Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

Clark

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All these tweets, rumors, etc. and yet, nothing concrete has really been reported that I've seen.

Just maybe it will be the CF premium deal where we'll just find out eventually.

Go read through the realignment thread from when UT and OU announced they were leaving. See how many of those embedded tweets, articles, and sources turned out to be correct (tl:dr version, none).

It cracks me up how this happens every time. The entire CFB media world gets into a tizzy throwing out theories and "sources say" tweets.

There are lots of ways this will all turn out, and it is a whole lot of fun reading about the possibilities. But if you're here to get concrete information you're going to be disappointed.
 
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madguy30

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CW retweeted the SwimSwam guy who reported yesterday about all the ACC schools negotiating their move to the SEC. He justified it on the grounds that the SwimSwam guy is Twitter verified. Ultimately, he deleted the whole thing.

I take that as something of a proxy for what the people "in the know" really know.

Right now it's just a lot of smoke and it's too bad clicks are the ultimate goal.
 

madguy30

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Go read through the realignment thread from when UT and OU announced they were leaving. See how many of those embedded tweets, articles, and sources turned out to be correct (tl:dr version, none).

It cracks me up how this happens every time. The entire CFB media world gets into a tizzy throwing out theories and "sources say" tweets.

There are lots of ways this will all turn out, and it is a whole lot of fun reading about the possibilities. But if you're here to get concrete information you're going to be disappointed.

I'm not here for concrete info. It's interesting, yes.
 
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AuH2O

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I’ll take a stab. It’s a prestigious public university that fits the academic profile and catalog of sports for the B1G. It’s a Public Ivy. They have an endowment of $14.5B. I think it adds additional access to DC market, and the spread of UVA alums is all over the east coast/mid-Atlantic. UVA Alum are usually high earners.

It’s my opinion, but they really present themselves as a private institution. They call the campus the “grounds”. Students are 1st year, 2nd year, etc. UVA seems like the place to check the boxes on the B1G ego scorecard.
UVA is a real tough one to figure. One hand, you lay out the reasons that they would be attractive. On the other hand, take away their primetime ND game on ABC, and they drew VERY poorly on TV.

They have some decent history, a great academic school, in a huge metro. Now, a metro the league is already in, but I see the point in trying get additional exposure and interest in a big market. But they don't seem to have much interest in their program.

I think what Maryland and Rutgers proved is that even the Big 10 brand, network, and matchups against big-time brands aren't going to elevate programs to a significant level of interest. UVA is better than those two, but low enough interest that they aren't going to matter in a media deal.

I can't imagine the difference in any of the remaining targets outside of ND and Clemson, maybe Oregon and UNC is >$20M, so you're talking about a 1% difference in per team media revenue at most by picking one team or the other among the remaining teams. At that point, other factors are going to have a little bit of weight. If they didn't, UVA probably wouldn't be a Big 10 target. Or they are making a bet that getting Maryland and UVA together in the Big 10 can build more interest in these programs.

If the Big 10 wants to go total snob, might as well add Duke instead, or in addition. Hell, Stanford has more football interest than UVA, why not add them to the USC/UCLA mix?
 
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exCyDing

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Highlights from the Thamel piece:

The Pac-12/ACC "loose partnership" is expected to get revenue projections from ESPN early next week. People don't think it will be much of a bump because ESPN would not be able to charge the higher in-market rates for ACC Network in Pac-12 markets, since it's not a full merger.

The Pac-12 has convinced the corner schools to wait and see on those numbers before doing anything. If they are unimpressive, they could heat up with the Big 12. Thamel said the conversations between those schools and the Big 12 weren't as hot as had been reported.

Thamel also floats the ACC going on offense to poach schools from the Pac-12 and Big 12 (he mentions TCU and Oklahoma State). Feels unlikely to me but if the ACC keeps its top brands that would be the most $$$ place to be. Nobody knows anything.

Just hope the Pac-12/ACC $$$ figure is bad and then the corner schools might be ready to make a deal for real next week.
It makes sense of the Corners to wait to see what their different options are. There's no need for them to announce a move this week or next. Either before or after the announcement, they're going to have to get a lot of stakeholders on the same page. Having numbers to quantifiably back up that decision is about the best defense, regardless of what they choose.

I'd be shocked if ESPN offers a huge bump for an alliance or a merger between the PAC and ACC. 1+1 does not equal 3 and ESPN doesn't really have to give a full market evaluation since they have the ACC locked up for another good while. They're essentially bidding against themselves and their desire to have the ACC as the basis for third P3 conference.

There's so many chess pieces, it's hard to keep track. The Big 10 is probably standing pat at 16 until Notre Dame makes a decision. If the ACC blows up, it probably forces ND's hand. Between the SEC and Big 10, they're choosing the Big 10 without any question. That would be a massive gift from ESPN to Fox and it's really hard to see if what ESPN's ROI would be in getting maybe Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VA/VA Tech or whomever else into the SEC and combining the PAC/ACC leftovers.

The PAC members will run the numbers on all the different configurations before making a decision. The Big XII isn't going anywhere. The ACC isn't going anywhere. The Big 10 and SEC will make offers to who they want when they want and they will both get what they want. I'm really not expecting any decisions to be made until August or later.
 
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Trice

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Right now it's just a lot of smoke and it's too bad clicks are the ultimate goal.

And to be clear, I'm not accusing CW of getting into crazy rumor-chasing. My point all along has been that almost nobody really knows anything, and even the people who do know end up being wrong because this moves fast and the facts change all the time.
 

exCyDing

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And to be clear, I'm not accusing CW of getting into crazy rumor-chasing. My point all along has been that almost nobody really knows anything, and even the people who do know end up being wrong because this moves fast and the facts change all the time.
The only thing there really is right now is rumor chasing until one of them turns out to be true/right. It's impossible to tell who has a good source, who thinks they have a source, and who's just making **** up and guessing.
 

madguy30

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And to be clear, I'm not accusing CW of getting into crazy rumor-chasing. My point all along has been that almost nobody really knows anything, and even the people who do know end up being wrong because this moves fast and the facts change all the time.

Anything that anyone in the journalism biz that retweets anything about this should really be clear that it's not concrete info or verified.
 

isucy86

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The state ranks 12th in population with 8.6 mil people for one, and has a significant population outside of DC in Richmond, Virginia Beach, and Norfolk.

And as far as “fit”, I’d see Virginia belonging to the Big 10 before I’d ever think that way of Maryland or especially Rutgers.
I think the Big10 was trying to create more Rivals for Penn State. Also NJ & MD/DC have always strong recruiting areas for PSU.
 
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Clark

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The only thing there really is right now is rumor chasing until one of them turns out to be true/right. It's impossible to tell who has a good source, who thinks they have a source, and who's just making **** up and guessing.

It's not really that hard. Sure, there will be rare occasions where someone with 500 followers actually breaks information on twitter but 90% of the time it's going to be broken by a Chris Williams type.

So if you're wanting to avoid the dumb baseless rumors, follow the guys who normally cover the teams and conferences we're discussing.

edit to add: and I don't mean covering the ******* swim team
 
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WhoISthis

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There’s a difference between shooting the **** over what Max Olsen or Pete Thamel wrote in their articles vs sharing MHVer tweets

MHVer is a rumor aggregator. If you want to keep up with what’s actually happening you shop in that aisle.

It’s on the reader, but I get that some can’t discern and need to offload that to guys like Brown
 

cyclones500

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Just curious, if we get the Arizonas. How would getting both Washingtons compare to Utah and Colorado?
My rank of combinations among those, if Arizona schools are secured first:
1 Utah/Colorado
2 Washington/Utah
3 Washington/Colorado
4 Washington/Washington State
5 Utah/Washington State
6 Colorado/Washington State

—> I could put UW/UU first, but I feel like UW is most likely to bolt if BiG offer comes later (similar to UO) and UU/CU is more geographically contiguous (I know, “geography doesn’t matter,” but it’s a tie-breaker for those slots).

I'm open to critique of my ranking, for sure. I don't claim to be an expert.
 

agrabes

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CW retweeted the SwimSwam guy who reported yesterday about all the ACC schools negotiating their move to the SEC. He justified it on the grounds that the SwimSwam guy is Twitter verified. Ultimately, he deleted the whole thing.

I take that as something of a proxy for what the people "in the know" really know.
To be fair though, you have also linked articles from ESPN which (while coming from respected sports writers) were clearly intended to push ESPN's business objectives. So, I agree we should be taking SwimSwam with a lot of skepticism. But we have to take pretty much everybody with a grain of salt. ESPN, Fox, even CBS are players in this game who have their own agenda and objectives and we know that they use their platform to advocate for their own bottom line.

The things we should be paying attention to are the ones like the Thamel article from this morning which seems to be laying out facts that make logical sense and run counter to his employer's business motives.
 

Gunnerclone

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I like that both the CU athletic director and the University Chancellor have first hand experience with the Big 12 Conference. That familiarity will come in handy if they see the PAC estimates. Education is very important to that university, but the athletic director knows the value of a dollar and what he wants to do down the road. I will be surprised if they stay in the PAC and make less money than they could in the Big 12. Time will tell.

I think CU is our disruptor card in this. That conference is so fragile even a CU level school leaving would probably end it all.
 

Die4Cy

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I think CU is our disruptor card in this. That conference is so fragile even a CU level school leaving would probably end it all.

This is like a remake of the 2010 realignment movie. CU is playing the Mizzou role?
 

BryceC

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Thamel also floats the ACC going on offense to poach schools from the Pac-12 and Big 12 (he mentions TCU and Oklahoma State). Feels unlikely to me but if the ACC keeps its top brands that would be the most $$$ place to be. Nobody knows anything.

Here is the thing - if the ACC deal is going to get better, they need to open everything up again. And if they do that, their top brands are gone immediately. I just don't believe anything with the ACC.
 
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StLouisClone

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It makes sense of the Corners to wait to see what their different options are. There's no need for them to announce a move this week or next. Either before or after the announcement, they're going to have to get a lot of stakeholders on the same page. Having numbers to quantifiably back up that decision is about the best defense, regardless of what they choose.

I'd be shocked if ESPN offers a huge bump for an alliance or a merger between the PAC and ACC. 1+1 does not equal 3 and ESPN doesn't really have to give a full market evaluation since they have the ACC locked up for another good while. They're essentially bidding against themselves and their desire to have the ACC as the basis for third P3 conference.

There's so many chess pieces, it's hard to keep track. The Big 10 is probably standing pat at 16 until Notre Dame makes a decision. If the ACC blows up, it probably forces ND's hand. Between the SEC and Big 10, they're choosing the Big 10 without any question. That would be a massive gift from ESPN to Fox and it's really hard to see if what ESPN's ROI would be in getting maybe Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VA/VA Tech or whomever else into the SEC and combining the PAC/ACC leftovers.

The PAC members will run the numbers on all the different configurations before making a decision. The Big XII isn't going anywhere. The ACC isn't going anywhere. The Big 10 and SEC will make offers to who they want when they want and they will both get what they want. I'm really not expecting any decisions to be made until August or later.
I think you made some great points. The revenue bump the corner schools would get from moving to the B12 probably isn't large, but the stability concerns and viewership trends should tip the scale in favor of the B12. We all see that, but it could take some time for that reality to sink in.
 
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cyIclSoneU

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Starting to believe the Big 12 strategically leaked that these talks were more advanced than they were, in an attempt to scare somebody into jumping and starting the dominoes.
 

AuH2O

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It makes sense of the Corners to wait to see what their different options are. There's no need for them to announce a move this week or next. Either before or after the announcement, they're going to have to get a lot of stakeholders on the same page. Having numbers to quantifiably back up that decision is about the best defense, regardless of what they choose.

I'd be shocked if ESPN offers a huge bump for an alliance or a merger between the PAC and ACC. 1+1 does not equal 3 and ESPN doesn't really have to give a full market evaluation since they have the ACC locked up for another good while. They're essentially bidding against themselves and their desire to have the ACC as the basis for third P3 conference.

There's so many chess pieces, it's hard to keep track. The Big 10 is probably standing pat at 16 until Notre Dame makes a decision. If the ACC blows up, it probably forces ND's hand. Between the SEC and Big 10, they're choosing the Big 10 without any question. That would be a massive gift from ESPN to Fox and it's really hard to see if what ESPN's ROI would be in getting maybe Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VA/VA Tech or whomever else into the SEC and combining the PAC/ACC leftovers.

The PAC members will run the numbers on all the different configurations before making a decision. The Big XII isn't going anywhere. The ACC isn't going anywhere. The Big 10 and SEC will make offers to who they want when they want and they will both get what they want. I'm really not expecting any decisions to be made until August or later.
The only thing I worry about at all is access to the playoff. Personally, I will start getting nervous when the Big 10 and SEC start looking to add multiple teams that don't really seem to make sense from a per team media value perspective, and between the SEC and Big 10 they get over 40 members.

For now I think ESPN and Fox both understand that cutting off a chunk of the plains (low population by very high interest in CFB), Washington, Northern CA, Arizona, CO and Utah from the playoff would jeopardize growth. None of these areas are absolutely critical, but all of which, they are either high population or high interest. All together it starts to matter. Bigger pieces of the pie for those that remain, but cutting those areas out limits how much that pie might grow in the future. I think football growth rate is tenuous. I don't think we've seen the hit that the massive decrease in kids participating in football will eventually have.

If the Big 10 adds Oregon, UW, and say Stanford, with a spot open for ND, while the ACC starts to take steps toward dissolution with UNC, UVA, FSU and Clemson all Big 10 or SEC bound, I'm starting to get worried. Then you might see a couple Big 12 brands poached. That's why I would rather see the Big 12 get aggressive, add the four corners schools and make a push for UW. I don't think the Big 12 can sit looking to optimize media dollars per team. The conference needs critical mass and enough critical geography locked up to help stabilize the conference and playoff access.

That also suggests to me that the Big 12 better be careful if they stray from ESPN or Fox in media deals. Like it or not, if you sign a decent media deal with one of those two, the Big 12 becomes a co-product of one of the P2, and that media partner becomes motivated to keep the Big 12's playoff access. If you sign outside of those two, they probably push the P2 to poach enough to blow up the remaining leagues.
 
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