Preseason NIT

hiwhatis

Active Member
Mar 25, 2006
802
36
28
Ames, IA
Wow!! I thought this was site was called [glow=red,2,300]CYCLONE[/glow] fantic not Cyclone fairweather fan.com

Personally I don't know how good we'll be. All I know is I hope we do well. I hope we get 1st in our confrence. Do I know the chance of this happening, yes. I don't care I believe we'll get in the top 3 in our confence. That's why I call myself a CYCLONE fanatic. I don't know why some of you people even call yourselves cyclones. Might as well move to Iowa City.
 

CRLCy

Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 18, 2006
222
21
18
Cedar Rapids
Been reading this board ever since it came online, and been real excited about the upcoming Football and Basketball seasons.
I've resisted responding to what has appeared to be a growing negativity on the board.

We all should be understanding of perspectives. If you have something negative, fine, say it once, then go on.
Please, Please... don't post it on every thread...I actually want to hear everyones perspective..

We are all going to have unknowns for the upcoming seasons. I for one, go online because I look forward to hearing from ISU fans, as I live a mostly Iowa haven area of the state. I personally believe as true fans, we should error on the sake of giving our new coach the benefit of the doubt, before assuming the worst. But, we all have our opinions.

Wayne Morgan I'm sure tried his best, but frankly, the team showed no resolve. Reasons? don't have a clue.
Will GMac have better results, I hope so, I'd love to see us back in the elite 8 or better.

Went to school when Jeff Grayer was running up the court and Johnny Orr coaching, loved every game I went to, win or lose, rooted for my team. If we have a poor season, so be it. I bet it won't be for lack of effort.

Let's keep things a bit more positive and show people that we are absolutely great fans!!! maybe then, that magic will be back.
 

Drews79

Member
Apr 11, 2006
187
0
16
Hey Discom...

I am going to save every worthless message you have posted on here and show them to you after we win 19 games next year and get into the NCAA tourney.

Gmac's style of play fits perfectly into what Hilton Coliseum basketball fans want to see. A grind it out style of defense will get the crowd back involved and Hilton magic will return. It has been lacking for 2 years now. Mark my words. Next year we WILL be talented, play hard, and execute fundamentally. In turn, we will win nearly all of our home games and sneak out our fair share on the road.

Last year was an absolute joke due to the talented athletes we had. It makes my stomach churn thinking about it. As far as I'm concerned, you can pack your bags and follow Waynie to his next head coaching job at a D3 school. I hear he needs a new ball boy. Peace
 

bluehooper

Member
Apr 10, 2006
216
0
16
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Been reading this board ever since it came online, and been real excited about the upcoming Football and Basketball seasons.
I've resisted responding to what has appeared to be a growing negativity on the board.

We all should be understanding of perspectives. If you have something negative, fine, say it once, then go on.
Please, Please... don't post it on every thread...I actually want to hear everyones perspective..

We are all going to have unknowns for the upcoming seasons. I for one, go online because I look forward to hearing from ISU fans, as I live a mostly Iowa haven area of the state. I personally believe as true fans, we should error on the sake of giving our new coach the benefit of the doubt, before assuming the worst. But, we all have our opinions.

Wayne Morgan I'm sure tried his best, but frankly, the team showed no resolve. Reasons? don't have a clue.
Will GMac have better results, I hope so, I'd love to see us back in the elite 8 or better.

Went to school when Jeff Grayer was running up the court and Johnny Orr coaching, loved every game I went to, win or lose, rooted for my team. If we have a poor season, so be it. I bet it won't be for lack of effort.

Let's keep things a bit more positive and show people that we are absolutely great fans!!! maybe then, that magic will be back.
[/b][/quote]


THANK YOU!!! This board will lose people if the same negative thoughts continually have to be shared on every thread. Enough already. I also started coming here because I love Cyclone athletics and I must admit my enthusiasm has been drained. I will join you in erroring on the side of optimism until the results prove the optimism wrong.
 
Apr 10, 2006
97
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A grind it out style will pack in the fans? Like Orr's grind it out style? How does grinding it out get the crowd on its feet? When I watch Iowa games with thier grind it out style it sure doesn't fire up the crowd, so I wonder why you think it will work here. I appreciate your concern about what I assume is my posts, however I believe I will keep saying whatever I want. If you could tell me why you are so excited about next years teams, I may actually respect your position. My "negative" posts are not so much negatove, as they are founded in realizim. I state my points for why we won't be good next year
basketball: only two big men, all three guards new, loss of almost all scoring and assists. improving conference around us.
Football: tougher schedule, loss of key players, and lack of depth at key positions.
 

Drews79

Member
Apr 11, 2006
187
0
16
Discom..

First of all, i said a grind it out style of "defense." That doesn't mean we have to grind it out on offense. Do you not remember the Eustachy back to back championships. That was some of the greatest defense played by teams that I have ever seen. Do you not remember teams coming into Hilton during that tenure and getting so flustered that they couldn't even run an offense due to the noise and in your face D?

I think Gmac will insert that style of defense and environment. That is what I am expecting, and that is why I'm optimistic. I also think you really need to have a "wait and see approach to his recruiting. Why are you trying to bash on him when he had to nationally recruit approx. 6 new players in about 45 days. The guys he brought in this late in the game are pretty talented considering the timing allowed.

Discom.... talent is all over the place in college basketball these days. There is a lot more parity. This can be justified by watching the NCAA tournament. Nowadays, at the high D1 level, the determing factor between wins and losses is coaching. A perfect example is Wayne Morgan.... a team with all the talent in the world and a record of barely breaking 500. Poor coaching at it's finest.


You are also comparing Hilton Coliseum to Carver Hawkeye Arena? Get real. Hawkeye fans have been sitting on their thumbs in their seats since that arena was built. Are you saying that the Duke's, kansas, North Carolina, Florida, Ucla, Texas, MSU'style of defense is boring and doesn't get the crowd fired up?
 
Apr 10, 2006
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Funny thing, i seem to remember the same thing in 04-05 in the morgan era. Even last year there were signs of it from time to time, when the first trap hit, they throw it to the closest possible player who was inexplicitly a center, and the other shoe dropped resulting in a steal for a fast break dunk. I remember Larry's second to last year when we couldn't win to save our souls and the games were just terrible to watch, but noone wanted to fire larry for that, he just didn't have the right players.
I find it funny that the players that left, in the common opinion of the common people on this board, didn't have a work ethic or desire to win. However it is almost universally agreed that WM recruited Stinson and Blalock for the LE era. Neither CS or WB has ever been called a less than hard worker with a strong desire to win, and they were WM recruits. Why do you and others suppose that would change when wayne took the reigns of the program. When did he suddenly decide to stop recruiting hard woking kids who wanted to win, with the obvious exceptions that are often made of CJ, marsden, and Clark?
Talent is all over the place these days? really? for every george mason, an exceptionally senior laden team with a very good recruiting area, there are about 50 SWMST or whoever you will. We hear about the small schools making good, but we don't hear about the 250 other D1 teams who are not in a major conference or making good that specific year. They all have players, even Denvelr had a stud this year, but it takes more than one talented players and a buch of sub-par players to win at our level. The "role-players" on the LE teams would have been stars had they gone to a school like Denver or a similar school, but at ISU they are not regarded as star players.
Finally the teams you listed, most have completely different styles of D, UCLA is terribly boring, and the other teams score a ton. If we score 72+ per, I will be much more happy than I am now. All we know for sure is what has happened in the past, and regardless of what he may say, mcd ran/runs a tedious offense. One last thing, in 2005 WM's d was better in most every category than mcd's 06 d.
 

CYTIME

Member
Apr 3, 2006
200
2
18
Various posters will hop on here and try to get a rise out of everyone by being negative. It appears it's working. So, whenever you see a certain poster, just ignore it and hope that one day they'll actually move out of their parent's basement.
 

CyLyte

Member
Apr 11, 2006
61
0
6
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Funny thing, i seem to remember the same thing in 04-05 in the morgan era. Even last year there were signs of it from time to time, when the first trap hit, they throw it to the closest possible player who was inexplicitly a center, and the other shoe dropped resulting in a steal for a fast break dunk. I remember Larry's second to last year when we couldn't win to save our souls and the games were just terrible to watch, but noone wanted to fire larry for that, he just didn't have the right players.
I find it funny that the players that left, in the common opinion of the common people on this board, didn't have a work ethic or desire to win. However it is almost universally agreed that WM recruited Stinson and Blalock for the LE era. Neither CS or WB has ever been called a less than hard worker with a strong desire to win, and they were WM recruits. Why do you and others suppose that would change when wayne took the reigns of the program. When did he suddenly decide to stop recruiting hard woking kids who wanted to win, with the obvious exceptions that are often made of CJ, marsden, and Clark?
Talent is all over the place these days? really? for every george mason, an exceptionally senior laden team with a very good recruiting area, there are about 50 SWMST or whoever you will. We hear about the small schools making good, but we don't hear about the 250 other D1 teams who are not in a major conference or making good that specific year. They all have players, even Denvelr had a stud this year, but it takes more than one talented players and a buch of sub-par players to win at our level. The "role-players" on the LE teams would have been stars had they gone to a school like Denver or a similar school, but at ISU they are not regarded as star players.
Finally the teams you listed, most have completely different styles of D, UCLA is terribly boring, and the other teams score a ton. If we score 72+ per, I will be much more happy than I am now. All we know for sure is what has happened in the past, and regardless of what he may say, mcd ran/runs a tedious offense. One last thing, in 2005 WM's d was better in most every category than mcd's 06 d.
[/b][/quote]

Here's some stats for you to chew on discom. In 2004-2005, ISU averaged 68.1 points per game and our opponents averaged 64.7. That same year UNI averaged 72.2 points per game and their opponents averaged 66.5. Now, you said Waynes 2005 defense was better in most categories than GMac's in 2006. Well, it was except the most important one. In 2006, UNI scored 65.6 points per game and allowed only 57.8. Since it's hard for you I'll explain 57.8 is 6.90 points per game LESS than what Wayne's team averaged in 2005. A couple interesting things there, GMac hit your 72 point magic number in 2005 and Wayne didn't yet 2005 was the only year Wayne made it to the NCAA Tourney. We don't even want to look at this years stats for Wayne because they are atrocious. We averaged about 74 points but gave up 78. Once again you're talking out your ass without really kowing anything. Just another blow hard free board complainer.
 
Apr 10, 2006
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Who says points allowed is anywhere near the most important stat. You see waynes teams averaged several more possesions per game due to the higher pace of the game. This allowed the other team more possessions as well. More possessions=more shots, the more shots the more points (unless you are AI). You can look at points allowed, but it is only part of the equation.
 

CyLyte

Member
Apr 11, 2006
61
0
6
I would think points allowed is quite important to those of us who are more concerned with winning than "scoring 72". In Waynes three years only his 2005 team held opponents under 72 points ON AVERAGE. Wayne's best year was only a point and a half or so under GMac's worst year in the same three year period. In 2006 Waynes team gave up 17 points ON AVERAGE more then GMac's. Should I look some more of this stuff up for you or are you getting the picture yet? Wayne's team's weren't great defensively. Without Homan and Vroman(who he did not recruit) they were bad rebounders and bad defenders.
 

Wesley

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2006
70,923
546
113
Omaha
Many of those same rebounders and defenders are still on the team. It will be interesting what the stats bring this year. If wee did not have Will and Curtis rebounding, it would have been a longer year. All the other teams had to do was throw the ball up and go get the rebounds to score.
 

shildreth

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2006
1,164
26
48
Phoenix, AZ
Is this really how we want this site to continue?? When this started it was fantastic. Full of cyclone news, Big XII news and updates relating to our beloved cyclones. Since then it has become a complete b*tch fest. "My opinion is better than yours therefore you are a complete moron." I have to tell you I am not interested in reading back and forth dialogue between people trying to flex their muscles over the internet. Grow up! If someone doesn't care for another's opinion step back take a deep breathe, call that person an idiot in your mind; but for god's sake don't make each post worthless banter just so you can feel superior over another via the internet.

Can I make a suggestion? That we get back to posting cyclone related information about our new recruits, conference changes, facility upgrades, athletic schedules and/or our competitors news. Let's bring it back to the top quality site it was intended for instead of a myspace-esque garbage board.

Just my two cents. ;)
 
Apr 10, 2006
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I would think points allowed is quite important to those of us who are more concerned with winning than "scoring 72". In Waynes three years only his 2005 team held opponents under 72 points ON AVERAGE. Wayne's best year was only a point and a half or so under GMac's worst year in the same three year period. In 2006 Waynes team gave up 17 points ON AVERAGE more then GMac's. Should I look some more of this stuff up for you or are you getting the picture yet? Wayne's team's weren't great defensively. Without Homan and Vroman(who he did not recruit) they were bad rebounders and bad defenders.
[/b][/quote]
Once again, your weak stat means nothing. Points allowed is only a small part of a much larger picture. Things like turnovers, shot percentages, shots taken, shots allowed, all combined mean so much more that points allowed. You can throw any number out there with no substantiation and say that it is good or bad, polotitions do it all the time. Example, the biggest lie out there, we are lucky to be paying 2.60 a gallon for gas, europe pays more than that a litre. What they always forget to mention is the reason europe pays so much more is they have ENORMOUS taxes per litre to pay for all of their social programs and to make up for the lack of some other taxes we enjoy. In the same way, if wayne allowed 80 points a game, that sounds bad, unless you look at the fact that his team scored 95 a game. you cannot just use one number that is dependent on a lot of other numbers to create context for what that number means.
 

benjay

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2006
5,141
372
83
Wayne's team got outscored last season. That is not a meaningless stat.
 

CyLyte

Member
Apr 11, 2006
61
0
6
Nice, lets talk about gas prices to ignore the issue of GMac actually being a good coach and better than Wayne. If you don't want to talk stats now let's just talk realities. GMac took a program with ONE tourney appearance all time to three straight NCAA Tourney's two of them by "at large" births from a mid major conference. Wayne got us to one NCAA Tourney by at large birth period. At what point does it click in your mind that we have the better coach now?
 
Apr 10, 2006
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to the prior two posts.
1) I was not talking about last year, don't just jump into the middle of a conversation.
2) Actually it hlas a lot to do with the argument that opponents scoring average is the only stat to look at. Wayne took a program that won 12 games 2 years prior, 16 and a early NIT loss to Iowa the year prior, a national scandal (not this d1 bs only reported by one person) and took them to the final four of the NIT (after an NCAA snub) and a second round apperance in the NCAA. He averaged 18 wins a year and it was only that low because of last year. What did Larry do in his third year btw?
I guess it will "click in my mind" right about the time mcd does anything. I have seen absolutely 0 proof he is the better coach, and would hate to have to come back here in 3 years after suffering through 3 waldenesque years, i hope he does great, I just don't blindly believe he is the best thing ever.
 

CyLyte

Member
Apr 11, 2006
61
0
6
Maybe you could explain to us then why you feel the need to throw personal insults at him. You are right he has not coached a game here yet(far cry form not doing anything however) but yet you're already labeling him a bust. Why does he not get the benefit of the doubt in May of his first year?
 

isucy86

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2006
9,141
7,736
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Dubuque
Stats Can be Manipulated

Points scored or points given up are pretty meaningless. There are successful coaches who ran up tempo systems and there are great coaches who ran deliberate systems. If I looked at the 05/06 season, the Cyclones struggled because our FG% defense was horrid. Opponents made 46.5% of their shots against the Cyclones. An average defense allows opponents to shoot around 42% from the field and great defenses hold opponents in the high 30's.

Only time will tell if Jamie Pollard made the right decision to fire WM. If basketball was the only consideration, I think most Cyclone fans would agree that JP had a quick trigger. WM probably deserved another year to prove 05/06 was a fluke and he could get ISU back to NCAA Tourneys.

However, I think JP looked at 2 things:
1) The D1 Scheduling scandal. JMO but there is no way WM didn't know the LACC Coach was running a scam. The scam allowed WM & staff to avoid scrutiny, but dragged ISU through the mud.
2) Effort and fundamentals aren't things a coach can change from season to season. JP didn't like the product and decided we'd be in the same boat in March 2007.

WM isn't coming back and G-Mac isn't going anywhere for 4 years. So complaining about G-Mac is pretty futile.