Welfare outrage
- Thread starter joepublic
- Start date
Does anyone know what percentage of trucks (SUVs included, since they get the truck discount) in Iowa are owned by farmers? I realize there are a lot of farmers, but is there really that many more than the non-farmers? This law may be doing more harm (losing revenue from non-farmers) than good (giving farmers a bit of a break).
I think one thing that many fail to realize is that we have an agriculture based economy, and I'm not just talking here in the Midwest. When the agriculture industry is struggling, it won't be long before the rest of the nation's economy is in a rut as well. The last recession that we had was predicated by a few tough years for farmers.
I think that there are enough high-up's that understand this to keep anything drastic from happening.
That being said, I do believe they need to have a bit more control of how the money is being used, and where it is going to.
I think that there are enough high-up's that understand this to keep anything drastic from happening.
That being said, I do believe they need to have a bit more control of how the money is being used, and where it is going to.
Maybe that's why we need to focus a little less on agriculture. I'm at a complete loss why we have given money to any farmers in the last few years when the market is good. When is the last time you've seen the state give money to a small business that was down on it's luck let alone one that is doing well?
Ethanol is another joke that is going to leave Iowa in a pickle. They just put in E85 at the local gas station. It is 2.65 a gallon and that's probably with a big break. Lets see how my math is.
E85 gets about 20% less MPG
20 gallons of gas
Car gets 25mpg on straight gas
Car gets 20mpg on E85 (20% less)
Cost to go 500 miles
20x$2.99=$59.80
25x$2.65=$66.25
So it costs you $6.45 more per 500 miles
Average driver 15K miles per year=$193.50 more per year
This is even after it's subsidized.:no6xn:
Oh by the way, your food prices are also going to go up.
At the same time you hear very little about biodiesel, hydrogen, etc.
Unless you're looking for a luxury car, you should be able to find an average sedan with 150hp that gets 30mpg. My wifes Accord EX-L has a 4cyl/160hp that is plenty fast and gets good gas mileage.
One thing that does surprise me is how lousy of gas mileage some of the low horsepower compacts get. It's nearly impossible to find a sub-compact that gets 40mpg while 20 years ago they were easy to find. I guess the sub compacts have gotten bigger and heavier for the American market. Maybe Chevy should bring back the Metro, then again maybe not.
I agree with those who believe farm subsidies are ridiculous.
Besides the farm program, you have the ethanol mandate, the ethanol subsidy, and the tariff on imported ethanol. It encourages production on marginal land (which then serves as a primary policy rationale for federal conservation subsidies). It has helped drive cattle production out of Iowa.
All of this gets capitalized into land prices. The idea that self-serving politicians know better how to allocate resources than market-determined prices is utter nonsense.
With all the competing uses, now more than ever is when market prices should be making the call.
Instead Americans will probably get new cellulistic ethanol subsidies from the Bolshevists in Washington. Word is that under the current Five Year Plan everyone will instead want to grow corn.
Besides the farm program, you have the ethanol mandate, the ethanol subsidy, and the tariff on imported ethanol. It encourages production on marginal land (which then serves as a primary policy rationale for federal conservation subsidies). It has helped drive cattle production out of Iowa.
All of this gets capitalized into land prices. The idea that self-serving politicians know better how to allocate resources than market-determined prices is utter nonsense.
With all the competing uses, now more than ever is when market prices should be making the call.
Instead Americans will probably get new cellulistic ethanol subsidies from the Bolshevists in Washington. Word is that under the current Five Year Plan everyone will instead want to grow corn.
What what what???? where am I going to get my tofu from? I need something to go with my wine and cheese when I tailgate with the EIU snobs.
SUV's do not get a discount. I have a Ford Explorer and I have to pay about $325/year. The truck discount is going away also. I think it starts next year. Trucks 2007 or 2008 and older are 'grandfathered' into the discount program but all new 2009 (?) trucks will pay what they should. I do not know if there is a clause though if you can prove it is a farm truck and you continue to receive the discount.
Here is a good article on what our comrades at the Des Moines Register will be looking to Americans to pay for next: Omaha.com Business Section
The Future is Not Now for Biomass Ethanol Industry
Omaha World-Herald
March 23, 2007
The logistics of collecting and storing a million tons of corn stubble each year for an ethanol refinery are mind-numbing...
The Future is Not Now for Biomass Ethanol Industry
Omaha World-Herald
March 23, 2007
The logistics of collecting and storing a million tons of corn stubble each year for an ethanol refinery are mind-numbing...
FEE had another post today on farm subsidies:
http://www.fee.org/in_brief/default.asp?id=1454
Check out the April 2006 article (pdf), “The Origin of American Farm Subsidies,†by historian Burt Folsom, Jr. Here is a quote from Secretary of Agriculture J. Sterling Morton, during the 1890s recession:
http://www.fee.org/in_brief/default.asp?id=1454
Check out the April 2006 article (pdf), “The Origin of American Farm Subsidies,†by historian Burt Folsom, Jr. Here is a quote from Secretary of Agriculture J. Sterling Morton, during the 1890s recession:
Furthermore, when beet-sugar producers came to Washington eager for some kind of special help, Morton said, “Those who raise corn should not be taxed to encourage those who desire to raise beets. The power to tax was never vested in a Government for the purpose of building up one class at the expense of other classes.â€
And from President Calvin Coolidge’s veto message of the 1920s McNary-Haugen bill:
Coolidge then added, “There is no reason why other industries—copper, coal, lumber, textiles, and others—in every occasional difficulty should not receive the same treatment by the Government.†He concluded, “Such action would establish bureaucracy on such a scale as to dominate not only the economic life but the moral, social, and political future of our people.â€
Boy have we got some misinformation on this thread. I will attempt to help brains think clearly.
1. E85 costing more then gasoline. Yes you are correct right now as a result of demand exceeding supply. As more plants come on line, supply will catch up and that will cause E85 to come down in price. Plus it gets us a little more independent from foreign oil. They also have to come up with a way to transport the product since it cannot be piped since it causes condensation in the pipelines so right now it gets hauled everywhere by either truck or railcar. I am certain they will fix that as well.
2. Ethanol has caused cattle production to leave the state? Please......cattle production was out of the state way before the last 5 yrs when the ethanol surge started.
3. Subsidy payments up until 2 yrs ago are what keep farmers net income in the black. We americans want cheap food and so the gov't set up the subsidy payments to keep commodity prices low and yet keep the farmer in business. Most of the subsidy payments are commodity price influence so with the good prices the last 2 yrs there have not been near the "welfare checks" as you call them. The article you link shows there are abusers of the system and I don't have a lot of sympathy for them, but they have set payment limits for certain payments as well. As a result, we have cheaper food prices. I'll guarantee you if there was not a government program, our food prices would be higher. And you can argue about it all you want, but the ag economy is pretty much the initiator of how the rest of the american economy flows thereafter. Most recessions and/or depressions were started by farm economy problems.
4. When the $65 truck registration was made law, 95% of all truck purchases were for farm use. As time passed by, manufacturers started dressing up the pickups and buyers caught onto the $65 law and have taken advantage of it. As someone stated above, that is going by by within a few years so that won't be an issue any longer.
1. E85 costing more then gasoline. Yes you are correct right now as a result of demand exceeding supply. As more plants come on line, supply will catch up and that will cause E85 to come down in price. Plus it gets us a little more independent from foreign oil. They also have to come up with a way to transport the product since it cannot be piped since it causes condensation in the pipelines so right now it gets hauled everywhere by either truck or railcar. I am certain they will fix that as well.
2. Ethanol has caused cattle production to leave the state? Please......cattle production was out of the state way before the last 5 yrs when the ethanol surge started.
3. Subsidy payments up until 2 yrs ago are what keep farmers net income in the black. We americans want cheap food and so the gov't set up the subsidy payments to keep commodity prices low and yet keep the farmer in business. Most of the subsidy payments are commodity price influence so with the good prices the last 2 yrs there have not been near the "welfare checks" as you call them. The article you link shows there are abusers of the system and I don't have a lot of sympathy for them, but they have set payment limits for certain payments as well. As a result, we have cheaper food prices. I'll guarantee you if there was not a government program, our food prices would be higher. And you can argue about it all you want, but the ag economy is pretty much the initiator of how the rest of the american economy flows thereafter. Most recessions and/or depressions were started by farm economy problems.
4. When the $65 truck registration was made law, 95% of all truck purchases were for farm use. As time passed by, manufacturers started dressing up the pickups and buyers caught onto the $65 law and have taken advantage of it. As someone stated above, that is going by by within a few years so that won't be an issue any longer.
I agree with the oil independence but not so much with some of the other statements.
Why is demand exceeding supply and what makes you think that supply will ever catch up. How many people use E85 right now? I doubt it's even 1%. We could turn the whole nation into one big corn field and it wouldn't be enough.
E85 can't compete right now and it's getting subsidized. As a taxpayer maybe I want to subsidize something that will actually remove our oil dependence. Lets remove the subsidizes and see how it does on it's own.
Can someone provide a link to this because I don't believe that it is true. I believe the DOT was trying to get this changed but our elected officials voted otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong?
Ethanol mandates AND farm programs subsidies helped drive cattle production out of Iowa. You don't think subsidizing crops (but not cattle) didn't and doesn't encourage row crop production in Iowa?
And now, and in the past, millions of acres being idled at federal taxpayer expense?
Food would still be grown without any subsidies. Farm subsidies get capitalized into land prices and rent. The price of land (and rents) would adjust. That Americans should have to subsidize Iowa row crop production because agriculture drives the national economy is pure nonsense. No doubt there would be some adjustment - growing to meet the demands of the marketplace instead of government - but talk about misinformation.
And now, and in the past, millions of acres being idled at federal taxpayer expense?
Food would still be grown without any subsidies. Farm subsidies get capitalized into land prices and rent. The price of land (and rents) would adjust. That Americans should have to subsidize Iowa row crop production because agriculture drives the national economy is pure nonsense. No doubt there would be some adjustment - growing to meet the demands of the marketplace instead of government - but talk about misinformation.
So if this makes sense how about we subsidize Pizza Hut? Does it make sense to take $4 of my tax money so that my pizza will cost $3 less?
So if we stopped the subsidy payments what would happen?- Prices would go up.
Would it end up costing me more than what I pay in taxes ? If so how does that math work?
Would some small farms go out of business?-Probably. Just like 75% of all restaurants fail in the first 5 years. It's called a small business
UUUMMMMM.....Cattle production has been out of Iowa for at least 15 yrs in the row crop intensive part of the state. The ethanol surge started on a major scale 3-4 yrs ago. Ya, I'll stick by my statement that Ethanol did NOT drive cattle production out of the state. I agree that gov't row crop subsidies did help drive out cattle, but that wasn't mentioned in the post I referred to earlier.
Yes......misinformation
Whatever. Here is that paragraph from my initial post:
"Besides the farm program, you have the ethanol mandate, the ethanol subsidy, and the tariff on imported ethanol. It encourages production on marginal land (which then serves as a primary policy rationale for federal conservation subsidies). It has helped drive cattle production out of Iowa."
Do you know what the term "farm program" encompasses?
