***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***

Statefan10

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I don't think it's fair to call Grill a miss though. The kid had a ton of up side but he clearly wanted to play for TJ. His year at Iowa State more or less gave him more time to decide if UNLV would be a good fit for him. Regarding Anderson, I've always thought that there was a lot more to the story and that him leaving prior to the season starting was probably a mutual decision.
I guess it depends on how you define miss. Miss as in he was bad? Well, Grill was a freshman and looked like he could've developed into a hard working role player, so I don't think he was a miss by that definition. I will say it could be a miss due to him leaving. That's not 100% on Prohm though.
 

JVAR

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I actually agree with your whole paragraph, except the last sentence. If he is one of our best players, I doubt we are a NCAA team, but I think he showed he can be a fine complimentary player. He could be a starter on a quality team imho. His length does hurt him, but he plays decent defense and I thought his offense really started to come around by year end. You are right, I doubt he attached the rim, but I did like his little floater. I do think his 3 PT % will improve quite a bit. So, on the right team he could start, easily a rotation guy. Been trying to come up with a comparable former cyclone - pretty much drawing a blank. My first though was Jake Sullivan, but that is flawed because Jake was always a great shooter. But, except for that, similar I think.

I think Jake is a good comparison. Tre isn’t overly athletic but has solid shooting mechanics. His shot just wasn’t falling last year and I think he was forced to play more minutes and in a role than he wasn’t ready for. I think he will definitely be a solid player for us and will definitely be in the rotation. I ran into him and his grandparents at the Gateway Hotel last year after a game. Some of the nicest people I have ever met. They talked to me for about 10 minutes. His grandfather said Tre is a really good student, which is one of the reasons he choose ISU. He isn’t as small as he appears on TV. He is every bit of listed height.
 
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kentkel

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He's example 1 because he's the only example you can think of.
There have been many examples of Cyclones who had "rough" Frosh years and then blossomed into all-conference types of players. Sometimes it takes more than one year. I do understand that it becomes a little harder to do that in today's transfer-happy culture. Here are a few examples: A player averages 4 ppg, 4 ppg, 3 ppg and then over 22ppg his senior year. That player? Lafester Rhodes! Another? 2.5 ppg to almost 9ppg from Frosh to Senior & 3pt shooting from 28% to 40% in that same time frame. That person? Hurl Beechum. Mark Baugh went from 3.3 to 13.3 ppg (Frosh to Soph years). Victor Alexander from 1.7 to 19.9 ppg (Frosh to Soph). Jacy Holloway - Floyd looked to replace him each year - but that guy was nails by his junior and senior years! Not trying to argue with you because I realize that patience is much harder to have in the current CBB culture. I was just pointing out that there have been MANY Cyclones who have improved immensely as they developed within our program.
 

Statefan10

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There have been many examples of Cyclones who had "rough" Frosh years and then blossomed into all-conference types of players. Sometimes it takes more than one year. I do understand that it becomes a little harder to do that in today's transfer-happy culture. Here are a few examples: A player averages 4 ppg, 4 ppg, 3 ppg and then over 22ppg his senior year. That player? Lafester Rhodes! Another? 2.5 ppg to almost 9ppg from Frosh to Senior & 3pt shooting from 28% to 40% in that same time frame. That person? Hurl Beechum. Mark Baugh went from 3.3 to 13.3 ppg (Frosh to Soph years). Victor Alexander from 1.7 to 19.9 ppg (Frosh to Soph). Jacy Holloway - Floyd looked to replace him each year - but that guy was nails by his junior and senior years! Not trying to argue with you because I realize that patience is much harder to have in the current CBB culture. I was just pointing out that there have been MANY Cyclones who have improved immensely as they developed within our program.
I'm not talking down one generation or anything, but do you think it's rare we see that nowadays because guys that struggle after one, two, or three years end up transferring to another school instead of sticking it out?
 

kentkel

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I'm not talking down one generation or anything, but do you think it's rare we see that nowadays because guys that struggle after one, two, or three years end up transferring to another school instead of sticking it out?
Hence my post's clarification about the lack of patience in today's culture. I was trying to point out to the poster that there have been Cyclones who have improved greatly over their college careers. He (and you) are correct in the fact that we don't see that as much today - a point I readily concede.
 

Messi

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I'm not talking down one generation or anything, but do you think it's rare we see that nowadays because guys that struggle after one, two, or three years end up transferring to another school instead of sticking it out?

agree. who's the last player to have drastic FR-SR improvement? Naz?

i also feel its necessary to point out that Freshman Naz was stuck behind the following guards
  • RS SR Will Clyburn
  • RS SR Korie Lucious
  • SR Tyrus McGee
  • RS SR Chris Babb
Naz only played 124 minutes his entire freshman year. for reference, Tre Jackson played 670
 

Statefan10

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agree. who's the last player to have drastic FR-SR improvement? Naz?

i also feel its necessary to point out that Freshman Naz was stuck behind the following guards
  • RS SR Will Clyburn
  • RS SR Korie Lucious
  • SR Tyrus McGee
  • RS SR Chris Babb
Naz only played 124 minutes his entire freshman year. for reference, Tre Jackson played 670
Even though he did not play his freshman year at Iowa State, I would say the closest person to Naz would be Nick Babb. He was a fine role player his sophomore year and by his senior year he ended up being a very solid guard for us.
 

Sigmapolis

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I kind of disagree with the first sentence, I think there are lots of players that go from doing basically nothing their freshman season to becoming a great player. Guys off of the top of my head are Clayton Custer, NWB, Frank Kaminsky, and maybe even Frank Mason... Although I will say I cannot think of a lot of players that did it at Iowa State except for Naz.

One thing about Tre is I thought he improved a lot as the season went on. I think that potentially points towards more of a positive trend in the future.

My survey of non-factor freshman who develop only includes...

(1.) Cyclone freshmen
(2.) of the "modern era" (and please do not start that again) of Hoiberg and Prohm as our head coaches... that is probably the relevant era here

For that most relevant population, Naz is the only guy I can think of who was a bench scrub as a freshman who worked out to more than that.

It is just a different world now. Good players make you play them earlier, and guys usually leave early (with the assent and help of the program) if they do not have an immediate path to playing time. They want to be the star somewhere. It is what it is.

I am sure you can find examples if you look across the entire P6 in basketball, and Nick definitely developed over his five years. But none in Ames after Naz.

I am not sure Clayton Custer counts. Doing it at the MVC level is much easier than doing it at the Big 12 level. His legend is inflated because of a pretty unlikely run in the NCAA tournament. Loyola-Chicago beat #22 Miami by two, #13 Tennessee by one, and #24 Nevada-Reno by one to make the Elite Eight. Play that tournament out another hundred times, and they would never make the Final Four again, and they would be lucky to make it out of the first weekend a handful of times in the same match-ups.

So at best we have Naz for sure, Nick (qualified because he transferred in and was a scrub as a freshman at Arkansas), and maybe Custer (suspect because he never consistently proved it at the high-major level). Considering how long the list is of scrub freshman who amounted to nothing in comparison, I have my doubts many ever do.

There have been many examples of Cyclones who had "rough" Frosh years and then blossomed into all-conference types of players. Sometimes it takes more than one year. I do understand that it becomes a little harder to do that in today's transfer-happy culture. Here are a few examples: A player averages 4 ppg, 4 ppg, 3 ppg and then over 22ppg his senior year. That player? Lafester Rhodes! Another? 2.5 ppg to almost 9ppg from Frosh to Senior & 3pt shooting from 28% to 40% in that same time frame. That person? Hurl Beechum. Mark Baugh went from 3.3 to 13.3 ppg (Frosh to Soph years). Victor Alexander from 1.7 to 19.9 ppg (Frosh to Soph). Jacy Holloway - Floyd looked to replace him each year - but that guy was nails by his junior and senior years! Not trying to argue with you because I realize that patience is much harder to have in the current CBB culture. I was just pointing out that there have been MANY Cyclones who have improved immensely as they developed within our program.

These are nice stories, but they are all so long ago I do not know how much relevance they have compared to the past decade we have to work with.

I have heard all these names and how they are even now said with reverence, even if they were before my time. There is just not very much footage left of their careers and even very little in terms of statistics (never mind advanced and efficiency stats that I prefer to use when considering players). Guys used to sit behind and learn from experienced upperclassmen before taking over themselves their junior and senior years with the process renewing itself. It worked, but it is not the 1980s and early 1990s anymore.

It is just not how it works anymore. A guy is out there contributing early, or he is likely shopping himself to a level of basketball where he can be the man.
 

Messi

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Even though he did not play his freshman year at Iowa State, I would say the closest person to Naz would be Nick Babb. He was a fine role player his sophomore year and by his senior year he ended up being a very solid guard for us.

good call out. redshirt year probably helped a ton and guys like Monte, Matt, Naz to push him / lead the way.
 

Messi

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Figures. Then again recruiting sometimes this time of year is a surprise. Also, sorry I got everyone off topic with Transfer talk in this thread.

this staff is tough. they only want out there what they give to CW. I dont mean that as a dig, i mean CW seems to be the only one who has a connection with this staff and can provide "inside" info

that said, recruits love to list schools theyve heard from and that seems to be an easy way to see who isu is tied to. Level of seriousness notwithstanding.
 

Sigmapolis

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not that i can find any info on

I pray there is a late Talley surprise coming.

I would just call up the best guard available right now (even if he needs to redshirt) and try to nab him. Having him to come off it next year would be nice.

I think we mostly have to think to build towards that year anyways.
 

heitclone

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There have been many examples of Cyclones who had "rough" Frosh years and then blossomed into all-conference types of players. Sometimes it takes more than one year. I do understand that it becomes a little harder to do that in today's transfer-happy culture. Here are a few examples: A player averages 4 ppg, 4 ppg, 3 ppg and then over 22ppg his senior year. That player? Lafester Rhodes! Another? 2.5 ppg to almost 9ppg from Frosh to Senior & 3pt shooting from 28% to 40% in that same time frame. That person? Hurl Beechum. Mark Baugh went from 3.3 to 13.3 ppg (Frosh to Soph years). Victor Alexander from 1.7 to 19.9 ppg (Frosh to Soph). Jacy Holloway - Floyd looked to replace him each year - but that guy was nails by his junior and senior years! Not trying to argue with you because I realize that patience is much harder to have in the current CBB culture. I was just pointing out that there have been MANY Cyclones who have improved immensely as they developed within our program.

So Naz and then 25 years ago? I think Jackson can be a solid 3 and D guy and I hope he sticks around the program, he'll be great to have off the bench the next couple of years but I think his lack of size, quickness and PG skills really limits his ceiling.

The other thing no one ever mentions about Naz is, he had to switch positions to get on the floor. He accepted that he wasn't a PG (especially when #11 showed up) and focused on becoming a SG. IMO that would be the best thing for Tre as well and I could see him improving much more in that role than as a PG. That may be tougher for Jackson though because Naz had the luxury of physically being a SG so he could guard 1-3. Jackson isn't so lucky.
 

Drew0311

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this staff is tough. they only want out there what they give to CW. I dont mean that as a dig, i mean CW seems to be the only one who has a connection with this staff and can provide "inside" info

that said, recruits love to list schools theyve heard from and that seems to be an easy way to see who isu is tied to. Level of seriousness notwithstanding.


Yeah it's usually the recruits these days that tell us who is in the final 5. Isn't El Ellis supposed to decide very soon? He is a 2021 but it would be nice to get a good start with that recruiting
 

Statefan10

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So Naz and then 25 years ago? I think Jackson can be a solid 3 and D guy and I hope he sticks around the program, he'll be great to have off the bench the next couple of years but I think his lack of size, quickness and PG skills really limits his ceiling.

The other thing no one ever mentions about Naz is, he had to switch positions to get on the floor. He accepted that he wasn't a PG (especially when #11 showed up) and focused on becoming a SG. IMO that would be the best thing for Tre as well and I could see him improving much more in that role than as a PG. That may be tougher for Jackson though because Naz had the luxury of physically being a SG so he could guard 1-3. Jackson isn't so lucky.
I personally think that Jackson is 100% fine in the role that Prohm wants him to play. I think he knows his limitations and understands that the way he can produce the most is to be a sniper from beyond the arc, and be a pest on the defensive end. Towards the end of the year, he ended up starting to blossom into that sort of player. I think he's a team first guy, like Naz, and will end up being a fan favorite by the time he's done here.

Jackson has a good handle. You could see it while he was out there. His biggest problem though was understanding the speed of the game and the difference big time college basketball is compared to high school or AAU. That's a very good sign because due to how much he played last year, it won't take long for that to be ironed out and for him to get up to speed. That's not me saying he's going to be the starting PG, but it does mean he'll have the ability to, if needed, in the future.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Jackson is a good bench sniper on an NCAA tournament team.

I hope that is what he is/what we are his junior and senior years.
 

tclone45

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Matt Thomas was much better as a freshman than Tre Jackson was.

One was .34 FG% .34 3FG% .72 FT% 21.6 MPG 4.3 PPG 1.3 APG 1.2 TOV 0.8 SPG
Other was .36FG% .34 3FG% .67 FT% 21.2 MPG 5.5 PPG 1.1 APG 0.5 TOV 0.6 SPG

In those stats one doesn't seem much better than the other. To me Thomas is the closest comparison to Jackson in terms of Freshman year.

Also doesn't makes sense to me to knock Tre on not showing too much PG skills when he was the fourth PG on the team
 

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