Positive *Informative* Covid News

[cycloneG]

Honest, good faith question here. Any study showing the benefits of mask wearing is based on purely anecdotal evidence. These aren't clinically controlled, double blind studies proving the effectiveness of mask wearing. As far as I know, those studies have never been performed (it's impossible, since the test subjects would obviously know whether they are wearing a mask or not).

So, why is it that mask wearing is widely accepted by medical experts as effective, but hydroxychloroquine isn't, when there is massive anecdotal evidence that it works when given early on in an infection at the right dosage?

Couple studies showing effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine:

Low-dose hydroxychloroquine therapy and mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19: a nationwide observational study of 8075 participants

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been largely used and investigated as therapy for COVID-19 across various settings at a total dose usually ranging from 2…

www.sciencedirect.com

Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST study

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was proposed as potential treatment for COVID-19.We set-up a multicenter Italian collaboration to investigate the relationshi…

www.sciencedirect.com

Fewer side effects?

FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19

Does not affect FDA-approved uses for malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis

www.fda.gov

 

[madguy30]

Honest, good faith question here. Any study showing the benefits of mask wearing is based on purely anecdotal evidence. These aren't clinically controlled, double blind studies proving the effectiveness of mask wearing. As far as I know, those studies have never been performed (it's impossible, since the test subjects would obviously know whether they are wearing a mask or not).

So, why is it that mask wearing is widely accepted by medical experts as effective, but hydroxychloroquine isn't, when there is massive anecdotal evidence that it works when given early on in an infection at the right dosage?

Couple studies showing effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine:

Low-dose hydroxychloroquine therapy and mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19: a nationwide observational study of 8075 participants

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been largely used and investigated as therapy for COVID-19 across various settings at a total dose usually ranging from 2…

www.sciencedirect.com

Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST study

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was proposed as potential treatment for COVID-19.We set-up a multicenter Italian collaboration to investigate the relationshi…

www.sciencedirect.com

The attainability of masks is one.

People with chronic issues that use masks...will still be able to use masks.

People that were using HCQ for their chronic conditions that it's clinically used for...have been facing a shortage.

 

[isutrevman]

Fewer side effects?

FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19

Does not affect FDA-approved uses for malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis

www.fda.gov

Maybe. The side effects for hydroxychloroquine appear to be pretty insignificant though when it's given for a short period of time. Also, for the most part, experts don't say "masks may or may not work, but there is no harm in wearing on". They almost exclusively say "masks work, you need to be wearing them".

Also, I think there are valid arguments for the negative psychological effect of making children wear masks, especially to school.

 

[isutrevman]

The attainability of masks is one.

People with chronic issues that use masks...will still be able to use masks.

People that were using HCQ for their chronic conditions that it's clinically used for...have been facing a shortage.

That's fine, but that's not really given as a reason. The reason stated pretty much every time is "We don't have the clinical trials to support the use of hydroxychloroquine. Any evidence we have is purely anecdotal".

 

[cycloneG]

Maybe. The side effects for hydroxychloroquine appear to be pretty insignificant though when it's given for a short period of time. Also, for the most part, experts don't say "masks may or may not work, but there is no harm in wearing on". They almost exclusively say "masks work, you need to be wearing them".

Higher participation rate when stated the second way. The CDC even states it here:

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

"Additional data in today’s MMWR showed that immediately after the White House Coronavirus Task Force and CDC advised Americans to wear cloth face coverings when leaving home, the proportion of U.S. adults who chose to do so increased"

 

[madguy30]

NZ should move to similar approach to COVID as Sweden: WHO special envoy Dr David Nabarro suggests

Ryan's interview with Dr David Nabarro, a special envoy of The World Health Organisation (one of six) specializing in COVID-19

www.magic.co.nz

On a phone so not sure if that link will show up. WHO telling New Zealand to follow Sweden model. So shouldn’t the rest of us do the same?

edit: yay it worked. New CF is better CF!!!!

I can't think of a gif for what the WHO and CDC have been during this time...pinball machine? That part in Who Framed Roger Rabbit where him and Eddie are arguing 'You do! I don't! You do! I don't!...You don't! I do!' and Roger takes a shot of whiskey?

 

[isutrevman]

Higher participation rate when stated the second way. The CDC even states it here:

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

"Additional data in today’s MMWR showed that immediately after the White House Coronavirus Task Force and CDC advised Americans to wear cloth face coverings when leaving home, the proportion of U.S. adults who chose to do so increased"

I agree. There would also likely be a higher number of doctors using hydroxychloroquine if it was pushed by the CDC and FDA, and fewer people dying as a result.

 

[CloneJD]

Interesting read on herd immunity slowing doing the virus significantly at about 20% infection levels:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ccda40-d80e-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html

 

[BCClone]

Interesting read on herd immunity slowing doing the virus significantly at about 20% infection levels:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ccda40-d80e-11ea-930e-d88518c57dcc_story.html

This is similar to NY. They are reporting very few cases of it now.

 

[madguy30]

That's fine, but that's not really given as a reason. The reason stated pretty much every time is "We don't have the clinical trials to support the use of hydroxychloroquine. Any evidence we have is purely anecdotal".

Well anecdotally I have a loved one who used it and if a shortage continues, will be in a whole bunch of pain, so I'll take that as a good enough reason.

If supplies were different and planned out for a large amount of people to have access, there were parameters set up, like people being informed of doses and abiding by them, etc., it would be different. Instead it was seemingly pushed as some sort of magic fix that everyone should just go out and get.

 

[Cyientist]

Honest, good faith question here. Any study showing the benefits of mask wearing is based on purely anecdotal evidence. These aren't clinically controlled, double blind studies proving the effectiveness of mask wearing. As far as I know, those studies have never been performed (it's impossible, since the test subjects would obviously know whether they are wearing a mask or not).

So, why is it that mask wearing is widely accepted by medical experts as effective, but hydroxychloroquine isn't, when there is massive anecdotal evidence that it works when given early on in an infection at the right dosage?

Couple studies showing effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine:

Low-dose hydroxychloroquine therapy and mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19: a nationwide observational study of 8075 participants

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been largely used and investigated as therapy for COVID-19 across various settings at a total dose usually ranging from 2…

www.sciencedirect.com

Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST study

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was proposed as potential treatment for COVID-19.We set-up a multicenter Italian collaboration to investigate the relationshi…

www.sciencedirect.com

I'm not sure you need double blind studies with a physical process like a mask compared to a biological process that caries a risk of side effects. There are a lot less variables to control, so you can use a simpler before/after testing method. Look at amount of viral load, or particles as a proxy, being spread without a mask on and then with a mask on.

 

[Cyientist]

Non-N95 masks “ better than nothing”

Effectiveness of cloth masks depends on type of covering

Months into the COVID-19 pandemic, wearing a mask while out in public has become the recommended practice. However, many still question the effectiveness of this.

phys.org

Agreed, and it seems from that article a lot better than nothing.

"An uncovered cough, in contrast, can travel up to 3 meters, but even a simple disposable mask can bring this all the way down to 0.5 meters."

 

[cycloneG]

As a golf fan/player, I like seeing this

The golf business is booming during the pandemic: Morning Brief

Top news and what to watch in the markets on Thursday, August 27, 2020.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[reignofthetiger]

I'm not sure you need double blind studies with a physical process like a mask compared to a biological process that caries a risk of side effects. There are a lot less variables to control, so you can use a simpler before/after testing method. Look at amount of viral load, or particles as a proxy, being spread without a mask on and then with a mask on.

Agreed, is a double blind study even possible when directly measuring something physical like aerosols?! Is the person wearing the mask going to be completely unaware that they are one of the subjects actually wearing a mask? There is no placebo effect. You could potentially do a blind measurement of aerosols by the researcher, but that would be unnecessary if a direct measurement is obtained - just like there would be no need to do a blind study of heights within a group of people. It is what it is.

And there are more and more studies being released regarding the effectiveness of various masks for reducing aerosols and viral load. I honestly can't recall a reputable study concluding that "masks are bad." Masks may not be a perfect solution, but it is undoubtedly part of the solution.

For reader enjoyment, here's a great literature review citing a huge number of studies covering almost all aspects of mask wearing in relation to COVID-19:

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

 

[isutrevman]

Well anecdotally I have a loved one who used it and if a shortage continues, will be in a whole bunch of pain, so I'll take that as a good enough reason.

If supplies were different and planned out for a large amount of people to have access, there were parameters set up, like people being informed of doses and abiding by them, etc., it would be different. Instead it was seemingly pushed as some sort of magic fix that everyone should just go out and get.

I agree, it's not a magic fix, and not everyone should take it, or needs to take it. However, the best information I've been able to gather suggests at risk people (anyone over 60) should use it at the first sign of symptoms or when first diagnosed. People under 60 and without pre-existing conditions probably should not use it. That would help with some of the shortage issue. Unfortunately, it hasn't been framed that way. It's been either "everyone should take it" or "no one should take it".

 

[Jmarsh13]

98.5% specificity sounds great, but if you test 10,000 people, you will find 150 cases, even if no one has the virus. Unless, of course, a positive test is backed up by a second positive test.

With the test being cheap and fast it would make sense to re-test all initial positive test results to rule out false positives on the spot.

 

[madguy30]

As a golf fan/player, I like seeing this

The golf business is booming during the pandemic: Morning Brief

Top news and what to watch in the markets on Thursday, August 27, 2020.

finance.yahoo.com

Sales for bicycles, kayaks, etc. sales last I knew are up which most years would kind of annoy me as it means more crowds, but for this it's been good seeing people finding ways to find healthy routes.

 

[Jmarsh13]

Mask mandate working well in Ohio. Hopefully more states make this move.

Coronavirus cases down 31% in first month since mask mandate

In the month since the Ohio Department of Health issued a mask requirement in the state, the spread of COVID-19 has dropped by more than 31%, as measured by a seven-day moving average of new cases.

www.news5cleveland.com

In Texas the mask mandate went into effect in early July. Cases peaked about 2 weeks later and have been on a downward trend since then. Only other change was to re-close bars and scale back indoor dining back to 50% capacity. Hospitalization rates also back down to 50% of peak.

 

[boone7247]

More info for the mask debate.

 

[clonedude]

More info for the mask debate.

So what causes the spread of this virus? There's evidence that masks help prevent droplets from shooting out very far from your mouth and nose, but maybe it isn't spread through droplets?

I'm not sure how else it would spread though?