Williams & Blum: Recapping a crazy 10 days

[CapnCy]

Because those scholarships are currently mandatory costs to having P4 football.

Until there aren’t requirements in how many sports needed to be D1 and Title IX, those costs have priority over other students

Fair.

It's just so messed up. I hate that young people are impacted (Olympic sports) and also fans.

Wish NCAA would have gotten ahead of this...we went down 0-60 so fast

 

[cycloneworld]

I think that's what stinks about all this is fb paid for all those sports and those kids are as hardworking and committed as by other students athletes.

But truly not trying to be a jerk, but why would the state or university pay for them? Why not pay for more national merit scholars? Or better fund the faculty and staff that the university also needs to continue to be a top school? Or ensure our facilities are maintained for all students?

Thanks, Blum, for all you have done (as it all is evolving) to help us stay as relevant as possible in the NIL landscape.

And to be clear, I totally am for a robust "school spirit" and experience athletics brings to my central iowa and to ISU.

The idea that the university cannot spend any money on athletics and that the AD must be 100% self sufficient is beyond stupid. It’s the university’s best marketing campaign and publicity driver and yet it cannot invest in athletics to grow. But am for some reason it can spend whatever it wants on choose your adventure ad buys…

The easy button here is that Iowa State University funds the shortfall for Iowa State athletics but our state does not allow Iowa or Iowa State to do that…why?

 

[FinalFourCy]

Fair.

It's just so messed up. I hate that young people are impacted (Olympic sports) and also fans.

Wish NCAA would have gotten ahead of this...we went down 0-60 so fast

The NCAA are the schools, and this has been bursting at the seams for awhile.

Decades of poor leadership across college athletics and administrations, simply getting theirs while fully embracing the prisoner’s dilemma

 

[WooBadger18]

Is this satire?

You have to know what segment of the market you’re competing in.

ISU’s path to a tenable, if not successful future, isn’t from doing the same things as those institutions

It would take many billions to implement and execute a strategy to compete in that segment

Meanwhile, it would take less than $50 million to make a huge difference in being competitive in the major-state-school-with-top-athletics segment

No, it’s not satire. I’m just saying that if our goal is to help the university as a whole and its academic mission it makes sense to fund that.

And it seems like some of these arguments are more cases of searching for reasons why the legislature should fund athletics, when the real reason is that we would just like them to fund athletics, regardless of if it helps the university.

Edit: for example, I’m upset at Iowa State losing its AAU status too, but the legislature providing monetary support to athletics isn’t going to bring back that membership

 

[CapnCy]

The idea that the university cannot spend any money on athletics and that the AD must be 100% self sufficient is beyond stupid. It’s the university’s best marketing campaign and publicity driver and yet it cannot invest in athletics to grow. But am for some reason it can spend whatever it wants on choose your adventure ad buys…

The easy button here is that Iowa State University funds the shortfall for Iowa State athletics but our state does not allow Iowa or Iowa State to do that…why?

I do agree that the brand and all that is moved forward with athletics (unless on ESPN+ as only true fans see that)

I just think that it is also a hard sell for many to pay millions to 19 year olds when other areas might need money from the state, etc

And I think the only way to "fund" that extra 20 million would be taking away from other places.

In your example...how much do other admissions marking cost with return of investment vs paying our men's bball team? Again, not trying to be a grump, but if only like 10 percent of students go to bball as an example or the same for FB, that still is only like 10 percent of students

I LOVE ISU sports and want us competitive ..but I also love ISU and just want any to be fair to the big picture.

Again, sucks this is where the pengalim swung

 

[OscarBerkshire]

Ames water.


Iowa State has already lost AAU in part because of a lack of support from the State/state. That’s just one example of losing status, as it’s up against institutions in other areas of the country ride the wave of economic growth (favorable demographics).

No longer being a peer in athletics would be a much more public devaluation of the brand

Lack of state support was super small, really the lack of research funding growth from the federal government besides for health research is what killed it. There just aren’t enough grants for non-medical research relative to the cost of performing it. Having a med school is a de facto requirement to be in the AAU due to their grant requirements that have been adjusted for inflation in the federal budget over the years… it was a miracle we kept it as long as we did and shows how productive Iowa state is as a research institution despite no medical school.

Basically the federal government has increased funding for medical research over the years while keeping non medical research funding roughly flat. As a result this puts pressure on the non-medical school having universities.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I do agree that the brand and all that is moved forward with athletics (unless on ESPN+ as only true fans see that)

I just think that it is also a hard sell for many to pay millions to 19 year olds when other areas might need money from the state, etc

And I think the only way to "fund" that extra 20 million would be taking away from other places.

In your example...how much do other admissions marking cost with return of investment vs paying our men's bball team? Again, not trying to be a grump, but if only like 10 percent of students go to bball as an example or the same for FB, that still is only like 10 percent of students

I LOVE ISU sports and want us competitive ..but I also love ISU and just want any to be fair to the big picture.

Again, sucks this is where the pengalim swung

Whether they pay the players or not, the investment was needed

Our peers are about to make nearly double what we’ll get.

Personally, paying a top 21 year old player in basketball is no different than paying a coach $4 million. Jefferson will have as much of an impact as an older coach on next year’s success in a sport that directly generates $15 million, and indirectly much more.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Lack of state support was super small, really the lack of research funding growth from the federal government besides for health research is what killed it. There just aren’t enough grants for non-medical research relative to the cost of performing it. Having a med school is a de facto requirement to be in the AAU due to their grant requirements that have been adjusted for inflation in the federal budget over the years… it was a miracle we kept it as long as we did and shows how productive Iowa state is as a research institution despite no medical school.

As I said, in part.

If you’re going to maintain AAU without med research, you need to be a well-funded and well-regarded school that is crushing it. Holding off the schools that have climbed in status was going to take the State thinking of Iowa State as a priority

At Iowa State, funding has been weak, even having to survive a time in which some of the BOR wanted to strip reduce the university of many programs

 

[cycloneworld]

I do agree that the brand and all that is moved forward with athletics (unless on ESPN+ as only true fans see that)

I just think that it is also a hard sell for many to pay millions to 19 year olds when other areas might need money from the state, etc

And I think the only way to "fund" that extra 20 million would be taking away from other places.

In your example...how much do other admissions marking cost with return of investment vs paying our men's bball team? Again, not trying to be a grump, but if only like 10 percent of students go to bball as an example or the same for FB, that still is only like 10 percent of students

I LOVE ISU sports and want us competitive ..but I also love ISU and just want any to be fair to the big picture.

Again, sucks this is where the pengalim swung

I don’t think you can look at it so narrowly like “only 10% of students go to basketball games”. Iowa State athletics, and investing in them, brings overall more students and revenue to Iowa State. When Iowa State does well athletically, enrollment increases. So people that don’t care about athletics benefit as a result of successful ISU athletics.

A similar analogy is that a successful Ivy College of Business is good for ISU so engineering students should not complain that ISU is advertising for that area, even though engineering students won’t directly benefit. But the university overall definitely does. That’s the same for ISU athletics but multiple times more impactful.

 

[madguy30]

I agree that funding universities is important, but doesn’t it make more sense to increase funding to the universities’ academic missions as opposed to the athletics?

MIT and the Ivy League don’t have P5 athletics, but people don’t say those aren’t good schools. Cal was in the PAC-12 and now in the ACC, but doesn’t really care about sports, but they’re an excellent university. Universities overseas can be excellent (e.g. Oxford, Cambridge, the Sorbonne, Heidelberg, etc.) but they basically have intramurals or club sports, etc.

Those are schools that people really don't pay attention to.

Big time hoops and football were really never about academics but it sounded great for some people to cling on to.

 

[AuH2O]

I don’t think you can look at it so narrowly like “only 10% of students go to basketball games”. Iowa State athletics, and investing in them, brings overall more students and revenue to Iowa State. When Iowa State does well athletically, enrollment increases. So people that don’t care about athletics benefit as a result of successful ISU athletics.

A similar analogy is that a successful Ivy College of Business is good for ISU so engineering students should not complain that ISU is advertising for that area, even though engineering students won’t directly benefit. But the university overall definitely does. That’s the same for ISU athletics but multiple times more impactful.

Not sure how true this is. We have 6000 fewer students now than we did when Campbell took over.

 

[Cloneon]

Lack of state support was super small, really the lack of research funding growth from the federal government besides for health research is what killed it. There just aren’t enough grants for non-medical research relative to the cost of performing it. Having a med school is a de facto requirement to be in the AAU due to their grant requirements that have been adjusted for inflation in the federal budget over the years… it was a miracle we kept it as long as we did and shows how productive Iowa state is as a research institution despite no medical school.

Basically the federal government has increased funding for medical research over the years while keeping non medical research funding roughly flat. As a result this puts pressure on the non-medical school having universities.

IMO, Iowa State is poised to grow federal funding in the near future as I see a shift in the medical ideology. It's evident we are currently a society of systemic health problems. And due in large part to what we permit in our food supply. It's an ugly circle benefiting the medical, insurance, and pharmaceutical industries, but I see a shift towards 'preventative' research funding which places Iowa State in the driver's seat due their agricultural expertise. At least I hope so.

 

[alexssdean12]

What if the State or University paid for some of the Olympic sport scholarships?

I mean its not crazy. They are already paying for the sports at the high school level.

Maybe they could only cover Iowa high school graduates. Would incentivize recruiting around Iowa and be a win win for Iowa high school athletes and ISU's athletic department.

 

[Dgilbertson]

Agree to disagree. As one ISU faculty member put it to me today, if we lose power 4 sports, we may as well be the Dakota schools. Higher education has changed tremendously since the 80s and if you don’t see a value in high end sports for this area as a differentiator in choice for students, I’m not sure any argument I can make will change your mind.

Your winsomeness in the face of abject hostility is starting to annoy me Blum

 

[FinalFourCy]

Not sure how true this is. We have 6000 fewer students now than we did when Campbell took over.

I wonder how big of drop it would be if football had returned to the 80’s and 90’s futility

I wouldn’t expect enrollment boosts to be immediate, or even necessarily evident in the numbers themselves

 

[OscarBerkshire]

Not sure how true this is. We have 6000 fewer students now than we did when Campbell took over.

I wonder how big of drop it would be if football had returned to the 80’s and 90’s futility

I wouldn’t expect enrollment boosts to be immediate, or even necessarily evident in the numbers themselves

That is a bad way to look at it. Throughout his entire tenure enrollment rates and total eligible enrollees have declined nationally. To get a true estimate of the impact of specifically Matt Campbell on enrollment, we would need to do some natural experiment approach, a la difference-in-differences or regression discontinuity. Source: master's in Applied/Ag Economics from THE Iowa State University

 

[tigercy]

The idea that the university cannot spend any money on athletics and that the AD must be 100% self sufficient is beyond stupid. It’s the university’s best marketing campaign and publicity driver and yet it cannot invest in athletics to grow. But am for some reason it can spend whatever it wants on choose your adventure ad buys…

The easy button here is that Iowa State University funds the shortfall for Iowa State athletics but our state does not allow Iowa or Iowa State to do that…why?

Framing it as the state "funding athletic" or "covering a shortfall" in athletics is the wrong argument and will generally lose in the public eyes. I would simply say that the state (ie the universities) need to pay athletics for the fair market value of the advertising that they receive (ie television exposure). Think about what golfers get paid to wear a logo, or F1 teams receive for brand exposure. The university (ie the state) gets a free ride on the F1 team that is ISU athletics. Even half of the fair value of the exposure (arguing that athletics "owes" the university for use of name) would likely easily cover any shortfall.

 

[Cyrok]

Not sure how true this is. We have 6000 fewer students now than we did when Campbell took over.

Isn’t college attendance dropping across the nation? You’d have to account for whatever other factors are at play and then assess Campbell’s value relative to other coaches in comparable situations.

 

[NENick]

Such a simplistic view

Taxpayers already have a stake. The State and state can either invest in the asset that is Iowa State athletics, continuing to make money off of it, or they can starve their asset so it’s not competitive in the market, and lose the future revenue

What economic generator replaces Iowa State athletics, let alone the overall decline from the university falling behind peers?

And who pays for the infrastructure and operating costs for those replacement revenue generators? Taxpayers, with much less ROI.

The State and local municipalities want to be free riders of ISU athletics. That should not be allowed

Sorry if this proves I'm a dope, but what do you mean when you use "The State and state," as you have in many posts?

 

[jackrabbit]

That is a bad way to look at it. Throughout his entire tenure enrollment rates and total eligible enrollees have declined nationally. To get a true estimate of the impact of specifically Matt Campbell on enrollment, we would need to do some natural experiment approach, a la difference-in-differences or regression discontinuity. Source: master's in Applied/Ag Economics from THE Iowa State University

One part of the drop in enrollment numbers is the drop in international students. In 2015 ISU had about 4,125 international students. This year, according to google, ISU had 2,878. A drop of 1,247 students. That accounts for 20% of the 6,000 drop in enrollment number mentioned above. It's also a drop of 30% of the total international student number from 2015.