WVU Eliminating Degree Programs-Future of Higher Ed

ghyland7

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Huh that’s good to know, nothing like that in Michigan, unless it’s a newer program.

Edit* that is how it works for most private schools though
Idk, it’s possible that isn’t true and maybe it was just a thing for a few years when I was there.


Edit: here’s some info for current ISU admissions. In state students receive an automatic scholarship if they achieve certain test scores/GPA.

 
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cycloneG

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"Between FY 2013 and 2024, overall higher education funding in the state’s general revenue budget has declined by 24.3 percent, or $146.2 million, adjusting for inflation."
 

OscarBerkshire

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FriendlySpartan

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I really think this argument sounds good in theory but has little basis in reality.

The federal government created loan programs back in 1958, and then had other huge programs to federally back private student loans in 1965. Since the 60s we have gone back and forth between direct loans from the federal government OR allowing the federal government to back private loans (btw- the latter was the idea of Milton Friedman).

When you look at increases in tuition over time, they almost always coincide with economic recessions. I’m not going to sit here and tell you that 100% of all tuition increases are SOLELY because of cuts in state funding, but it’s certainly more tied to economic recessions and state spending than it is to availability of federal student loans.

I also am not trying to say that federal student loans are perfect, there are plenty of issues with them, and yeah, tuition is pretty out of control.

However, the blanket idea quoted by a lot of posters in this thread that somehow “the reason tuition increased is because the federal government is dumb” isn’t really accurate.

Is it probably true that colleges (especially now that cost burdens have shifted from states to individuals) rely on federal student loans? Yes. Is it true that middle management has increased in schools? Probably, yeah.. but fundamentally, tuition jumps aren’t because of greedy schools trying to fleece the unaware federal government, at least not most of the time.

I am not trying to say the federal government is infallible, and I don’t think that post secondary public education is in a great state, but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it’s primarily because of the existence of federal student loans.
I agree with a lot of this but sometimes the student loans get given out like candy without the appropriate education on what the loan really means. For example loans for study abroad programs. Nothing against study abroad, I did it a lot and had incredible experiences but many took out loans that they are still paying off just for the experience. If you add that on top of getting a major without a lot of career growth you are basically financing an international vacation.
 

madguy30

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This thread is long, and there are some good observations along with a lot of drek. Not going to opine on cutting programs (which may or may not be wise, depending). But one thing I would add here is that there imho the single biggest cause driving up costs is, ironically, an effort to make college more affordable.

Federal student loans.

Throwing money at the problem in this way creates 2 perverse incentives:
1) the state can cut funding and just let the feds give money to kids that in turn comes to the schools in state
2) the colleges can raise prices a lot because the students don't really care since payback is years away

Both of these in turn raise the overall cost to students. And the students are still on the hook for the cost - plus interest.

I struggled to find good data on student loan volumes, but here is one:
from 1995 to 2017 student debt increased from $187B to $1.4T. That's a 750% increase in 22 years (~10% annual, way more than inflation). Think that may have something to do with why college costs are also way above inflation.

You could argue that rising costs drive the loan amounts, but I truly think that is backwards. Think about it this way - if the feds ended student loan programs tomorrow, what would happen (after all the panic and angst that is)? Colleges would immediately look for ways to reduce and contain costs, so they could reduce charges to student to make sure they have enough students to cover those costs. Students would also immediately become a lot more price sensitive. The state would be forced to try to find more money for schools too.

I am not advocating ending all student loans, to be clear. Although some reductions/restrictions would be good (like don't let kids bury themselves with $100k debt for a lousy degree- make them do an ROI at least).
But how about this-- the Feds like to tie strings to money, so make it that only colleges that keep costs at or near core inflation are eligible for student loan funds. That would also incent the state to put more money in to lower costs, to leverage the federal money. Maybe I have not 100% thought this thru, but seems like that would create better incentives related to cost.

The current state is the feds write blank checks and we all wonder why both costs and student debt are going up.

I don't see states that have been cutting funding all of the sudden having incentive to kick in more funding.

Maybe at one time.
 
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ghyland7

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I agree with a lot of this but sometimes the student loans get given out like candy without the appropriate education on what the loan really means. For example loans for study abroad programs. Nothing against study abroad, I did it a lot and had incredible experiences but many took out loans that they are still paying off just for the experience. If you add that on top of getting a major without a lot of career growth you are basically financing an international vacation.
I definitely agree there just isn’t enough awareness or due diligence with regard to federal student loans.

I just don’t agree at all that rising tuition is primarily due to federally backed loans.
 

jcisuclones

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I earned my masters degree from WVU and at my graduation, I was blown away by all of the specific majors that could easily be condensed. Like I'm talking like 15 different types of engineering.
 

MeowingCows

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Can you back that stat up for public students? I have never heard anything like that before.
At a public university, roughly two-fifths of undergraduates pay full price, according to research by financial aid expert Mark Kantrowitz.

Those who graduated in 2020 from a ranked private college borrowed $32,029 on average, while public college graduates took out an average of $26,627.

It's worth noting that a larger share of private college attendees receive some sort of scholarships/etc (and I would expect that since they're under no requirement to take in lower-qualified applicants, unlike many publics), but their average loans taken out is still higher in the end. It's not like 90% of private school students are getting full rides.
 
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Cyrealist

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Generally they focus on non D1 athletes and try to entice HS kids to keep playing.
Sports, music nad other extracurriculars can be areas of excellence and recruiting tools. But they also often have academic areas of excellence as well.