The Formula to Win at Iowa State

[dualthreat]

It's strange how my comments about the 4 coaches was left out of your response.

I have no idea why jared is always ripped apart on this board. No one has ever claimed him to be all big 12 but if I were to judge him based off things read on here I would assume he was a cancer to the team. From what I've heard, he was the exact opposite.

 

[CyDude16]

I feel sorry for someone who a few years after, has to come defend a player that couldn't cut it at Illinois state.

 

[Luth4Cy]

JB could have been a good QB if we had the o-line to truly be a run first team. Unfortunately, we never had that o-line. He may have provided some leadership that others couldn't, but from a physical standpoint and what our QB needs to now to have any chance to win a game Richardson is clearly the better choice.

 

[Cyforce]

Buy the top QB recruit in the nation. It'll be worth it in the long run (kinda)

Worked for "The Chiz".

 

[Tornado man]

What do you think it takes to make a winner at Iowa State? What changes need to be made with this program? (Other than just "Keep Rhoads" or "Fire Rhoads")

Increase presence in Texas for recruiting
Schedule differently
Offensive scheme... less plays vs up tempo

K-State and Oklahoma State have built winners in two completely different ways. Baylor has as well, but their recruiting advantages are far above KSU and OSU. One is a slow-it-down and physical approach, while another is a spread offense meant to create mismatches. Both recruit Texas hard.

Whatever is going on now isn't working, although it had seen success in previous years. Curious what everyone thinks needs to be the approach moving forward, whoever is coach.

There is no program "formula." It is always the head coach and HIS formula. You have to strike gold in hiring the head coach.
Did Stanford have a "formula" before hiring Harbaugh? No. And now that he's gone, their program is slowly but steadily slipping back.
Did K-State have a "formula" before hiring Snyder. No. Snyder brought his own with him.
Baylor, Miss State, Ole Miss, and on and on and on. They hired the right coaches, and away they went.

 

[madguy30]

An identity. Something. And then that something to build off of. Something people can rely on for ISU to have established pretty much every year.

I had a much longer write up, but I'll just leave it at that, because I don't recall a time when it's happened.

 

[norcalcy]

Offensive line and running game. A horrible, awful Raiders team was able to beat a pretty good Chiefs team tonight because they finally ran the damn ball.

 

[norcalcy]

Jared was 4-4 in Big12 starts (all 4 losses were against top 25, 3 of 4 wins against top 25). Once they get some playing time in we can revisit your question.

I don't care what anyone says, that was a pretty good stat line for an ISU QB. The guy knew how to run that zone read and had pretty good wheels. Good leader on the field too.

 

[cylove]

This. And I'll take it a step further. ISU needs to stop gambling the HC position on coordinators with no previous head coaching experience. Yes, that can and does work, but it's not working at ISU. For the better part of the the past 20 years, the ISU HCs have not had any previous HC experience, and ISU football has about a 0.380 winning % over that time. Apparently the job is too big for someone with no HC experience.

IMO, time is running out; more realignment is going to come, and sooner than later if this new playoff turns into a boondoggle. It's time for a Johnny-Orr-type-swing-for-the-fences move for the FB program. Rally the big donors and make a play for somebody. In 10-15 years, if ISU does end up in some AAC-like conference, I don't want to be looking back and having regrets that the AD didn't go for broke to turn the FB program around.

Give Rhoads until the end of the year. If the deer-in-the-headlights play continues without improvement, make the move and don't look back.

Secondly, as long as ISU in in the Big 12, get somebody on staff with TX ties, and recruit TX the right way.

What a laughable post. Typically lacking in any substance, just quick quick rally money, but not mine.

You want Johnny in football, you should remember that we made him the highest paid coach in the nation to come here.

So plan on starting offering $5 million to start. Then you better figure out how to come up with the $$$ to allow them to operate their program in the manner that they are used to, so that $60 million dollar budget had better find at least another $40 million, and ******* fast.

People here, including yourself, blanch at needing the necessary uptick in donations and money needed to reach just 6-6. But yeah, we will double the budget here in the next 2 years.

There was one thing you were right about, though. Another round of realignment is on its way. I would assume that this will pretty much set the superconference thing up. We get demoted, and regardless what people may think, it is a realistic possibility that we are still on the chopping block, and there is no coming back.

What happens when we start defaulting on all of those bonds because the TV money goes back to previous levels, or worse?

 

[CyBobby]

Coaches with deep ties to Texas or Florida. A good coach at preaching the basics.

Under the Rhoads regime we have made way too many killing mistakes...ie motion penalties, offsides, failing to be in the right spot defensively.....etc etc.

These are the killing mistakes that K-State just does not make and that is the main reason that they do not beat themselves...


ISU must hire a coach with deep deep ties to the high school coaches in Texas, and is able to coach and instill in our team the importance of "Mistake Free Football".....

Failing that we are destined for Last Place in the big 12

 

[norcalcy]

Looks like the ignore feature continues to do its job filtering creepy cyber bullies!

 

[jbhtexas]

What a laughable post. Typically lacking in any substance, just quick quick rally money, but not mine.

What kind of "substance" are you looking for? TornadoMan said it earlier, there is no magic "formula" that message board posters can develop. That "formula" comes from the vision that the head coach has for the direction of program, and his ability to implement that vision. This thread speaks volumes about where ISU FB stands in that regard.

People here, including yourself, blanch at needing the necessary uptick in donations and money needed to reach just 6-6. But yeah, we will double the budget here in the next 2 years.

According to the 2014 EADA report, the KSU and ISU AD's have very similar revenues and expenditures. One school has a successful FB program, and one doesn't.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

2013-2014 Grand Total Expenses: ISU: $67,967,709, KSU: $61,729,379

2013-2014 Grand Total Revenues: ISU: $68,170,381; KSU: $72,087,818

ISU actually outspent KSU last year (at least according to these numbers). Are you claiming that the 6% difference in revenue accounts for the huge disparity in the success between the FB programs of the two schools? It appears to me that the ISU AD has adequate revenue to be 6-6 in FB, and likely 2-3 wins better than that.

I don't disagree with you that donations to the ISU AD should be higher. The supporters that do give seem generous, but the number participating is too low. But that isn't what is causing ISU to not win 6 or 7 FB games a year.

And as far as money to pay coaches...one of the jobs of administrators is to help big donors understand where their money can best help the organization, especially when those big donations don't come very often. Sometimes that can be particularly challenging if the donor has a particular desire for the use of their donation. A big donation was received and the choices were made. We'll see how it works out.

 

[ttuadvisor]

From an outsiders perspective, y'all need to end the Rhoads era and get a fresh start.

I think one of the keys to being a successful college football program is a passionate fan base who; shows up, creates an atmosphere that 18-22 year old kids want to be around and cares. I believe Iowa State has all of that. Sure, you can have success without it(Baylor and TCU) but its easier to build when you have buy-in from the fans even when you aren't good.

No one wants an outsider to hash through all the obstacles at their program so I'll skip over that part, but I think y'all seem to have a good grasp on what they are.

An identity. Something. And then that something to build off of. Something people can rely on for ISU to have established pretty much every year.

I had a much longer write up, but I'll just leave it at that, because I don't recall a time when it's happened.

This. Finding an identity is the key for a non-blue blood program. Just look around the Big 12;

KSU - Snyderball, take unheralded kids and teach them to maintain the highest levels of discipline.
Tech - Airraid, take less talented athletes and put them out in space to make plays.
Baylor - Trackball, take a bunch of track stars, put pads on them and just throw it deep every other play.
TCU - 4-2-5, take 3* athletes from the Texas Metroplex and put them on defense
A&M - Manziel, find one special player to turn it all around

Seemed like ISU was on the path to become a LB U with Knott and Klein which would have been an identity you could build a program around, but it just never came together like that.

As many have mentioned in this thread I think ISU's best bet is a Snyderball approach. Slow the game down, keep it simple, be the most disciplined team, find that one special player and build an identity.

 

[CYKOFAN]

What a laughable post. Typically lacking in any substance, just quick quick rally money, but not mine.

You want Johnny in football, you should remember that we made him the highest paid coach in the nation to come here.

So plan on starting offering $5 million to start. Then you better figure out how to come up with the $$$ to allow them to operate their program in the manner that they are used to, so that $60 million dollar budget had better find at least another $40 million, and ******* fast.

People here, including yourself, blanch at needing the necessary uptick in donations and money needed to reach just 6-6. But yeah, we will double the budget here in the next 2 years.

There was one thing you were right about, though. Another round of realignment is on its way. I would assume that this will pretty much set the superconference thing up. We get demoted, and regardless what people may think, it is a realistic possibility that we are still on the chopping block, and there is no coming back.

What happens when we start defaulting on all of those bonds because the TV money goes back to previous levels, or worse?

The re-alignment thing has me a little worried too. There will be at least one or two of the big 5 conferences left out of the play-offs. There will be a lot of screaming about that, especially if the Big 12 is one of them. It's a bad time for our football program to be at a low, and I'm also not sure how popular our coach and a.d. are with the Big 12 brass. The best thing for us is for the play-offs to go to 8 teams asap, though I don't know how long the current 4 team format is scheduled to run. Maybe there are set contracts with the bowl games already in place.

 

[jbhtexas]

There will be a lot of screaming about that, especially if the Big 12 is one of them.

There will be just as much screaming (if not more) if the Big Ten gets left out with a one-loss tOSU. You can guarantee that Urban Meyer will go off again about the lack of athleticism in the Big Ten and the need to recruit better athletes to the conference, which will bring to light Delaney's failure during the last realignment to expand the Big Ten footprint into the fertile southern recruiting grounds.

But no doubt that the OU fanbase for sure will go ballistic if the Big 12 is left out.

 

[CYKOFAN]

There will be just as much screaming (if not more) if the Big Ten gets left out with a one-loss tOSU. You can guarantee that Urban Meyer will go off again about the lack of athleticism in the Big Ten and the need to recruit better athletes to the conference, which will bring to light Delaney's failure during the last realignment to expand the Big Ten footprint into the fertile southern recruiting grounds.

But no doubt that the OU fanbase for sure will go ballistic if the Big 12 is left out.

Not to mention a one loss Baylor or TCU fanbase, as well as the rest of us Big 12 fans. And if two SEC teams get in, the other conferences will go ballistic. Four teams is better than two, but eight would be so much better than 4 as it's looking like there will be some good one loss teams from major conferences left out while others get in. No way to make everybody happy, but I sure don't understand why they just didn't go to an 8 team play-off like some of the other divisions.

 

[MAcFroggy]

This is coming from a TCU fan, so take it with a grain of salt (not meant to be an insult, so hopefully it isn't taken that way). What are your thoughts about running the triple option (similar to Navy, Georgia Tech, Air Force, etc)? It does not require elite athletes, and it can be deadly with a fast QB and fast RB. You really only need one or two good receivers. I know it might no be the most exciting offense, but it seems to be working for Georgia Tech and has been for a while.

It might not be the offense that could beat OU or UT (when they get back to being Texas) regularly, but it give you a good chance against KU, KSU, Tech, and some of the other schools every year and beat the OU/Texas every couple years. Seems like a great niche that would be difficult for Big 12 schools to get used to as they would only see it once a year.

 

[jbhtexas]

Not to mention a one loss Baylor or TCU fanbase, as well as the rest of us Big 12 fans.

True. But an angry BU/TCU/ISU probably doesn't have the potential effect on the stability of the Big 12 that an angry OU or angry UT does. I don't know if you've ever visited the LandThieves (OU) site, but they almost universally hate the Big 12 and seemingly would rather be elsewhere.

 

[CYKOFAN]

This is coming from a TCU fan, so take it with a grain of salt (not meant to be an insult, so hopefully it isn't taken that way). What are your thoughts about running the triple option (similar to Navy, Georgia Tech, Air Force, etc)? It does not require elite athletes, and it can be deadly with a fast QB and fast RB. You really only need one or two good receivers. I know it might no be the most exciting offense, but it seems to be working for Georgia Tech and has been for a while.

It might not be the offense that could beat OU or UT (when they get back to being Texas) regularly, but it give you a good chance against KU, KSU, Tech, and some of the other schools every year and beat the OU/Texas every couple years. Seems like a great niche that would be difficult for Big 12 schools to get used to as they would only see it once a year.

I'm sure we'd try anything to be successful, but the only problem with the triple option is that we seem to do better getting good receivers than we do getting good running backs, at least lately. I think our younger qb's might be more capable triple option qb's than our current top two though. Obviously we would need a coach and/or o-coordinator who is very familiar with it, and I don't think we do right now.

 

[jbhtexas]

This is coming from a TCU fan, so take it with a grain of salt (not meant to be an insult, so hopefully it isn't taken that way). What are your thoughts about running the triple option (similar to Navy, Georgia Tech, Air Force, etc)? It does not require elite athletes, and it can be deadly with a fast QB and fast RB. You really only need one or two good receivers. I know it might no be the most exciting offense, but it seems to be working for Georgia Tech and has been for a while.

ISU ran the triple option 20 years ago during the last few years of the Jim Walden era, and it didn't go well. Many fans still remember this. Walden actually switched to it for a very similar reason to what you mentioned (after a blowup with university over the eligibility of a talented WR), mainly the inability to get good recruits to ISU. I don't want to rehash the Walden era, but things are much better now facility-wise, and support-wise from both fans and administration, so maybe the triple option could work now with the right coach.