Principal A Class Act

[jmb]

So more shares outstanding won't dilute future impact of earnings on the stock price? weird math.

So in my PM this is what I get? From CloneLuke(message titled-Principal Shill?):
you have provided zero value to this messageboard except knock the guy trying to make points...

there are 2 sides to every argument bro.

Anybody else be "pwned" like this?

Cloneluke-should a company ever do a stock split? Are you more of the WB school of thought and simply issue new share classes etc.? Are you thinking that it would be more effective for a business model to have liquidity problems? What exactly is your position? I have asked you to answer many questions, and most specifically asked you to prove to us your justifications for your ever shifting postion(s). I have yet to see one answer that is factually accurate. Just one fact would be good. Try it(truth) on for size, and see if you can find one size of truth that fits. I mean even extra small would be more truth than you have injected into this conversation.

This thread is a huge piece of evidence proving that you fail to grasp even the smallest of facts in re: stock, TARP, logic, etc. I am certain you are a great guy, but you keep on pushing this issue...and simply seem silly.

I would also like to point out that I am not a Principal Shill...rather I am a huge fan of financial literacy.

www.google.com
www.financialtimes.com
www.investmentnews.com
www.icantbelieveitsnotbutter.com nothing to do with anything other than I thought you may enjoy the website.

 

[GoShow97]

Oh and if you measure class by what wall street says then you have major issues. They caused this crap to begin with.

Also PFG took TARP so in my opinion they are garbage.

You don't have a clue what or how TARP funds works do you.

 

[mplscyclone]

So more shares outstanding won't dilute future impact of earnings on the stock price? weird math.

Whatever dilution is predicted, it's already affected in the price now. The stock price factors in what is projected in the future. Yes, the EPS are a little bit lower now, but whatever the target price Analysts set factors any future dilution. If they feel that $20/share is what the company is worth, and people are trading at that price, then what's the complaint?

 

[cloneluke80]

So in my PM this is what I get? From CloneLuke(message titled-Principal Shill?):
you have provided zero value to this messageboard except knock the guy trying to make points...

there are 2 sides to every argument bro.

Anybody else be "pwned" like this?

Cloneluke-should a company ever do a stock split? Are you more of the WB school of thought and simply issue new share classes etc.? Are you thinking that it would be more effective for a business model to have liquidity problems? What exactly is your position? I have asked you to answer many questions, and most specifically asked you to prove to us your justifications for your ever shifting postion(s). I have yet to see one answer that is factually accurate. Just one fact would be good. Try it(truth) on for size, and see if you can find one size of truth that fits. I mean even extra small would be more truth than you have injected into this conversation.

This thread is a huge piece of evidence proving that you fail to grasp even the smallest of facts in re: stock, TARP, logic, etc. I am certain you are a great guy, but you keep on pushing this issue...and simply seem silly.

I would also like to point out that I am not a Principal Shill...rather I am a huge fan of financial literacy.

www.google.com
www.financialtimes.com
www.investmentnews.com
www.icantbelieveitsnotbutter.com nothing to do with anything other than I thought you may enjoy the website.

My position is principal did this to themselves and I could give a crap. Stock split is not the same as an equity issue and you know that. You cant handle PM's then go cry to mommy.

And you are principal shill.

 

[mplscyclone]

You do realize that many people have been fired to make a departmental budget and not because they aren't doing (meaningfull) work ?

I can't speak in your case, but with the 10 or so people I know, their work was seriously stopping...

The truth of the matter is that it's not PFG's job to employ someone. It's their job to make money. If you can help them make money, then you're on board. If you were helping, but shown the door, then someone who gets paid less can do the same work. If you can't help them, then you're out the door. The Corporate world can be cutthroat.

 

[mplscyclone]

My position is principal did this to themselves and I could give a crap. Stock split is not the same as an equity issue and you know that. You cant handle PM's then go cry to mommy.

And you are principal shill.

Here's the deal: The reason why Principal stock was tanking had less to do with earnings than it did with their credit exposure. People were concerned the company did not have enough capital to cover their Credit default risk.

So, what did they do? They raised capital. They issued new stock, and they may take TARP. While you can rip on PFG if they do take it, realize almost every big bank you've heard of has taken it already (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan & Chase, Capital One, etc.).

Anyhow, they were able to successfully raise capital and there is less concern about their credit exposure now. How can that possibly be bad for the company?

As a shareholder, would you rather have the price at $20 and slightly more diluted, or at $1, not diluted, and the company on the verge of tanking?

If you are a shareholder, then you aren't listening to the earnings calls, nor are you researching the company you own stock in...

 

[jmb]

My position is principal did this to themselves and I could give a crap. Stock split is not the same as an equity issue and you know that. You cant handle PM's then go cry to mommy.

And you are principal shill.

man, you are a tough debater. tough without them fact thingys, you can make up anything!

p.s. bro's before ho's...you know since we are "bro's"

p.p.s. i really feel like I owe you a couple of bucks for the entertainment today. where should i send that? will you be here tomorrow?

 

[cloneluke80]

Here's the deal: The reason why Principal stock was tanking had less to do with earnings than it did with their credit exposure. People were concerned the company did not have enough capital to cover their Credit default risk.

So, what did they do? They raised capital. They issued new stock, and they may take TARP. While you can rip on PFG if they do take it, realize almost every big bank you've heard of has taken it already (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan & Chase, Capital One, etc.).

Anyhow, they were able to successfully raise capital and there is less concern about their credit exposure now. How can that possibly be bad for the company?

As a shareholder, would you rather have the price at $20 and slightly more diluted, or at $1, not diluted, and the company on the verge of tanking?

If you are a shareholder, then you aren't listening to the earnings calls, nor are you researching the company you own stock in...

Not a stockholder for obvious reasons, not even sure why I am still talking about Principal because I have absolutely no stake in them.

I have better companies to invest in.

 

[jmb]

Here's the deal: The reason why Principal stock was tanking had less to do with earnings than it did with their credit exposure. People were concerned the company did not have enough capital to cover their Credit default risk.

So, what did they do? They raised capital. They issued new stock, and they may take TARP. While you can rip on PFG if they do take it, realize almost every big bank you've heard of has taken it already (Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan & Chase, Capital One, etc.).

Anyhow, they were able to successfully raise capital and there is less concern about their credit exposure now. How can that possibly be bad for the company?

As a shareholder, would you rather have the price at $20 and slightly more diluted, or at $1, not diluted, and the company on the verge of tanking?

If you are a shareholder, then you aren't listening to the earnings calls, nor are you researching the company you own stock in...

This isn't even the orignial problem the cl had.

 

[cloneluke80]

jmb - i guess you are such a financial genius, then where is the dollar headed? economy? stock market? any clues you can provide us novices? you must be a millionaire by now?

 

[jmb]

jmb - i guess you are such a financial genius, then where is the dollar headed? economy? stock market? any clues you can provide us novices? you must be a millionaire by now?

what interest rate is the tarp money again? :biglaugh:

 

[mplscyclone]

I have better companies to invest in.

Such as?

 

[cloneluke80]

what interest rate is the tarp money again? :biglaugh:

5%

 

[mplscyclone]

5%

And I can tell you from modeling that 5% is considered a low cost of Capital in the US....

 

[cloneluke80]

did your modeling predict the crash last fall, damn there are so many experts on here, you would think you would all be relaxing on some island for the rest of your life?

 

[mplscyclone]

did your modeling predict the crash last fall, damn there are so many experts on here, you would think you would all be relaxing on some island for the rest of your life?

Please continue to jump around. I just said that in the work I (and many others) do, we would conclude that a 5% interest rate is pretty low.

This has nothing to do what has happened in the past.

My job isn't to predict the future anyways. My job is to try to help set assumptions, but not to predict the future.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Lets say you own 2,000 shares of PFG. At the time of the offering, that stock would have been worth $39,500, a large sum for an "everyday" investor. Your stock ownership would have represented a 0.000769% ownership in PFG.

Following the offering, you still own 2,000 shares of PFG. Because the additional shares were issued at the same price as the stock's closing price on that day, the value of your stocks has not decreased on a "book value" basis. The company did not issue the additional stock for nothing. In fact, the offering raised $1B. Presumably, the company issued the stock at what it felt was a favorable price so that it could utilize those funds to make even more money for its shareholders, resulting in the stock price going higher. The company would not issue stock just for the sake of issuing stock. The board is pressured by large institutional investors (who own far more than 2,000 shares) to make those invetors' holdings worth more.

Following the offering, your 2,000 shares represents 0.000645% of the ownership of PFG. While this is of course less, on a percentage basis, than what you owned before, it's not like it really matters. Prior to the offering you did not own anywhere near enough shares to exercise voting control over any matter coming before the shareholders, and that remains the case.

If prior to the offering you had owned 50.01% of the outstanding stock, and afterwards you owned 49.99%, then I suppose you would have room to complain. However, such a scenario is impossible because if you own 50.01% you: (a) likely control the board (absent some funky voting structure), and the board would not act to dilute the party responsible for their appointment to the board, and (b) you would already be a multi-billionairre.

 

[mplscyclone]

Here's my final post on this thread.

What I find with most people when they talk about PFG, they are basically complaining about problems with Corporations, but pinning these problems on PFG. PFG is more a victim of our economy than it is of decisions the executives/board has made.

What I am trying to say is that PFG is a solid company, and is run better than many other companies in it's peer group. Is it perfect? No. Do people make mistakes? Sure.

Personally, I'd rather focus on what PFG can do in the future, rather than ***** about the past.

Just look at AIG, Hartford, AEGON, or some other insurance company, then make your assessment on PFG. I realize there aren't tons of big corporations here in DSM, but I feel like PFG gets more flack on here, and most do not really know what they are talking about.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Not to mention the fact that the stock is up $0.83 per share since the offering - 4.2% in a week.

 

[egami]

...but I feel like PFG gets more flack on here, and most do not really know what they are talking about.

This about sums up Internet message boards in general.