No doubt even a threat to leave by either OU or Texas would shake up the conference and bring about changes. A one loss Big 12 team getting shut out of the play-offs could do it.
The Formula to Win at Iowa State
- Thread starter Havs
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No doubt even a threat to leave by either OU or Texas would shake up the conference and bring about changes. A one loss Big 12 team getting shut out of the play-offs could do it.
That all makes sense; totally understandable. However, teams used to see the triple option all the time 20 years ago, so defenses were geared towards stopping the option attack (especially in the Big 8). If you ran it now, you would be the one teams these schools saw every year that was running the triple option. Might have somewhat of an advantage in that regard.
You do not need elite running backs to make the triple option effective. You need a disciplined team and quick linemen.
Good stuff as usual jbh. Facts, reason and evidence. Probably upsetting to unbalanced, obsessive people.
The first thing we need to do is lighten up the schedule considerably. We can't do anything about 9 conference games and don't have enough influence to push for expansion. But we need to schedule three absolute cupcakes in the non-conference schedule. If we are going to play FCS teams, we need to play horrible ones, not upper level ones. At one point, we needed UNI (and Iowa for that matter) to sell tickets. We are past that point as long as we win.
Win in three non-cons while staying healthy and then pick off 3-4 conference wins and you go bowling. We can do that on a regular basis but we have to help ourselves first. Toledo should be the best team we play in our three, not the worst. No more complaining about the schedule when we do that to ourselves.
Set ourselves up to win and then work on next steps like recruiting, etc.
Win in three non-cons while staying healthy and then pick off 3-4 conference wins and you go bowling. We can do that on a regular basis but we have to help ourselves first. Toledo should be the best team we play in our three, not the worst. No more complaining about the schedule when we do that to ourselves.
Set ourselves up to win and then work on next steps like recruiting, etc.
You make good points but it's pretty sad when we have to be afraid to schedule UNI.
Our skill players have been much better than any FCS team we've played (except David Johnson). The problem is our offensive and defensive lines have not been able to impose their will up front. When we ran the ball successfully against FCS opponents, we won with ease. When we were forced into being one dimensional, (ie: late game heroics by Jantz) we have struggled big time.
This will be the case with whoever we play. There's no gimme games when you aren't very good.
This will be the case with whoever we play. There's no gimme games when you aren't very good.
The fact that you are quoting tornado mac as your inspiration is pretty telling about the quality of this argument. This is a guy that when everyone loved CPR advised how mac knew how good he was and that was why he hired him. Or how awesome Yancy McKnight was, now that he had a couple midmajor classes go through and there wasn't enough there to elevate them to Big 12 level players. i have a pretty good feeling whoever coaches these guys next year will be lauded for their ability to develop players now that they have more raw talent to work with (just a hunch though).
Second, which argument is it that you want to have at this time. You go from a Johnny Orr type hire, as the main point. Fine, remember what that would take.
But since all the argument you really want to make is "fire the coach" Let's make sure that all of the FACTS are on the table about that. IDGAF about firing him, hell fire him tonight for all I care. But until the commitment to the program is truly made, we will be here again in 5 years.
You don't think KState gave LHCBS everything he wanted? or Iowa gave Fry everything he wanted, or Alvarez everything he wanted? I think you know the answer to this is yes.
Do you think CPR has been given everything he wanted here? Of course they haven't. Now JP is trying to play catch up the best he can before the chopping block comes around again, and we have to sit back and let the important schools in our conference decide whether or not to keep us around.
EDIT: By the way, good job of dishonestly presenting budget information. I would say I am shocked, but the method by which you try to argue shows that silly little things like facts aren't your friend.
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Manziel was a special player but he wasn't "one special player that turned it around" for A&M. Here are the draft picks for the two years he played there. Five players in the first 3 rounds including four 1's. BTW, Manziel would not have been a 1 if he hadn't asked his "buddy" to call in a favor to Cleveland.
| 2014 | 1 | 6 | Jake Matthews | Falcons | OT | Texas A&M |
| 2014 | 1 | 7 | Mike Evans | Buccaneers | WR | Texas A&M |
| 2014 | 1 | 22 | Johnny Manziel | Browns | QB | Texas A&M |
| 2013 | 1 | 2 | Luke Joeckel | Jaguars | OT | Texas A&M |
| 2013 | 2 | 62 | Christine Michael | Seahawks | RB | Texas A&M |
| 2013 | 3 | 81 | Damontre Moore | Giants | DE | Texas A&M |
| 2013 | 4 | 118 | Sean Porter | Bengals | LB | Texas A&M |
| 2013 | 6 | 174 | Ryan Swope | Cardinals | WR | Texas A&M |
TornadoMan and I disagree on a number of things (particularly and sometimes vigorously about former ISU FB coaches), but he made what I believe to be a very good general observation about FB. I agreed with it. I don't see how it has any bearing on the "quality" of my argument. But it's interesting that you used it as an opportunity to make a personal attack on him.
IMO you grossly overestimated the amount of money it would take to bring in an experienced HC. You threw a bunch of numbers out there with no backup. And I said in the last post, the AD received a large donation and decided to put that money into things other than upgrading the coaching. We'll see how that works out. The money is (at least was) there to make a play for an experienced HC.
I have no idea what was given to who. And unless you were on staff at these places when said coaches were there, or interviewed said coaches and athletic directors, neither do you. But, I understand why you need to spin your opinions as facts, because there aren't really any good arguments to back up your assertion that ISU has losing FB primarily because of AD budget.
I cut and pasted the numbers directly from the EADA site. Expenses come before revenue on that site, and I(SU) comes before K(SU) in the alphabet, so I'm not sure what I did to dishonestly present the data. If you have another source for revenue expense numbers from the latest academic year, please post it.
Here's something for you to ponder: This year will be the fifth year in a row that KSU has finished with an equal or better overall FB record than UT, despite having about 1/2 of the AD budget. For 2014, UT's revenue was $161,035,184, so KSU actually had less than 1/2 of UT's revenue for the last reported year. If football W-L is largely driven by AD budget, as you claim, how do you explain this?
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CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
This is interesting.
As for the last question, I think it will go like this: "Are you donating all you can?" followed by a long post about ISU fans and our unwillingness to spend money on the football program.
Obsessive poster has become the homeless guy on the street corner who just keeps yelling about the same thing. The first time you walk past him and he screams @#$% at you, it pi$$es you off because it feels like a personal attack. Then you realize he's just screaming at thin air because he's chemically unbalanced and living in some world of his own making. Worst mistake is to engage him, because crazy is crazy.
True. The show Dowling has put on the last couple of years against the eastern Iowa power has been complete domination, and I have to think a few of those kids could play for us. Still don't understand why we didn't go hard after Boyle early and often, he fits our offense so much better than Iowa's. But you're right, CIML football is dominant and there are probably more good players within 30 miles from Ames we should be getting.
It's always a big money game and I don't think you'll ever see us drop Iowa, they may drop us. They are not a bad non-fcs match up in that they are a barely average bcs team that's usually over-rated. Toledo makes a good Mac team to play, though we better get better if we're going to win at their place. And we always get to play UNI at home, and like I said, if we have to be afraid to schedule them, something is very wrong in the program.
I think it is nice that you can summarize what my argument is. Thanks. Of course you half *** it to try to look like you're refuting what I'm saying, of course omitting half of everything. No wonder you look so intelligent. You don't deal with the argument at hand, rather you make one up to make you appear to be in control, bravo.
Never once have I ever spoken of the athletic department budget, only football. Of course, fb is the main fundraiser for everything else, so it would seem it's pretty damn important.
The reason the stats you posted were, shall we say skewed (rather than misleading) was because you didn't look at the budget behind the numbers you used. It was right there sport by sport. I guess we should ignore that they, and every other school in the conference spent more on fb than we did (including Kansas which was frightening), because that doesn't further your simplistic argument (fire the coach).
And quit moving the goal post. You said Johnny Orr type hire (read your own quote), then when made to look foolish, you change to "experienced" coach. Of course the answers to those questions are vastly different.
The depth of the donor pool is what pays the day to day bills for running your programs. You hit the big donors for big projects. At Iowa State, these big donors have had much of their money used for day to day operations. I'm surprised someone as knowledgeable as you would not see that, and understand it's impact.
And to answer your last question, K State has Bill Snyder.
I'm not sure what part of your argument I'm missing. I think the problem here, as it has been all along, is that you have presented no facts to back up your primary assertion, and you just get angry when folks challenge it and present evidence to cast doubt on your assertion. You can attack me personally all day long, but that won't change this problem.
Your argument seems to be centered around donors/donations, or the lack thereof. What do donors have direct control over: The total AD revenue, or the FB budget? ISU spent about $6,000,000 more overall than KSU did, but about $2,000,000 less on FB. Is it the donors' fault that ADJP and his staff decided to spend less on FB and more on other things than KSU did? The only thing that the donors can directly affect is the AD revenue. In the context of your argument, which seems to be that ISU needs more donor revenue, the overall AD revenue is the number that should be discussed. If you want ISU to spend more of that revenue on FB, then your gripe is with ADJP, and not the donors.
My apologies for that. Let's go with JO-type hire. Nothing changes. A large donation was made and money was available to do a JO-type hire. And there might still be some funds available to do it.
Do you know for a fact that this different than at KSU?
Aren't these two statements pretty much in direct conflict? UT spent $38,000,000 on FB compared to $16,000,000 by KSU. Yet I posted previously how the two programs have compared W-L wise over the past 5 years.
How much commitment/money is it going to take for ISU to consistently win 6-8 games?
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