Johnny Orr's Recruits

  • After Iowa State won the Big 12, a Cyclone made a wonderful offer to We Will that now increases our match. Now all gifts up to $400,000 between now and the Final 4 will be matched. Please consider giving at We Will Collective.
    This notice can be dismissed using the upper right corner X button.

pulse

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2006
9,087
2,397
113
Yeah, I guess that would explain why Hornacek wasn't on scholarship until his third season. :jimlad:



The main reason for Jeff's NBA career was that he went to Phoenix, and the Suns were absolutely desperate for guards at that time. That's the only reason he made the roster, had a chance to retool his shot--and eventually went on to a lengthy career.

I used to work with a guy who played with the Suns. He didn't know I went to ISU, and I asked him what he thought of Jeff Hornacek. He said <paraphrasing> "woo, that guy could put a pass anywhere and it came rocketing at you right where you wanted it."

So no, that's not the only reason....
 

CyPride

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2008
2,543
80
48
102
Because he was waiting for a bigger offer than ISU. That is why. When it did not come he decided ISU and his scholly that he was offered was gone. So he had to Walk on.
So yes I actually do know more than you on his recruiting. You are acting like he is a John Neal type walkon. He was not.

See what Bipolarcy said about walkons above this comment and then read my comment and the legend of Hornaceks walk on dies pretty quick.

You told me to "know my history" when making comments on the board. You said he had other offers, and because of that he would be rated a 3 star. Now you are saying he was waiting for a "bigger" offer and that is why he chose to walk on at ISU. So was his biggest offer at the time from Cornell U? Are you still standing firm on your 3-star stance if his "biggest" offer came from Cornell?

Awaiting the history lesson.
 

Bipolarcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2008
2,966
1,771
113
Most of the guys you refer to here would have been, at best, three star recruits. They simply happened to develop here. Grayer, for example, maybe would have been a four star--and if he'd have been known that well, Michigan would have been all over him, like they were Rice.

I would agree that Meyer was probably a borderline four star, however. He was known well enough that he and Hoiberg were considered the prizes of that class.

Sam Mack and Mark Baugh would have been three star players, very similar to Antwon Oliver and Ejim. Of course, Mack had only just turned sixteen when he signed.

Michigan was all over Grayer. He chose ISU instead. Grayer was a very highly regarded player and I think 4-star is about right. As someone else said, Thompkins was also a very highly regarded player, probably a 4-star.
 

Knownothing

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
16,649
8,717
113
50
You told me to "know my history" when making comments on the board. You said he had other offers, and because of that he would be rated a 3 star. Now you are saying he was waiting for a "bigger" offer and that is why he chose to walk on at ISU. So was his biggest offer at the time from Cornell U? Are you still standing firm on your 3-star stance if his "biggest" offer came from Cornell?

Awaiting the history lesson.

No he had bigger offers. This is like the 4th history lesson of this thread for you. You probably had trouble in history class because you kept asking for something. The teach (me) would give it to you and then you would ask the same question again.

He was waiting for offers from North Carolina and Indiana. He had other D1 schools offer him. He liked Iowa State the best of the schools that offered him. He would have been a 3 star recruit. What part of this equation are you seriously not getting?
 

Knownothing

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2006
16,649
8,717
113
50
Also did you know Tramp55 was also offered a football scholly at Iowa? Chose Iowa State basketball instead.
 

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
I agree that Johnny utilized his existing pipeline to MI well at ISU but it should be pointed out that Johnny really struggled to get things going at ISU in his first 3 years (similar to GMac) until he got an absolute gift in Hornacek. From a roster standpoint, Johnny and GMac inherited similar situations although Johnny at least inherited one good guard in Lefty Moore. GMac inherited zero guards.

And Johnny definitely had his fair share of busts during his ISU tenure. His conference record over his tenure reflects that (only 2 seasons above .500).

Johnny may have struggled initially at ISU but there was never any doubt that we were heading in the right direction during the start of his era. I would say there is significant doubt right now about whether or not we are heading in the right direction with McDermott. The ISU program was in a much weaker position when Johnny took over than when McDermott did.

No doubt Johnny had some busts...but he also had a lot of hits. You might also want to go look back at the Big 8 of the 80s...you might see that it was one of, if not the, best conference during the decade...very few gimme games in conference. Heck, in 1988 the National Championship game which was won by KU (who we beat in Hilton) was between KU and OU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yCy

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
Nobody saw the NBA career coming is right on. However he was recruited out of high school.
I think we all like that term walkon. He basically would have been considered a greyshirt in all honesty. He had the offer. Orr filled it. Then he decided on Iowa State. Then redshirted. Oh yeah his dad was his high school basketball coach. That is why he was so fundamentally sound.

Hornacek was a tremendous passer with fantastic basketball IQ. He was a very good ball handler. However, his jump shot at ISU could really not be termed "fundamentally sound"...he shot it with a side spin. I do think he was overall very fundamentally sound but he did not have the perfect game at ISU. The pros really retaught him to shoot in the fundamentally sound fashion that many remember during his time with Utah.
 

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
No he had bigger offers. This is like the 4th history lesson of this thread for you. You probably had trouble in history class because you kept asking for something. The teach (me) would give it to you and then you would ask the same question again.

He was waiting for offers from North Carolina and Indiana. He had other D1 schools offer him. He liked Iowa State the best of the schools that offered him. He would have been a 3 star recruit. What part of this equation are you seriously not getting?

I was there and I do not remember anything about UNC or IU. I believe the only scholarship offer he had was Cornell.
 

Bipolarcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2008
2,966
1,771
113
Johnny may have struggled initially at ISU but there was never any doubt that we were heading in the right direction during the start of his era. I would say there is significant doubt right now about whether or not we are heading in the right direction with McDermott. The ISU program was in a much weaker position when Johnny took over than when McDermott did.

How do you figure? McDermott was left with 4 scholarship players when he took over. How many did Orr have? I'm sure it was more than 4. I don't know how much lower you can get, frankly.

You don't see the program heading in the right direction? What are you looking at? I see the recruiting getting better, the play getting better and the fan optimism getting better. It may not show up in the record this year because we have a brutal schedule and nearly everyone in the Big XII returns nearly all their key players. But there is no question in my mind that it's better than when McDermott took over.
 

cykadelic2

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2006
3,119
1,123
113
Johnny may have struggled initially at ISU but there was never any doubt that we were heading in the right direction during the start of his era. I would say there is significant doubt right now about whether or not we are heading in the right direction with McDermott. The ISU program was in a much weaker position when Johnny took over than when McDermott did.

Nope.

Johnny was coming off a losing season in Year 3 after losing the final 6 games of the season. Expectations in Year 4 for Johnny were arguably less than what they are in Year 4 for GMac. There was plenty of doubt after Year 3 that Johnny was going to turn it around. Johnny's Year 4 produced a 16-13 record, 6-8 in conference, and a NIT berth. I think GMac has good chance to do better than that in Year 4.

And again, from a roster perspective, what GMac inherited was arguably worse than what Johnny inherited. GMac had only 4 players and none of them were guards.
 

cjclone

Active Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 22, 2006
536
88
28
No doubt Johnny had some busts...but he also had a lot of hits. You might also want to go look back at the Big 8 of the 80s...you might see that it was one of, if not the, best conference during the decade...very few gimme games in conference. Heck, in 1988 the National Championship game which was won by KU (who we beat in Hilton) was between KU and OU.

Don't forget K State with Lon Kruger coaching and Duke as the other final four team. Talked to Lon at the final four 2 years ago and he said that was a long time ago.
 

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
How do you figure? McDermott was left with 4 scholarship players when he took over. How many did Orr have? I'm sure it was more than 4. I don't know how much lower you can get, frankly.

You don't see the program heading in the right direction? What are you looking at? I see the recruiting getting better, the play getting better and the fan optimism getting better. It may not show up in the record this year because we have a brutal schedule and nearly everyone in the Big XII returns nearly all their key players. But there is no question in my mind that it's better than when McDermott took over.

You seem to forget that ISU lost quite a few guys AFTER McDermott arrived. From most reports, he did not do much to try to retain these guys.

Right direction = year 1: 2-12, year 2: 5-9, year 3: 5-9.
Wrong direction = year 1: 6-10, year 2: 4-12, year 3: 4-13.

From my standpoint...it better show up in the record THIS year. I do happen to think that things look as good as they have on paper for us under McDermott for this year but we really have no place to go but up...do we? And next year looks like it may be another step back with the likely loss of Brackins and the loss of Gilstrap and Vanderbeken.
 

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
Nope.

Johnny was coming off a losing season in Year 3 after losing the final 6 games of the season. Expectations in Year 4 for Johnny were arguably less than what they are in Year 4 for GMac. There was plenty of doubt after Year 3 that Johnny was going to turn it around. Johnny's Year 4 produced a 16-13 record, 6-8 in conference, and a NIT berth. I think GMac has good chance to do better than that in Year 4.

And again, from a roster perspective, what GMac inherited was arguably worse than what Johnny inherited. GMac had only 4 players and none of them were guards.

And that post season play in year 4 under Johnny was the first post season play for ISU in FORTY YEARS! McDermott's predecessor was in the post season 2 of his 3 years.
 

Bipolarcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2008
2,966
1,771
113
You seem to forget that ISU lost quite a few guys AFTER McDermott arrived. From most reports, he did not do much to try to retain these guys.

Like there was anything he COULD do. If a guy makes up his mind to leave, there's not much you can do to dissuade him. The guys who left were waiting to see who was named coach and when it was G-Mac, they didn't think his style fit theirs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CycloneErik

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
Like there was anything he COULD do. If a guy makes up his mind to leave, there's not much you can do to dissuade him. The guys who left were waiting to see who was named coach and when it was G-Mac, they didn't think his style fit theirs.

Quality coaches make adjustments based upon their talent.
 

Cypwr

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2006
1,312
228
63
Ameskeny
No he had bigger offers. This is like the 4th history lesson of this thread for you. You probably had trouble in history class because you kept asking for something. The teach (me) would give it to you and then you would ask the same question again.

He was waiting for offers from North Carolina and Indiana. He had other D1 schools offer him. He liked Iowa State the best of the schools that offered him. He would have been a 3 star recruit. What part of this equation are you seriously not getting?
Didn't Hornacek work in a factory or something his first year out of high school before coming to ISU?
 

Bipolarcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2008
2,966
1,771
113
Quality coaches make adjustments based upon their talent.

Not when you don't have any talent. I sure hope no one judges you as harshly if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have nothing to work with but people expect the world in a hand basket. Geez. He had FOUR PLAYERS!
 

cyclonenum1

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2006
7,191
330
83
Not when you don't have any talent. I sure hope no one judges you as harshly if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have nothing to work with but people expect the world in a hand basket. Geez. He had FOUR PLAYERS!

How in the world did we win any games with just four players in McDermott's first year?

I find nothing objectionable with having high expectations and I am quite sick of the excuse making we have seen for the last three years by the McDermott supporters.