***Official 2024 Chicago Cubs Thread***

Clonefan32

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Jed spent so much time wanting to avoid a Heyward contract (which I think we can officially call an infrastructure issue) he didn’t realize the stupidity in giving two average at best corner outfielders No Trade Clauses when he ALREADY had a farm full of outfielders projected to be ready by the time Happ/Suzukis contracts were up.

This is my exact thought. The last 3 offseasons when they've made themselves out to buy buyers they were realistically targeting about the 6th best guy at each position group they needed. Dansby, Seiya, Shota, Smyly, Stroman, Taillion, Beli, etc.

When you try to go cheap and home-grown in several spots, you have to supplement it with stars. But you are supplementing your very average cheap guys with very average more expensive guys. And this is what you get.
 
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Clark

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This is my exact thought. The last 3 offseasons when they've made themselves out to buy buyers they were realistically targeting about the 6th best guy at each position group they needed. Dansby, Seiya, Shota, Smyly, Stroman, Taillion, Beli, etc.

When you try to go cheap and home-grown in several spots, you have to supplement it with stars. But you are supplementing your very average cheap guys with very average more expensive guys. And this is what you get.

I agree and has been my chief complaint each of the last two years. Corey Seager was who I wanted the Cubs to sign two years ago. The accountant in me sees the value in paying Swansen half the contract Seager signed but you can't do that for every position.

The other issue is if you choose to spread your money out rather than go the stars and veterans minimum route you really need to do a better job of evaluating talent.
 

CyState85

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Two things just because I've heard them as nauseum here and other places...

-Happ is not waving the NTC no matter what happens on the field. He took a less than market value deal specifically for the NTC because he wants to be in Chicago and has several outside business ventures.

-You can't pull the plug on Swanson (who is performing as the exact player you signed, an defense first SS with around a league average bat that strikes out a lot) and then turn around and tell free agents that you're the right franchise for them. You spent $177M on him not $300M+ and you're getting commensurate results.

The Cubs FO has made Cub fans think that perfectly reasonable deals are giant free agent contracts because they refuse to bid on actual superstars.
Happ may be pressed into accepting a trade or risk being essentially out of baseball by the end of his current deal. He isn’t slugging .400 right now and his whiff rate is going way up. He will hit FA at 32 and won’t be an everyday player for the Cubs by then.
 

04clone

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This is my exact thought. The last 3 offseasons when they've made themselves out to buy buyers they were realistically targeting about the 6th best guy at each position group they needed. Dansby, Seiya, Shota, Smyly, Stroman, Taillion, Beli, etc.

When you try to go cheap and home-grown in several spots, you have to supplement it with stars. But you are supplementing your very average cheap guys with very average more expensive guys. And this is what you get.
This is spot-on. The primary benefit of having a strong farm system is not necessarily to develop megastars. It's to avoid needing to pay a premium for average free agents at positions of need and to use as currency to trade for actual stars. E.g., can you develop a Javier Assad so you don't need to pay $18M per year for Jameson Taillon? Develop a Jeremy Pena so you don't need to pay $23M per year for Dansby Swanson. Your minor league system probably isn't going to develop many superstars, so you need to either use prospects to get the true stars (and extend them) or pay top dollar for them.

IMO, none of the Cubs current prospects are going to be much beyond solid major leaguers. They need to be using a bunch of those guys to "buy" stars via trade.
 

TClone99

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Two things just because I've heard them as nauseum here and other places...

-Happ is not waving the NTC no matter what happens on the field. He took a less than market value deal specifically for the NTC because he wants to be in Chicago and has several outside business ventures.

-You can't pull the plug on Swanson (who is performing as the exact player you signed, an defense first SS with around a league average bat that strikes out a lot) and then turn around and tell free agents that you're the right franchise for them. You spent $177M on him not $300M+ and you're getting commensurate results.

The Cubs FO has made Cub fans think that perfectly reasonable deals are giant free agent contracts because they refuse to bid on actual superstars.
Well said! GMs who refuse to ever make a deal that might be just a bit irrational will likely never win anything. The Heyward deal didn’t look great at the end but he was on a team that won a WS. I thought the point of saving money during the suck part of a rebuild is so you could be a little loose with the spending when the time comes. That time was this past offseason.
 
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Clonefan32

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This is spot-on. The primary benefit of having a strong farm system is not necessarily to develop megastars. It's to avoid needing to pay a premium for average free agents at positions of need and to use as currency to trade for actual stars. E.g., can you develop a Javier Assad so you don't need to pay $18M per year for Jameson Taillon? Develop a Jeremy Pena so you don't need to pay $23M per year for Dansby Swanson. Your minor league system probably isn't going to develop many superstars, so you need to either use prospects to get the true stars (and extend them) or pay top dollar for them.

IMO, none of the Cubs current prospects are going to be much beyond solid major leaguers. They need to be using a bunch of those guys to "buy" stars via trade.

The "farm system" talk gets exhausting. We've had so many guys come up and flame out over the last 5 years I don't know how you can possibly get excited about it. The major league team blows, but Matt Shaw went 2-5 against some 19 year old pitcher in Double A. So all is well.
 

CYdTracked

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Two things just because I've heard them as nauseum here and other places...

-Happ is not waving the NTC no matter what happens on the field. He took a less than market value deal specifically for the NTC because he wants to be in Chicago and has several outside business ventures.

-You can't pull the plug on Swanson (who is performing as the exact player you signed, an defense first SS with around a league average bat that strikes out a lot) and then turn around and tell free agents that you're the right franchise for them. You spent $177M on him not $300M+ and you're getting commensurate results.

The Cubs FO has made Cub fans think that perfectly reasonable deals are giant free agent contracts because they refuse to bid on actual superstars.
I posted something like this not long ago too. The mistake with Happ was done when he was given the extension and. NTC. Unless something sours with him and the organization he's not getting traded and neither is Suzuki. Trading Taillon is not a great idea either, yes he has a horrible 1st half last season but since has been a very capable middle of the rotation guy on a pretty reasonable contract. Haven't seen enough out of our young guys yet to think we can replace him internally or for similar price in free agency. Not against seeing what you can get for Morel but have to remember he is still just 25 and barely played AAA ball so he's still a work in progress. Reminds me a bit how they DFA Schwarber who was fast tracked through the minors too and had his struggles then he has been pretty productive since. Not ready to give up on him until a better option is acquired for 3B. Amaya is probably no more than a backup catcher unfortunately.

This isn't a video game where you can just trade guys at will to open up spots. The FO is at fault for poor roster construction as the best position prospects in the pipeline are mostly OF and they are blocked at the moment. Also have to wonder about the talent evaluation and minor league development in general too. Hate to think it but it wont be a quick fix unless they make some bold moves both with trades and free agency while clearing some paths to give the prospects a path to meaningful playing time in Chicago too. Just feels like they have no plan or direction of how to get back into contention like they did when Theo gutted the roster. He at least had a vision of loading up with position talent and buying pitching when they were ready. I don't see any plan like that right now, it's been mostly staying away from the monster contracts in free agency and settling for leftovers that come at a lesser price. There are some promising pieces in the minors but many of them won't have a path to an everyday job when they are ready with the current big league contracts. Not against entertaining trades for most guys if the return is worth it.
 

CYdTracked

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The "farm system" talk gets exhausting. We've had so many guys come up and flame out over the last 5 years I don't know how you can possibly get excited about it. The major league team blows, but Matt Shaw went 2-5 against some 19 year old pitcher in Double A. So all is well.
It's a valid point but some of it is how they do a poor job of managing their development and giving some of these guys the right roles and opportunities when they come up. Either let them keep getting regular playing time in the minors instead of sporadic playing time in the majors, leave them there until you can or clear a path and commit to the next part of their development which is adjusting to MLB pitching. Hard to do that when you only get a handful or so of at bats in a week.
 
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isucy86

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Horrendous send there by Harris at 3rd.
I will be curious if we don't see some adjustments to the coaching staff in season. Counsell supported Harris earlier this year on an egregious send, but at some point....

Interestingly, the Cubs paid big $$ for Craig Counsell, but all his primary coaches were with Cubs under Ross. Not sure changing just the Manager can change a locker room culture.

Guys like Suzuki, Happ and Morel can be solid players on a good team, but they should 6-9 hitters. Other than Bellinger and maybe Hoerner, the Cubs lack 1-5 hitters. Somehow the FO is going to need to fix this during the off-season. AND prospects isn't a solution.
 
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Cyclone90

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Watching recent post game pressers, it's obvious the Cubs are losing because Counsell's hat looks like he's a Little Leaguer wearing the wrong size hat.
 

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