Playing for metrics or end of year health and success

[syclonefan]

It isn't better but why can't you do both?

Because if you can get better metrics you can get a better seed.

I’m not saying bench guys shouldn’t play. I love watching those guys when they come in but the backups get better experience practicing against the first team going hard vs playing against bottom 50 team who isn’t trying cause they are down by 30 points.

 

[3TrueFans]

Ok well, let's look at this upcoming season. We have 4 major minute eaters retuning. With 4 incoming freshman and potential 5 transfer roster spots open who gets pushed out? I know there will be a lot of people pissing and moaning that they aren't getting playing time and team looks exhausted in Feb and all that ********.

That doesn't really answer the question.

 

[syclonefan]

It isn't just about injuries. It's about getting guys familiar with the game-time environment so they are better ready to play if needed.

Game time environment is the first 35 minutes of a game not the final 5 against a bottom feeder team.

If Nojus couldn’t figure out how to play defense against Tamin, Curt, and Keshon in practice, an extra 5 minutes against Jackson St isn’t going to either.

 

[SCNCY]

The question is does do you sacrifice a 30 point win for a 20 point win and have a lower kenpom as a result in order to prepare your bench for later in the season?

Personally, getting the better seed would be nice, but our team didn’t peak when it needed to at the end of the season like how some others have.

 

[SoleCyclone]

That doesn't really answer the question.

I guess as far as this last year is concerned Watson not getting really any minutes in the early games was odd. Nojus got time in Maui and looked pretty good. After that it seemed like he was shut down even through the time when Heise was really struggling.
That would be a 10 deep team even if some are only spelling for 3-5min.

 

[3TrueFans]

I guess as far as this last year is concerned Watson not getting really any minutes in the early games was odd. Nojus got time in Maui and looked pretty good. After that it seemed like he was shut down even through the time when Heise was really struggling.
That would be a 10 deep team even if some are only spelling for 3-5min.

Watson is a junior that hasn't ever shown he can produce, I think the staff knows pretty well what he's capable of at this point.

I don't think Nojus is better than Kelderman at this point, so maybe Kelderman gets a few more minutes in the non-con?

We were just not a team capable of going 10 deep this year and I doubt a few more minutes in November is changing that.

 

[ghyland7]

It's never this simple or binary.

However, in general I agree: I would take a couple more losses and a worse seed in the NCAA, if it meant we would be healthy at the end of the year. I just don't think you can manage those things in a binary fashion.

Seeds don't really matter, just need to make the tourney.

Literally every cyclone fan would take a lower seed to be healthy, but the point is that the OP is making an assertion that giving more minutes to Nojus and Rock would have CAUSED them to be better players and/or prevent injuries.

This literally isn’t true. Giving Nojus extra minutes against northwest Alaska state for the blind won’t magically turn him into a big 12 contributing level player.

Nojus and Rock aren’t playing because they aren’t as good at giving a chance to win. This entire thread is “PUT IN TILLER.”

 

[Bigman38]

I'm skeptical on any strategy that starts with "play worse basketball". If it turns out TJ is benching Big 12 level players in favor of a tighter rotation then I'll eat crow but nothing in past teams has suggested that's the case.

 

[SoleCyclone]

I'm skeptical on any strategy that starts with "play worse basketball". If it turns out TJ is benching Big 12 level players in favor of a tighter rotation then I'll eat crow but nothing in past teams has suggested that's the case.

TJs record is .500 through February and March in his career. Obviously we are all just idiots on a message board but I'm just spitballing how the team can consistently navigate the season.

 

[jbhtexas]

Game time environment is the first 35 minutes of a game not the final 5 against a bottom feeder team.

If Nojus couldn’t figure out how to play defense against Tamin, Curt, and Keshon in practice, an extra 5 minutes against Jackson St isn’t going to either.

Stepping on the floor in front of 14,000 people, no matter what point in the game it is, is different than, and can't be simulated by, practicing in an empty gym. No doubt coming into the latter stages of a blowout is different than coming into a nail-biter, but how does it hurt for guys to at least some idea of what their emotional state will be like when playing in front of a big crowd?

BYU was probably underseeded at a 6. If they were say seeded as a 4 and made it to the Sweet 16, they would now have to play the 1. As it is, they now get to play the 2 seed instead. Which is better? It seems that chasing a couple of seed spots is really of limited value. I'd rather do whatever I can to have a healthy team and my backup guys with some game experience in the case that I need them.

 

[madguy30]

Literally every cyclone fan would take a lower seed to be healthy, but the point is that the OP is making an assertion that giving more minutes to Nojus and Rock would have CAUSED them to be better players and/or prevent injuries.

This literally isn’t true. Giving Nojus extra minutes against northwest Alaska state for the blind won’t magically turn him into a big 12 contributing level player.

Nojus and Rock aren’t playing because they aren’t as good at giving a chance to win. This entire thread is “PUT IN TILLER.”

And the second either of them gets hurt from stepping on someone's foot and has to miss two months it'll be 'Well there goes the depth! Why even play them and risk the starters not being conditioned enough to finish games!?'.

And anyone that doesn't think this can happen should go watch Hawley's 30 seconds in November game that led to him not even suiting up for a long while.

 

[madguy30]

Stepping on the floor in front of 14,000 people, no matter what point in the game it is, is different than, and can't be simulated by, practicing in an empty gym. No doubt coming into the latter stages of a blowout is different than coming into a nail-biter, but how does it hurt for guys to at least some idea of what their emotional state will be like when playing in front of a big crowd?

BYU was probably underseeded at a 6. If they were say seeded as a 4 and made it to the Sweet 16, they would now have to play the 1. As it is, they now get to play the 2 seed instead. Which is better? It seems that chasing a couple of seed spots is really of limited value. I'd rather do whatever I can to have a healthy team and my backup guys with some game experience in the case that I need them.

BYU was 24/25 in Kenpom/NET so by those a 6 is about right.

 

[jbhtexas]

Literally every cyclone fan would take a lower seed to be healthy, but the point is that the OP is making an assertion that giving more minutes to Nojus and Rock would have CAUSED them to be better players and/or prevent injuries.

This literally isn’t true. Giving Nojus extra minutes against northwest Alaska state for the blind won’t magically turn him into a big 12 contributing level player.

Nojus and Rock aren’t playing because they aren’t as good at giving a chance to win. This entire thread is “PUT IN TILLER.”

It will, however, probably help him be better prepared for the next time he has to play in a game. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[jbhtexas]

And the second either of them gets hurt from stepping on someone's foot and has to miss two months it'll be 'Well there goes the depth! Why even play them and risk the starters not being conditioned enough to finish games!?'.

And anyone that doesn't think this can happen should go watch Hawley's 30 seconds in November game that led to him not even suiting up for a long while.

Ummm....no.

 

[Bigman38]

It will, however, probably help him be better prepared for the next time he has to play in a game. Why is that a bad thing?

Because that next game won’t be for ISU

 

[Cyhig]

And the second either of them gets hurt from stepping on someone's foot and has to miss two months it'll be 'Well there goes the depth! Why even play them and risk the starters not being conditioned enough to finish games!?'.

And anyone that doesn't think this can happen should go watch Hawley's 30 seconds in November game that led to him not even suiting up for a long while.

That was such a weird injury, too. I still don't know how he injured himself.

Fact of the matter is injuries are bound to happen to every team. Otz's first 3 years were largely injury free seasons. The injury bug hit the team hard this year. IT HAPPENS. Look at Juju. Did she tear her ACL because she played too many minutes?

Yes, it sucks when your team has injuries, especially to key players. But it's athletics. Injuries are bound to happen eventually

 

[madguy30]

Ummm....no.

You don't think a few would have that take?

Look at the meltdowns over guys not getting 5 minutes in November or thinking Gilbert should have sat in January which would have likely meant losses.

 

[jbhtexas]

You don't think a few would have that take?

Look at the meltdowns over guys not getting 5 minutes in November or thinking Gilbert should have sat in January which would have likely meant losses.

No, I honestly really don't.

 

[BCClone]

Who do you think the 2nd team is going against in practice? The managers?

5 minutes of game experience against Mississippi Valley State isn’t better than practicing against a top 10 team and it’s not the reason Nojus, Rock, etc didn’t develop over the last year.

I disagree. Those five minutes at the end of the game you’re going against players you’re not used to, in practice you’re not just playing your game. You are running what the other teams doing that you will play, you’re not really getting exposure to what you can do, you are doing what every other team does, but yours

 

[jbhtexas]

Because that next game won’t be for ISU

If he does go somewhere else, why is it a bad thing that he improved in some respect as a player while at ISU?