I get that they are different driving experiences - it doesn't change the fact that it's THE SAME CAR MADE BY THE SAME CORPORATION!!!
So Long Saturn and Pontiac
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
I get that they are different driving experiences - it doesn't change the fact that it's THE SAME CAR MADE BY THE SAME CORPORATION!!!
Fine, if we can't get over this whole luxury/common car gap, then why are there no complaints when Toyota makes both the Corolla and Scion Xb? They too are the exact same car.
No, it's not.
One is a luxury car.
The other is a family sedan.
The Camry starts out around 19k and goes up to around 26k.
The E-series starts out around 35k and goes up from there.
You can argue that they are the "same car by the same corporation" but they are very clearly aimed at different market segments at different price points.
GM's badge engineering leaves you with 3-4 cars at every price point which are essentially the same.
I know, right? The GrandAm is to Iowa what the subaru outback is to colorado. I have a Vibe and have been happy with it without problems but in reality all the working parts are Toyota.
The Xb is the big boxy truckish looking thing.
I suspect you are thinking of the Tc, which is the coupe.
There is no such thing as a Corolla Coupe, so that's where the Scion Tc fits in.
The Scion brand has always been aimed at the 20something crowd, and that car fits better there than it would in the mainline Toyota lineup, I guess is the reasoning.
I'm sad to hear about Saturn being phased out. I owned 4 Saturns including a 1st gen Vue, 1st gen Vue Hybrid and I currently drive the 2nd gen Vue. It's been a fantastic vehicle. And the Saturn in Des Moines has been like family. Great people to work with that I hope all end up at equally as good places.
The arguements here are just a rehash of the last 5 threads on the subject. Feel free to read through the point-couterpoint rundowns there rather than wasting your time retyping them all here. You'll also note that no one ever conceded their original position before, so you can probably give that up too.
Did anyone actually read the plan? I've been trying but the copy I have a link to has been removed. Does it actually say Pontiac is being fazed out, or is that being implied because Pontiac is not among the four "core" brands? I've seen several reports that Saturn is out, and have seen specific references to passages contained in the viability plan. I've also seen interviews with Saturn dealership association members. However, the OP is the only person I have seen putting both Pontiac and Saturn in the same boat.
Did anyone actually read the plan? I've been trying but the copy I have a link to has been removed. Does it actually say Pontiac is being fazed out, or is that being implied because Pontiac is not among the four "core" brands? I've seen several reports that Saturn is out, and have seen specific references to passages contained in the viability plan. I've also seen interviews with Saturn dealership association members. However, the OP is the only person I have seen putting both Pontiac and Saturn in the same boat.
Ask and ye shall receive...from GM's website...
GM Media Online
From the link...
In the U.S., GM will focus on its core brands; Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Pontiac will serve as a focused brand with fewer entries, within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel. GM will have a total of 36 nameplates in 2012, down 25 percent from 2008 levels. The plan also provides additional detail on the Hummer, Saturn and Saab brands.
Full plan here...
http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/govt/docs/plan.pdf
From the plan...
Brands and Channels—The Company has committed to focus its resources primarily on its core brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Of the remaining brands, Pontiac—which is part of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC retail channel—will be a highly focused niche brand.
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They consider it a "marquee" or "heritage" brand. Frankly, it probably doesn't cost them much to keep it around, since the only difference between a Chevy and a GMC is the 2 dollar badge on the grill and a few grand markup.
I'd kill it too, if I were in charge of GM. It's probably the most egregious example of badge engineering in the automotive industry.
Not 100% true. GMC offers upper scale versions like the Denali (or at least they used to) that have trim levels not available on Chevy's versions.
Not saying Chevy couldn't offer the same trim level.
And I am not going to get back into the "badges are in reality just names or trademarks" argument again.
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Thanks. That's pretty much the roadmap that I have been hearing. The way the title reads I though maybe the OP saw something I hadn't.
GMC gets to stick around because the nameplate commands a premium over the Chevy equivalent. The Yukon Denali really steps on the toes of the Escalade more than the Tahoe.
The Buick is big in China arguement doesn't really make alot of sense. Holden is big in Australia and Opel is big in Europe. They are smart enough to make those cars in those markets, for those markets. If China is buying the cars, move the headquarters there. The Chinese Buick gets better cars than we do anyway. Heck, that would allow them to move the asset rather than dismantle it, which seems to be an option they don't have with Hummer, Saab and Saturn.
