The future of the Vikings at QB

[cyfan92]

Brady could lead the league in annual pay twice over and still not touch his wife's bankroll. Easy decision for him.

Common mistake. She hasn't been a top paid model for awhile. She really missed out on the Instagram generation

Now the internet says she still made $10M last year and over her career it has been Hundreds of millions. But Tom still takes pays cuts because he wants to WIN

 

[jbindm]

As far as future QBs go, I still wish the Vikings would've bought up Josh Rosen cheaply and early and sat him behind Cousins until his contract is up, then go from there. I would still hope they get a project guy sooner than later. A year or two to sit and adjust to the game never hurts versus playing a rookie QB from week 1.

As football situations go Rosen could not have had worse luck to start out his career. He went from the worst situation in the NFL in 2018 to the worst situation in the NFL in 2019. If/when he struggles in Miami it'll be impossible to tell if it's because he's a bust or if he's just landed in places where he's set up to fail.

 

[jbindm]

Common mistake. She hasn't been a top paid model for awhile. She really missed out on the Instagram generation

Now the internet says she still made $10M last year and over her career it has been Hundreds of millions. But Tom still takes pays cuts because he wants to WIN

And because the Pats indirectly pay him through their "partnership" with TB12, which is somehow not a cap violation.

And I'd also bet there's an under the table agreement between him and Kraft that will allow Brady to buy into an NFL franchise at a discount when his playing days are over.

 

[AuH2O]

We all know they overpaid for Kirk Cousins. Don't get me wrong, Cousins is a decent QB, but he got paid elite QB money and he is not an elite player. With two years left on his contract, Rick Spielman needs to start thinking about what he is going to do in 2021 and beyond, when Cousins is gone. Look at the history the Vikings have had at the position, it is not impressive. I don't even remember the last time they had a true franchise QB. Before Christian Ponder (probably the worst decision Spielman has ever made), it was mostly old veterans that played with the team for a couple years - Favre, Moon, Jeff George, Cunningham etc. The younger players never seemed to work out. Ponder was a 4th-5th round guy that somehow Spielman saw as a 1st rounder. We all know how that turned out. Teddy B was playing pretty well but got hurt. That was just bad luck, but I still never saw him as a "star" QB in the NFL. And then there was the trade of a 1st round pick for Sam Bradford. Decent QB but the guy could never stay healthy and behind Minnesota's o-line he was doomed.

So that is three 1st round picks in the last 8 years for three QB's that are all no longer on the team. The Vikings QB's, again, have mostly been veterans that are only with the team for a short period of time. Cousins, Keenum, Bradford, Cassel... the list goes on and on. As a lifelong Vikings fan, I want to see some stability at the most important position in the game. Plenty of other teams have done it. Hell, Green Bay has had two HoF QB's in a row and between the two of them have been the teams' starters since 1992. That's 27 years!!

What options do the Vikings have to make this happen? I am only a fan, and although I am a huge football nerd, I have no qualifications, only opinions, when it comes to such things. So here is what I propose...

Trade a starting cornerback for a 2021 1st round pick. Make the trade with a team the will have an early-mid pick. A team that could use some good veterans on defense. Miami, perhaps. They have some holes on defense and now have extra 2021 draft picks... Offer them Xavier Rhodes, Everson Griffen and a 4th round 2020 pick in exchange for a 2021 1st round pick. Losing Rhodes would hurt, but the Vikings have some young corners that they think are going to be good - Holton Hill and Mike Hughes specifically. Griffen would be a bigger loss being that there is less depth at his position, but I have liked what I have seen out of Stephen Weatherly, and feel that he did a good job starting when Griffen was out last year. Maybe trade Weatherly along with corner Trae Waynes if Miami wants younger players?

THEN during the 2020 draft, put the word out that you want to trade your 1st round pick and see what offers come in. There are alays teams willing to trade up. Get a 1st round pick in the 2021 draft in return, giving you three 1st rounders for 2021 and use those picks to trade up and get the #1 overall pick and take Trevor Lawrence. The 1st rounder from Miami would most likely be a top 5 pick and may even be #1, in which case there would be no need to trade up, obviously. And even with a top 5 or top 10 pick, I doubt you would have to give up all three 1st rounders to trade up to #1, so more than likely you would not only have the #1 pick, but also a later 1st round pick, which could be used to upgrade the o-line or to get a #3 WR.

I just feel that Lawrence has the most potential of any QB prospect since Andrew Luck, and I think the Vikings need to do whatever they can to draft this kid and finally have a franchise QB. Set things in motion to have a great offense for him to step into - make moves to improve the o-line and get more weapons behind Diggs and Thielen and give Lawrence the best chance to be succesful right away.

Thoughts?

Trading up to get Lawrence is not happening for the reason you state. He'll be the most coveted prospect since Luck, if not more. If by the off chance a team is willing to trade for that pick, you'd have to give up so much that you can't even field a respectable team. You'd get him killed like Luck or David Carr.

Absolutely agree on Rhodes, and I think I've harped on it in every Vikings thread. He still has some value, but even in games he's active he is always missing a series here and there because he's dinged up. He's been a terrific player, but the young corners have shown well, and you can't pay Xavier huge $ to play part-time.

I'm not terribly down on Cousins. The OL drafting, free agency, and injury luck has been atrocious. If they can finally get some decent play from the OL and keep OL and Cook on the field, I think Cousins can be very good. People like to say "he's not a winner," but that's really an oversimplification. He had trash teams around him in Washington, and his last couple years there the injuries to the team were absolutely unbelievable, and there were major problems with the Vikings that went beyond Cousins.

At this point given the contracts they have to Cousins and some of the guys on defense, they're going to try to win this year and next, then see what happens.

 

[AuH2O]

And because the Pats indirectly pay him through their "partnership" with TB12, which is somehow not a cap violation.

And I'd also bet there's an under the table agreement between him and Kraft that will allow Brady to buy into an NFL franchise at a discount when his playing days are over.

I'll go out on a limb and Brady is probably also the only QB who is the secondary breadwinner in his household. That doesn't hurt.

 

[Jmarsh13]

The worst place to be in the NFL is not knowing if you have an elite QB when contract extensions come up. Way too easy to get locked into a $30/mil per year contract for a decent QB that is good enough to get you to playoffs but no where near good enough to win the Super Bowl.

Look at the Cowboys this year with Dak Prescott. They are throwing out numbers north of $30 mil/yr. Going to have to trim a lot off the OL / DL and secondary to fit that number under the cap. Which then exposes an average QB when you decimate the rest of the roster...

 

[3GenClone]

Rick Spielman has been the best Vikings GM in my lifetime (may not be saying much) and I have loved the way he has scouted/drafted. I think Minnesota has to draft a QB in 2020, regardless of how Cousins performs this season. There's no long-term backup in place if Cousins gets hurt or to bail the Vikings out after year 3 of his current contract. I would much rather see the Vikings continue to rebuild their offensive line and take a QB in round 2 or 3.

I think the NFC North is in for a power-shift in about 2-3 years anyway:

I think Luck's early retirement is going to trickle-down to other QBs. I could see Stafford walk away as early as the end of this season as his wife just underwent brain surgery earlier this year.

I'm also 50-50 on Rodgers hanging it up at the end of his current contract - I could see him calling it quits and riding off a hero like Packers fans wishes Favre would have done, but I can also see him playing into his 40s, and perhaps even for a franchise out West (LA Chargers?). Rodgers contract continues to limit what the Packers can do financially and I don't think the GB front office wants to do another extension.

If Cousins does well, the Vikings would be the perceived top of the division and have their skill position players locked in to contracts into 2024. If Cousins blows it, then all sorts of controversies start to bubble up, such as possible changes at GM &/or HC and identifying the next QB.

The freaking Chicago Bears actually seem to be the best roster to make it through the long-term. I don't think Trubisky is a top-10 QB but he's at least shown he's capable to lead the talent that's on the roster.

 

[SCyclone]

I have a really hard time looking at his Skins numbers for anything useful, as the Vikings teams he's on now is by far and away better than any Redskins team he played on. The only place where that isn't really true is the OL.

That being said, what's frustrating for the Vikings is that they don't need Cousins to be a world-beater. If he regularly played games at even a consistent, game-manager level, the Vikings would win often with defense to back that up. Last year, going through the OCs created a lot of problems there, as well as garbage OL play. I want to believe the coaching of those areas is now improved, but the OL has a lot to prove, and they need to do it now.

All of the pieces are there. Diggs and Theilen are nuts. Cook is nuts when healthy. Defense again looks very strong, sans some depth lacking at CB. Cousins just needs to be "okay to goodish" for them to be at a top-tier team. This is exactly what Keenum excelled at for us -- he was able to keep games flowing without the need to carry the entire team on his back, ...but some of that was done with his feet dodging defenders. That skill is not nearly as good with Cousins. OL has to help out there.

As far as future QBs go, I still wish the Vikings would've bought up Josh Rosen cheaply and early and sat him behind Cousins until his contract is up, then go from there. I would still hope they get a project guy sooner than later. A year or two to sit and adjust to the game never hurts versus playing a rookie QB from week 1.

If that's true, then why in the he!! are they paying him like one?

 

[SCyclone]

Brady could lead the league in annual pay twice over and still not touch his wife's bankroll. Easy decision for him.

I'm sure Kraft is finding all kinds of ways to supplement Brady's pathetic salary.

 

[Rabbuk]

And because the Pats indirectly pay him through their "partnership" with TB12, which is somehow not a cap violation.

And I'd also bet there's an under the table agreement between him and Kraft that will allow Brady to buy into an NFL franchise at a discount when his playing days are over.

Because Patriots

 

[MeowingCows]

If that's true, then why in the he!! are they paying him like one?

'Cuz they weren't getting him otherwise, and nobody else of major value was available. Cousins had good stats on his side and easily-visible potential, plus the benefit of doubt for playing on s***ty Washington teams. He was viewed as both imperfect, yet untapped. Vikings were in win-now mode, and still are.

In hindsight, it was the correct choice. Keenum regressed horribly. None of his backups turned into much. Didn't get to keep Teddy before, who is still not starting. Bradford is unemployed last I saw. Cousins contract was seen as bad for being fully-guaranteed, but it was short term to combat that and is rapidly dropping down the list of most-expensive QBs out there. Unfortunately, he (and the whole team, really) largely underachieved last year -- and that was dealt with via multiple coaching changes on the problematic ends (OC, OL, ST).

What was the better alternative? Moreover, have the Redskins been better off without him?

 

[clone52]

Would I like a better QB than Cousins? Of course, but its not like him signing that contract has really cost them in losing other free agents. Spielman is a salary cap wizard.

 

[CyHans]

We all know they overpaid for Kirk Cousins. Don't get me wrong, Cousins is a decent QB, but he got paid elite QB money and he is not an elite player. With two years left on his contract, Rick Spielman needs to start thinking about what he is going to do in 2021 and beyond, when Cousins is gone. Look at the history the Vikings have had at the position, it is not impressive. I don't even remember the last time they had a true franchise QB. Before Christian Ponder (probably the worst decision Spielman has ever made), it was mostly old veterans that played with the team for a couple years - Favre, Moon, Jeff George, Cunningham etc. The younger players never seemed to work out. Ponder was a 4th-5th round guy that somehow Spielman saw as a 1st rounder. We all know how that turned out. Teddy B was playing pretty well but got hurt. That was just bad luck, but I still never saw him as a "star" QB in the NFL. And then there was the trade of a 1st round pick for Sam Bradford. Decent QB but the guy could never stay healthy and behind Minnesota's o-line he was doomed.

So that is three 1st round picks in the last 8 years for three QB's that are all no longer on the team. The Vikings QB's, again, have mostly been veterans that are only with the team for a short period of time. Cousins, Keenum, Bradford, Cassel... the list goes on and on. As a lifelong Vikings fan, I want to see some stability at the most important position in the game. Plenty of other teams have done it. Hell, Green Bay has had two HoF QB's in a row and between the two of them have been the teams' starters since 1992. That's 27 years!!

What options do the Vikings have to make this happen? I am only a fan, and although I am a huge football nerd, I have no qualifications, only opinions, when it comes to such things. So here is what I propose...

Trade a starting cornerback for a 2021 1st round pick. Make the trade with a team the will have an early-mid pick. A team that could use some good veterans on defense. Miami, perhaps. They have some holes on defense and now have extra 2021 draft picks... Offer them Xavier Rhodes, Everson Griffen and a 4th round 2020 pick in exchange for a 2021 1st round pick. Losing Rhodes would hurt, but the Vikings have some young corners that they think are going to be good - Holton Hill and Mike Hughes specifically. Griffen would be a bigger loss being that there is less depth at his position, but I have liked what I have seen out of Stephen Weatherly, and feel that he did a good job starting when Griffen was out last year. Maybe trade Weatherly along with corner Trae Waynes if Miami wants younger players?

THEN during the 2020 draft, put the word out that you want to trade your 1st round pick and see what offers come in. There are alays teams willing to trade up. Get a 1st round pick in the 2021 draft in return, giving you three 1st rounders for 2021 and use those picks to trade up and get the #1 overall pick and take Trevor Lawrence. The 1st rounder from Miami would most likely be a top 5 pick and may even be #1, in which case there would be no need to trade up, obviously. And even with a top 5 or top 10 pick, I doubt you would have to give up all three 1st rounders to trade up to #1, so more than likely you would not only have the #1 pick, but also a later 1st round pick, which could be used to upgrade the o-line or to get a #3 WR.

I just feel that Lawrence has the most potential of any QB prospect since Andrew Luck, and I think the Vikings need to do whatever they can to draft this kid and finally have a franchise QB. Set things in motion to have a great offense for him to step into - make moves to improve the o-line and get more weapons behind Diggs and Thielen and give Lawrence the best chance to be succesful right away.

You forgot Dante Culpepper, he put up massive numbers throwing to Carter and bombs to Moss then blew his knee out and never was the same.

Thoughts?

 

[Sigmapolis]

And because the Pats indirectly pay him through their "partnership" with TB12, which is somehow not a cap violation.

And I'd also bet there's an under the table agreement between him and Kraft that will allow Brady to buy into an NFL franchise at a discount when his playing days are over.

I am pretty sure LeBron and the Lakers have something going on like this.

 

[SCyclone]

'Cuz they weren't getting him otherwise, and nobody else of major value was available. Cousins had good stats on his side and easily-visible potential, plus the benefit of doubt for playing on s***ty Washington teams. He was viewed as both imperfect, yet untapped. Vikings were in win-now mode, and still are.

In hindsight, it was the correct choice. Keenum regressed horribly. None of his backups turned into much. Didn't get to keep Teddy before, who is still not starting. Bradford is unemployed last I saw. Cousins contract was seen as bad for being fully-guaranteed, but it was short term to combat that and is rapidly dropping down the list of most-expensive QBs out there. Unfortunately, he (and the whole team, really) largely underachieved last year -- and that was dealt with via multiple coaching changes on the problematic ends (OC, OL, ST).

What was the better alternative? Moreover, have the Redskins been better off without him?

The Redskins weren't about to pay him the kind of money the Vikings did. I would imagine they knew what they had, and decided that kind of money was better spent elsewhere. (I'm not going to get into an argument whether that was the correct choice.)

If you had a choice right now, today, between Cousins and Trubisky, who would you take? (And yes, I know that wasn't an option for the Vikings, I'm just wondering.)

 

[MeowingCows]

The Redskins weren't about to pay him the kind of money the Vikings did. I would imagine they knew what they had, and decided that kind of money was better spent elsewhere. (I'm not going to get into an argument whether that was the correct choice.)

If you had a choice right now, today, between Cousins and Trubisky, who would you take? (And yes, I know that wasn't an option for the Vikings, I'm just wondering.)

I don't think Trubisky really fits the offense we tried to run last year. He maybe could've been tweaked in this year with Stefanski taking over a lot of it, but as far as I know now, we don't look for a dual-threat guy (we pretty much had that in Teddy before...) -- we'd rather have a dependable arm, even if it's on a pocket guy. That's Cousins, he wins the passing battle against Trubisky all day long.

That being said, Trubisky plays in a favorable system for his playstyle with a very good head coach, so he still has plenty of room to succeed and grow. He also isn't asked to be a world-beater, he does well enough to get by and executes his offense. Meanwhile, Cousins has the lowest amount of time from snap to pressure in the NFL, took a whooping 40 sacks last season, and still threw 600 times last season.

He and Cousins both seem well-placed in the "average QB" area, maybe slightly above.

 

[moores2]

Or just tank for Trevor Lawrence...

 

[cyfan92]

The Redskins weren't about to pay him the kind of money the Vikings did. I would imagine they knew what they had, and decided that kind of money was better spent elsewhere. (I'm not going to get into an argument whether that was the correct choice.)

If you had a choice right now, today, between Cousins and Trubisky, who would you take? (And yes, I know that wasn't an option for the Vikings, I'm just wondering.)

Mitch has 2 years left of DIRT CHEAP contract left. That is why you take him. But, for building a team for 5+ years I have to think more.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-rankings-nfl-starting-quarterback-rankings-for-2019

PFF says Cousins by a not so small margin

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Man there is a lot of mediocre QBs on that list. Bad teams are forced to over pay in hopes of finding the next elite QB. Lots of misses.

We are at the end of an era as far as QB's go. Look at the dudes will all retire in a 5-7 year window ... Those are some big shoes to fill.

 

[MeowingCows]

Mitch has 2 years left of DIRT CHEAP contract left. That is why you take him. But, for building a team for 5+ years I have to think more.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-rankings-nfl-starting-quarterback-rankings-for-2019

PFF says Cousins by a not so small margin

In accordance with what PFF indicates, if the rumor of more play action/bootleg pass plays in the Vikings offense holds true, Cousins should be much more unleashed this year to send downfield and make riskier throws... unless his OL is, once again, just that bad.