I don't recall his stock being that high)

Hornacek was a walkon but he was known. Probably a 3 star player (Absolutely not, a 2 star kid at the high major level)

Barry Stevens was probably a 3 or 4 star guy. Ended up a 5 star in my book. (Agree)

Ronnie Virgil 3 star type guy. (Agree)

Elmer Robinson 3 or 4 star guy (Baseball options for Elmer reduced his stock to no more than a 3 star)

Loren Meyer was a 4 star guy (Actually he might have been a 5 star, he was a Top 5 or 10 center recruit but his early commitment to ISU reduced his recruiting buzz)

Julius was probably a 2 star guy since nobody knew who he was (ISU beat UCLA for Julo so he was at least a 3 star type)

 

[Knownothing]

Hornacek was not a normal walkon. Not even close. He had many offers. Hornacek decided to go to a different college first. Then he transfered to ISU because he was promised a scholly after the first semester or second semester. It was not a case of him being no good so he walked on and earned a schollarship. I know we all act like that is how it happened but it's not.
Loren Meyer was so good in high school he was recruited by a ton of big schools. He would have been a 4 star recruit. 7 footer with athletic ability. He was not the same type of project that some are making him out to be. He actual had a ton of foul trouble his freshman year. His defense sucked. His offensive game was very good for a freshman. He actually averaged over 20 points his junior year. Over 14 his sophmore year. So he was not a project except on the defensive side of the ball.

My numbers are not homered. I followed ISU recruiting even back then.

 

[Bobber]

Hornacek was not a normal walkon. Not even close. He had many offers. Hornacek decided to go to a different college first. Then he transfered to ISU because he was promised a scholly after the first semester or second semester. It was not a case of him being no good so he walked on and earned a schollarship. I know we all act like that is how it happened but it's not.
Loren Meyer was so good in high school he was recruited by a ton of big schools. He would have been a 4 star recruit. 7 footer with athletic ability. He was not the same type of project that some are making him out to be. He actual had a ton of foul trouble his freshman year. His defense sucked. His offensive game was very good for a freshman. He actually averaged over 20 points his junior year. Over 14 his sophmore year. So he was not a project except on the defensive side of the ball.

My numbers are not homered. I followed ISU recruiting even back then.

Okay my bad. I just didn't remember him playing like a 4 star until his later years. One of my favorite memories was of him taking over that Big 8 Tourney game in KC after Tim Floyd got kicked out of the game.

 

[pulse]

Knownothing, these other guys know nothing about ISU back then. Here's a little blurb on Loren:

"Meyer was also a two time high school All-American and the 1991 Naismith Award winner as Iowa’s most outstanding prep player. His numbers validate those honors. As a senior he led the state in scoring with a 40.9 ppg scoring with 813 points. He also collected 300 rebounds and blocked 120 shots."

People remember Meyer for getting hit by a train and that's what they think of. Meyer was a great BB player.

 

[Bobber]

Knownothing, these other guys know nothing about ISU back then. Here's a little blurb on Loren:

"Meyer was also a two time high school All-American and the 1991 Naismith Award winner as Iowa’s most outstanding prep player. His numbers validate those honors. As a senior he led the state in scoring with a 40.9 ppg scoring with 813 points. He also collected 300 rebounds and blocked 120 shots."

People remember Meyer for getting hit by a train and that's what they think of. Meyer was a great BB player.

Know nothing?? Well I know the kid was from Ruthven Iowa, didn't exactly play the toughest competion in high school, so he sure should have been able to score points in high school when he was playing mostly kids a lot smaller than him.

Had a decent career at ISU.

Not so much in the NBA.

Last I heard was one of the tallest "trappers" Ruthven has ever seen.

I used to work for the grain elevator manager from that town and he knew a lot about Loren.

 

[Knownothing]

Meyer was one of the most gifted High School players in the history of Iowa State high school basketball. He was known by the biggest schools out of Ruthven, Iowa. I will never forget as a 7 footer him comming baseline, hanging in the air, and scooping a shot under the basket in the big 8 tourny game. It was Jordan like for a 7 footer. Oh yeah and he got hit by a train to.

Quick stat. Iowa State was the only team in the country with 3 players returning who averaged over 20 points a game.

Loren
Freddy
Julo.

Julo was averaging under 15. When Loren got hurt he started averaging over 20. That put those 3 with a cool stat for the next year.

 

[pulse]

Meyer was one of the most gifted High School players in the history of Iowa State high school basketball. He was known by the biggest schools out of Ruthven, Iowa. I will never forget as a 7 footer him comming baseline, hanging in the air, and scooping a shot under the basket in the big 8 tourny game. It was Jordan like for a 7 footer. Oh yeah and he got hit by a train to.

Quick stat. Iowa State was the only team in the country with 3 players returning who averaged over 20 points a game.

Loren
Freddy
Julo.

Julo was averaging under 15. When Loren got hurt he started averaging over 20. That put those 3 with a cool stat for the next year.

Meyer was very agile and really ran the floor. He had such a gigantic stride in transition that when he was finishing on the break or driving to the basket the opposing fans always wanted a walk because he could cover so much ground.

 

[Bipolarcy]

Understatement of the century. The comparison would be if John Neal was still playing in the NBA. Hornacek was a walk-on.

This has grown into a myth of epic proportions. Yes, Hornacek was technically a walkon, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a coveted player coming out of high school because he was. It was a matter of Hornacek deciding late that he wanted to play for Orr and by that time, all the scholarships were filled. However, he had scholarship offers, including one from Iowa State. Make no mistake. Hornacek was regarded as a decent player coming out of high school, certainly no John Neal.

A better comparison than Neal would be if we had been out of scholarships for Scott Christopherson and he had to walk on, then went on to a lengthy NBA career.

 

[Bobber]

This has grown into a myth of epic proportions. Yes, Hornacek was technically a walkon, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a coveted player coming out of high school because he was. It was a matter of Hornacek deciding late that he wanted to play for Orr and by that time, all the scholarships were filled. However, he had scholarship offers, including one from Iowa State. Make no mistake. Hornacek was regarded as a decent player coming out of high school, certainly no John Neal.

A better comparison than Neal would be if we had been out of scholarships for Scott Christopherson and he had to walk on, then went on to a lengthy NBA career.

I have no doubt about that. Nobody saw the NBA career coming he had however.

 

[Knownothing]

Nobody saw the NBA career coming is right on. However he was recruited out of high school.
I think we all like that term walkon. He basically would have been considered a greyshirt in all honesty. He had the offer. Orr filled it. Then he decided on Iowa State. Then redshirted. Oh yeah his dad was his high school basketball coach. That is why he was so fundamentally sound.

 

[CyPride]

Hornacek was not a normal walkon. Not even close. He had many offers. Hornacek decided to go to a different college first. Then he transfered to ISU because he was promised a scholly after the first semester or second semester. It was not a case of him being no good so he walked on and earned a schollarship. I know we all act like that is how it happened but it's not.
Loren Meyer was so good in high school he was recruited by a ton of big schools. He would have been a 4 star recruit. 7 footer with athletic ability. He was not the same type of project that some are making him out to be. He actual had a ton of foul trouble his freshman year. His defense sucked. His offensive game was very good for a freshman. He actually averaged over 20 points his junior year. Over 14 his sophmore year. So he was not a project except on the defensive side of the ball.

My numbers are not homered. I followed ISU recruiting even back then.

Knownothing - thanks for the rep. comment to me on my comments on Hornacek. In your comments to me you admonished me by saying I didn't know my history about Hornacek and that you did. You said he had several offers (like you did in this thread) but failed to mention any or all of them to me or in this thread. So, please enlighten me as to why Hornacek turned down all those offers to walk on with us. Thanks in advance.

 

[cjclone]

A friend of his in college told me he really wanted to play for North Carolina but was a half a step too slow. That was where his heart was then anyway. More, I do not know.

 

[Aclone]

A better comparison than Neal would be if we had been out of scholarships for Scott Christopherson and he had to walk on, then went on to a lengthy NBA career.

Yeah, I guess that would explain why Hornacek wasn't on scholarship until his third season.

I have no doubt about that. Nobody saw the NBA career coming he had however.

The main reason for Jeff's NBA career was that he went to Phoenix, and the Suns were absolutely desperate for guards at that time. That's the only reason he made the roster, had a chance to retool his shot--and eventually went on to a lengthy career.

 

[Bipolarcy]

Yeah, I guess that would explain why Hornacek wasn't on scholarship until his third season.



The main reason for Jeff's NBA career was that he went to Phoenix, and the Suns were absolutely desperate for guards at that time. That's the only reason he made the roster, had a chance to retool his shot--and eventually went on to a lengthy career.

I guess it would help if you knew the walkon rules. Scholarships cannot be given to walkons until they have been in the system two years, making the third year the first year they are eligible. Glad I could help.

 

[Knownothing]

Because he was waiting for a bigger offer than ISU. That is why. When it did not come he decided ISU and his scholly that he was offered was gone. So he had to Walk on.
So yes I actually do know more than you on his recruiting. You are acting like he is a John Neal type walkon. He was not.

See what Bipolarcy said about walkons above this comment and then read my comment and the legend of Hornaceks walk on dies pretty quick.