New Pizza place in Ames

[bmuff]

I wouldn't even say Old Chicago because they target more the sports bar crowd and have a larger menu. Same thing with Geangelos (menu-wise). The primary competitor for Black Market would be Great Plains. Secondary competitors would be Old George's, Geangelos, Old Chicago, Jeff's Pizza (who would be very similar if they weren't targeting the campus market). I wouldn't think that Pizza Hut, Dominos, Pappa John's, Gumbys would even classify as competitors because they go after the low cost delivery market.

 

[Topshelf]

Man, a lot of stats that amount to nothing.

I like to try the restaurant out, give an opinion, and then eat at the restaurant again or not (depending on the taste, not the business itself).

Anyway, my wife and I went to Blackmarket last night. The only problem I saw, was there wasn't enough room in the place to sit and eat pizza.

My wife and I talked about whether the restaurant would succeed or not. We thought the pizza was good (not our favorite but Chicago style isn't our favorite).

I feel the restaurant is in a good situation because they are one of the few pizza joints close to Gilbert and they deliver to Gilbert. Gilbert is one of the few school districts actually growing and a lot of Ames residents are moving North of Ames. I know I'm a lazy guy and delivery will also help their cause.

The only negative we saw last night was the fact that there wasn't enough room for us to sit while we ate.... I guess you could have bigger problems in your first week... maybe the line out the door was a problem too, I guess free advertising to that "sheltered friend" that lives across the street could be a bad thing too.

It will be interesting to see how the summer treats the business.

 

[trigger1]

Then you factor in that Black Market is behind on marketing, deals, brand loyalty, quote]

Behind on brand loyalty? They haven't even been open a week! They haven't had time to build brand loyalty.

It also looks like Iowa is 3rd in pizza places per capita, further supporting my claim that there are a lot of pizza options for the size:

Pizza places per capita doesn't mean jack unless you know demand. Great example of a statistic that doesn't help explain much without knowing information about product demand, and product differentials within the market.

Guess Iowan's like pizza.

This is arguably a better hypothesis for why Iowa has "so many" pizza options. Basic supply and demand. So perhaps one of the economists on here can chase down the pizza purchase numbers. If we know that, then we can better put per capita in perspective and reasonably discuss whether we have too many, not enough, or just the right amount of pizza options. :smile:

And no, I haven't been to the new place yet. Maybe this weekend, maybe next. And as so many others have said, whether I go back and how often will depend on how I perceive the value of the product for the money I spend.

 

[mplscyclone]

?????

Looks like numbers work better for you if you don't include parts.

I'm going to count Ames pizza joints, but I'm not going to count Campustown or Downtown. Sound good?

Actually I didn't include it because the poster look at the Ames-Des Moines stats included only the city (200k for DSM instead of 500k). I followed the same methodology. I also only took the total number of pizza places in the city (non-metro) as well. So for Chicago, the number of pizza places and people are in Chicago only (non suburbs).

Like I said, I did this because one of the posters did the same with Des Moines and I wanted to keep it consistent.

If I were to use Chicago-metro it would be 9.5 million people, and 2240 pizza places. That is 1 per 4375. Compared to my previous post (1 per 3300), this actually makes my numbers look much much better.

Maybe you should think a little before you post.

 

[mplscyclone]

Then you factor in that Black Market is behind on marketing, deals, brand loyalty, quote]

Behind on brand loyalty? They haven't even been open a week! They haven't had time to build brand loyalty.



Pizza places per capita doesn't mean jack unless you know demand. Great example of a statistic that doesn't help explain much without knowing information about product demand, and product differentials within the market.



This is arguably a better hypothesis for why Iowa has "so many" pizza options. Basic supply and demand. So perhaps one of the economists on here can chase down the pizza purchase numbers. If we know that, then we can better put per capita in perspective and reasonably discuss whether we have too many, not enough, or just the right amount of pizza options. :smile:

And no, I haven't been to the new place yet. Maybe this weekend, maybe next. And as so many others have said, whether I go back and how often will depend on how I perceive the value of the product for the money I spend.

I do have a degree in Econ and turned down several high profile Econ Grad School departments to work instead, so I don't really follow what you're trying to say here....

Everything I've posted is about marginal cost and utility. I'm just stating it implicity so I don't lose those who don't know the concepts.

 

[cyco2000]

Actually I didn't include it because the poster look at the Ames-Des Moines stats included only the city (200k for DSM instead of 500k). I followed the same methodology. I also only took the total number of pizza places in the city (non-metro) as well. So for Chicago, the number of pizza places and people are in Chicago only (non suburbs).

Like I said, I did this because one of the posters did the same with Des Moines and I wanted to keep it consistent.

If I were to use Chicago-metro it would be 9.5 million people, and 2240 pizza places. That is 1 per 4375. Compared to my previous post (1 per 3300), this actually makes my numbers look much much better.

Maybe you should think a little before you post.

Maybe...but I probably won't.

 

[cybsball20]

I'll give you credit Mpls, you are certainly banging the drum... One problem though, Chicago and New York are more densely populated. To have the same ratio as DM and Ames you would have a pizza place every other store front. As it is there is one on every block...

 

[Phaedrus]

The neat thing about this argument is that it will be verifiable, probably within the next year or so, whose argument is correct.

Unfortunately, those who are posting thinking the restaurant will succeed evidently aren't familiar with time duration and will have forgotten all about the argument.

New restaurants in Ames historically don't do well. New restaurants with poor financing anywhere do poorly. Any business that starts as a partnership does poorly, long-term. Combine all three and the odds are so heavily weighted against this particular business, that the odds against its succeeding are enormous, regardless of product quality.

But we shall see.

 

[Ms3r4ISU]

I do have a degree in Econ and turned down several high profile Econ Grad School departments to work instead, so I don't really follow what you're trying to say here....

Everything I've posted is about marginal cost and utility. I'm just stating it implicity so I don't lose those who don't know the concepts.

Hmm. One of the most respected economists I know says economists are historians, and as such they're always right.
Back to the future with you.

 

[cycloneG]

I do have a degree in Econ and turned down several high profile Econ Grad School departments to work instead, so I don't really follow what you're trying to say here....

Everything I've posted is about marginal cost and utility. I'm just stating it implicity so I don't lose those who don't know the concepts.

Are these the same departments that trained the current care takers of our economy?

 

[Mr Janny]

I do have a degree in Econ and turned down several high profile Econ Grad School departments to work instead, so I don't really follow what you're trying to say here....

Everything I've posted is about marginal cost and utility. I'm just stating it implicity so I don't lose those who don't know the concepts.

So why do you think the number of pizza restaurants per capita is so high in Iowa? The stats from 2006 indicate that Iowa has gone from number 3 to number 1. Illinois ranks 22nd.
PMQ's Pizza Magazine - The #1 Pizza Trade Magazine and Official Website of the Pizza Industry

So why so high? Are all pizza proprietors in Iowa just idiots that don't understand that the market is oversaturated? Perhaps none of them had the benefit of an Econ degree when they were opening up. Shoot, I'll bet that's it.

Then again, maybe the supply is bigger in Iowa, because the demand is bigger. Don't get me wrong, I'm just a rube with no Econ degree. I don't even know the concepts of what you are talking about. Honestly, I'm just stringing words together hoping they make sense.

 

[Mr Janny]

Any business that starts as a partnership does poorly, long-term.

You're right. Who has ever heard of

The Warner Brothers
Coco Chanel and Pierre Werthheimer
Bill Hewlett and David Packer
Richard and Maurice McDonald
Bill Gates and Paul Allen
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak
Ben & Jerry


Not me. Flashes in the pan. all of em.

 

[cloneu]

The neat thing about this argument is that it will be verifiable, probably within the next year or so, whose argument is correct.

Unfortunately, those who are posting thinking the restaurant will succeed evidently aren't familiar with time duration and will have forgotten all about the argument.

New restaurants in Ames historically don't do well. New restaurants with poor financing anywhere do poorly. Any business that starts as a partnership does poorly, long-term. Combine all three and the odds are so heavily weighted against this particular business, that the odds against its succeeding are enormous, regardless of product quality.

But we shall see.

And this is why there should be a cybookie event to see if the place is still around at the end of 2010.

 

[mplscyclone]

Are these the same departments that trained the current care takers of our economy?

I will tell you that the problem with our economy has nothing to do with economists. Actually, there were economists in the middle of 2008 saying we would go into a multi-year recession and everyone laughed.

What got us into this problem is people making money and asking where the money was coming from and how. It was based on collecting origination fees on loans and then selling those risky loans off.

Really what happened is people that don't understand how economy works. They are the same type of people that think things can grow by 50% a year every year.

I actually take exception that you blame economists for this. It's really about greedy business people banking on a bubble that isn't sustainable and not really asking how or why.

There are many "economists" that are just puppets of the government and go along with whatever is popular in DC to advance their own careers.

There are several other very good ones that were talking recession, wall st collapse, etc., in 2005, 2006, and 2007 but no one was listening.

 

[mplscyclone]

I'll give you credit Mpls, you are certainly banging the drum... One problem though, Chicago and New York are more densely populated. To have the same ratio as DM and Ames you would have a pizza place every other store front. As it is there is one on every block...

I get your point. What I will say as far as banging the drum is that ISU athletics have been a big snooze. I need to do something to get all pumped up!

I actually would talk baseball but I get tired of all the Cubs talk..... I mean how many people do I need to hear give their opinon on why the Cubs are going to the WS?

In the end, I am trying to bring a different opinion (one that I believe) and am sticking to it, because it is founded on principles and facts. Apparently not a lot of people like those on this site, otherwise how could they POSSIBLY think the Cubs would win a WS??

 

[cybsball20]

I guess some guy also wanted to open a New York style pizza joint right across the street and couldn't get a loan...

 

[mplscyclone]

I guess some guy also wanted to open a New York style pizza joint right across the street and couldn't get a loan...

for real or are you joking?

 

[cybsball20]

for real or are you joking?

for real

 

[mplscyclone]

So why do you think the number of pizza restaurants per capita is so high in Iowa? The stats from 2006 indicate that Iowa has gone from number 3 to number 1. Illinois ranks 22nd.
PMQ's Pizza Magazine - The #1 Pizza Trade Magazine and Official Website of the Pizza Industry

So why so high? Are all pizza proprietors in Iowa just idiots that don't understand that the market is oversaturated? Perhaps none of them had the benefit of an Econ degree when they were opening up. Shoot, I'll bet that's it.

Then again, maybe the supply is bigger in Iowa, because the demand is bigger. Don't get me wrong, I'm just a rube with no Econ degree. I don't even know the concepts of what you are talking about. Honestly, I'm just stringing words together hoping they make sense.

What is funny is that people where saying that the market in Ames for pizza isn't as saturated as in Chicago.

What I am saying is that it's more saturated in Chicago. Based on that, it will be much more difficult to stay open.

Yes, the demand may very well be higher for pizza in Iowa. That said, is there proof of excess demand for pizza in Ames right now? Demand is higher so supply is higher. It doesn't justify opening an additional place, unless you can realistically prove that there is an amount of demand that simply isn't being met.

My argument is with having already such a high amount of places per capita, I just don't see how there could be excess demand. I guess we will see not only how that place does, but the other pizza places in town.

 

[mplscyclone]

for real

Apparently, borrowing from your 401k is the way to roll in those cases. It's the "Black Market" way lol...