New Pizza place in Ames

[trigger1]

Whoa! Time out here. It was mplscyclone who said he/she has a degree in Econ, not trigger1.

I do have a degree in Econ and turned down several high profile Econ Grad School departments to work instead, so I don't really follow what you're trying to say here....

Everything I've posted is about marginal cost and utility. I'm just stating it implicity so I don't lose those who don't know the concepts.

trigger1 just has a truckload of extra econ credits that ISU wouldn't count towards a minor at the time, plus all those wonderful stat and research and evaluation courses that come with degrees. But no econ degree, far from an expert, and didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. :smile:

So why do you think the number of pizza restaurants per capita is so high in Iowa?

Then again, maybe the supply is bigger in Iowa, because the demand is bigger.

That's what I was trying to say. I'm sorry I didn't say it as simply as jdewaard. We can talk about pizza sellers per capita all we want, but we don't know if what that number means in terms of market saturation without knowing market demand.

IF the demand for pizza is larger in any given locality (when compared to market demand as a whole), THEN it is plausible that there COULD be a good reason for a higher per capita number of pizza sellers. Alternatively, we could compare the number of sellers per capita in markets with similar demand to infer whether Ames was saturated or not. It's not always how many sellers are in the market, it's about what the market will bear. And ultimately, when starting a new business, it's what the owners of that business believe the market will bear, according to whatever market research they've done.

 

[WhiteSoxFan]

So, I haven't read through all of the posts on here because I noticed a lot of it is just bickering.
However, I ate at Black Market Pizza just last night. And being from Chicago, I know great Chicago pizza. Black Market Pizza definitley ranks at the top of the list. They have friendly service, delicious food, very reasonable prices, and food with soul to it. I reccomend that EVERYONE goes to try this new pizza place. And if you don't just because it's different than what you're used to, then you have no right to criticize something you haven't tried. Black Market Pizza is my exclusive pizza supplier for the rest of my time here at ISU.

Oh yeah, before anyone says it, Old Chicago DOES NOT do proper Chicago Style Pizza.

 

[Jer]

So, I haven't read through all of the posts on here because I noticed a lot of it is just bickering.
However, I ate at Black Market Pizza just last night. And being from Chicago, I know great Chicago pizza. Black Market Pizza definitley ranks at the top of the list. They have friendly service, delicious food, very reasonable prices, and food with soul to it. I reccomend that EVERYONE goes to try this new pizza place. And if you don't just because it's different than what you're used to, then you have no right to criticize something you haven't tried. Black Market Pizza is my exclusive pizza supplier for the rest of my time here at ISU.

Oh yeah, before anyone says it, Old Chicago DOES NOT do proper Chicago Style Pizza.

Did they pay you in cash or pizza?

:laugh:

 

[Angie]

The funny thing to me is that I thought message boards is where people sound off on their opinion.

Is what all of you want just 50 posts in a row of people saying "wow that's really good, the Chicago style is so big and awesome!".

If so, then I apologize. I have my own opinions about things and I feel like this is a site where I can do that.

Two quick items:

1. I never even said I liked the Chicago style. It is not my style of pizza. I said we got a lot of food for $7/person, and that everyone in my group who liked that style were huge fans. Let's project a little less.

2. Message boards are absolutely the place for opinions - generally people are more likely to listen to informed opinions, however. I never once said you were wrong in your opinions - in fact, check my previous post. You could be right. However, I think people are going to be more likely to listen to you if you had even tried it once. Until then, it's nothing but conjecture based off of some pics you saw on their website.

Seriously - pizza. Serious business.

 

[isucyfan]

So, I haven't read through all of the posts on here because I noticed a lot of it is just bickering.
However, I ate at Black Market Pizza just last night. And being from Chicago, I know great Chicago pizza. Black Market Pizza definitley ranks at the top of the list. They have friendly service, delicious food, very reasonable prices, and food with soul to it. I reccomend that EVERYONE goes to try this new pizza place. And if you don't just because it's different than what you're used to, then you have no right to criticize something you haven't tried. Black Market Pizza is my exclusive pizza supplier for the rest of my time here at ISU.

Oh yeah, before anyone says it, Old Chicago DOES NOT do proper Chicago Style Pizza.

You know who does proper Chicago Style Pizza?

Old Chicago.

 

[Jer]

I absolutely love pizza - but I absolutely hate anything but thin or hand tossed style (i.e. anything less than about an inch thick). I can't stand Chicago style pizza and anybody that says it's the only true style of pizza is just wacky crazy.

Besides, as much as people would like to say this restaurant is best or that one sucks - it's all just personal opinion. Some people love George's Pizza in Ames, while personally I think it tastes like dirty feet and can cause great intestinal pain due to the 99% grease content.

 

[WhiteSoxFan]

isuyfan, I can't tell if you're being ironic, or just a jerk.

 

[Jer]

I can't tell if you're being ironic, or just a jerk.

I don't know who you're referring to, but lots of us are both ironic and jerkswink:

 

[isucyfan]

I can't tell if you're being ironic, or just a jerk.

Just giving you a hard time. Sounds like you're passionate about your pies.:wink:

 

[WhiteSoxFan]

Just giving you a hard time. Sounds like you're passionate about your pies.:wink:

I'm a big guy, and I didn't get this way by eating bad, fattening food.

Also, I can deal with ironic jerks, at least there's SOME element of humor in there.

 

[C.John]

Besides, as much as people would like to say this restaurant is best or that one sucks - it's all just personal opinion. Some people love George's Pizza in Ames, while personally I think it tastes like dirty feet and can cause great intestinal pain due to the 99% grease content.

Just like this is:

I absolutely love pizza - but I absolutely hate anything but thin or hand tossed style (i.e. anything less than about an inch thick). I can't stand Chicago style pizza and anybody that says it's the only true style of pizza is just wacky crazy.

:wink:

FYI, I love Chicago Style.

 

[mplscyclone]

I absolutely love pizza - but I absolutely hate anything but thin or hand tossed style (i.e. anything less than about an inch thick). I can't stand Chicago style pizza and anybody that says it's the only true style of pizza is just wacky crazy.

I do like Chicago style pizza, but I wouldn't call it a true style of pizza at all.

I actually really like New York pizza AND pizza in Slovenia. Not joking about the Slovenia part. My g-pa lives in a small village that is just near the border of Italy and Austria. I can tell you that I have not had a better pizza than in that small village. They do it wood-fired and the crust is somewhat thin. Just awesome. I have been to mainland Italy and Sicily as well and the pizza there was decent but not as good.

I have met people who's travels are more extensive than mine agree with me about that particular pizza place however.

Anyhow, most of my rant isn't about the pizza per se. It's about the business behind the place. It frustrates me to no end when someone has a good idea but has poor execution. I would love for a Chicago Style Pizza Place to do well. I would also love for the business to run well and I just don't feel like it will.

 

[Phaedrus]

You're right. Who has ever heard of

The Warner Brothers
Coco Chanel and Pierre Werthheimer
Bill Hewlett and David Packer
Richard and Maurice McDonald
Bill Gates and Paul Allen
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak
Ben & Jerry


Not me. Flashes in the pan. all of em.

Every single one of those, as far as I can tell, stepped into a unique market at a time when it expanded. And you could make the argument that Gates/Allen/Jobs was a failed partnership.

And, even disregarding the unique conditions that allowed each partnership to succeed, people get struck by lightning every day of the week, some of them even more than once.

That doesn't make it any less or more statistically possible.

Folks with better business plans have failed in Ames.

Are you asserting that a 3-way partnership is a GOOD idea? If so, can you at least consider why it might be a bad one? Same thing to borrowing money from your 401(k), especially when considering the poor returns that restaurants often throw off?

I don't have any emotional attachment; I just think that mpls is being treated unfairly, here, by folks who really don't know their heads from their posterior when it comes to a) economics of business and b) what it takes to succeed at running a restaurant.

 

[Phaedrus]

I do like Chicago style pizza, but I wouldn't call it a true style of pizza at all.

I actually really like New York pizza AND pizza in Slovenia. Not joking about the Slovenia part. My g-pa lives in a small village that is just near the border of Italy and Austria. I can tell you that I have not had a better pizza than in that small village. They do it wood-fired and the crust is somewhat thin. Just awesome. I have been to mainland Italy and Sicily as well and the pizza there was decent but not as good.

I have met people who's travels are more extensive than mine agree with me about that particular pizza place however.

Anyhow, most of my rant isn't about the pizza per se. It's about the business behind the place. It frustrates me to no end when someone has a good idea but has poor execution. I would love for a Chicago Style Pizza Place to do well. I would also love for the business to run well and I just don't feel like it will.

X1000000

You don't know how many times I've been approached to either run a place, or to give advice on running a pizza joint by people who have good intentions, but were doomed to fail due to their lack of fundamentals.

And Bosne pizza rocks, esp. with the peppers and spiced meats.

Though the best pie I ever had was a) at The Pizza House in Ames (now defunct) and b) in a little German village in Oberpfalz called "Hemau".

Both of which are thin, or a thinnish hand tossed.

Though I could use a Chicago Pie right now. Love the feel of the crust in the mouth, and the chunks of tomatoes.

 

[mplscyclone]

Whoa! Time out here. It was mplscyclone who said he/she has a degree in Econ, not trigger1.



trigger1 just has a truckload of extra econ credits that ISU wouldn't count towards a minor at the time, plus all those wonderful stat and research and evaluation courses that come with degrees. But no econ degree, far from an expert, and didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. :smile:

I also have a math minor and poli sci minor. I also was 1 class away from a stat degree. On top of that, I work in the Actuarial profession. I think I do know some things about research, stats, numbers, reasoning, as I do this on a daily basis and get compensated pretty justly for it....

I don't understand why people with a different opinion have to try to belittle those that may have a different one? I mean, I'm not talking religion or politics. I am talking business here.

You can say it's silly for me to have opinions about the place or to "root against it", but wouldn't you then also think it's silly to defend it as well? I mean there are a fair number of people on this board that are defending the place for similar reasons as well.

 

[isucyfan]

I also have a math minor and poli sci minor. I also was 1 class away from a stat degree. On top of that, I work in the Actuarial profession. I think I do know some things about research, stats, numbers, reasoning, as I do this on a daily basis and get compensated pretty justly for it....

I don't understand why people with a different opinion have to try to belittle those that may have a different one? I mean, I'm not talking religion or politics. I am talking business here.

You can say it's silly for me to have opinions about the place or to "root against it", but wouldn't you then also think it's silly to defend it as well? I mean there are a fair number of people on this board that are defending the place for similar reasons as well.

Sounds like you need to open up a hybrid restaurant.

Maybe "Pizzaccounting...Napoli-sci style.":wink:

 

[Mr Janny]

I also have a math minor and poli sci minor. I also was 1 class away from a stat degree. On top of that, I work in the Actuarial profession. I think I do know some things about research, stats, numbers, reasoning, as I do this on a daily basis and get compensated pretty justly for it....
.

 

[Mr Janny]

Every single one of those, as far as I can tell, stepped into a unique market at a time when it expanded. And you could make the argument that Gates/Allen/Jobs was a failed partnership.

And, even disregarding the unique conditions that allowed each partnership to succeed, people get struck by lightning every day of the week, some of them even more than once.

That doesn't make it any less or more statistically possible.

Folks with better business plans have failed in Ames.

Are you asserting that a 3-way partnership is a GOOD idea? If so, can you at least consider why it might be a bad one? Same thing to borrowing money from your 401(k), especially when considering the poor returns that restaurants often throw off?

I don't have any emotional attachment; I just think that mpls is being treated unfairly, here, by folks who really don't know their heads from their posterior when it comes to a) economics of business and b) what it takes to succeed at running a restaurant.

Not once did I say that a 3-way partnership is a good idea. I was simply pointing out the obvious holes in this ridiculous claim.

Any business that starts as a partnership does poorly, long-term.
-Phaedrus

 

[Topshelf]

Why are partnerships doomed? I would like to start a restaurant one day and was wondering why that is?

 

[mplscyclone]

I wouldn't even say Old Chicago because they target more the sports bar crowd and have a larger menu. Same thing with Geangelos (menu-wise). The primary competitor for Black Market would be Great Plains. Secondary competitors would be Old George's, Geangelos, Old Chicago, Jeff's Pizza (who would be very similar if they weren't targeting the campus market). I wouldn't think that Pizza Hut, Dominos, Pappa John's, Gumbys would even classify as competitors because they go after the low cost delivery market.

I would still count Old Chicago as a competitor. I have never gone to Old Chicago and NOT ate pizza there. I also used to frequent the lunch buffet at times as well. Although it isn't "real" Chicago pizza, I like that I can go with a group of friends and they can eat something other than pizza if they don't feel up for pizza.

As far as Geangelo's goes, I know several people that live north of town that eat pizza there. Yes some may never eat pizza there, but some people going there vs the a different pizza plae.

To me, ANY place in town that does pizza is a competitor. If I'm short on cash, I order Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, go to Pizza Ranch, Valentinos, Happy Joes, get a Papa Murphys, get a frozen pizza, etc. If I have a little bit more money, I go for Jeff's, Old Chicago, etc. If I have a little more and/or there is a special occassion, I go to Great Plains.

The thing is that I am someone who likes pizza. Each time I think"I want pizza" all of the options come to my mind. The way I think of it is everytime I order Papa Johns, that's money that Pizza Hut, Jeffs, Great Plains, Old Chicago, Happy Joes, etc, isn't getting.

We are talking about pizza here, not fine dining. We're talking $10 vs. $20 vs. $30 pizza, not a $10 dinner vs. a $100 dinner. If you are trying to tell me that Black Market is going to try to take out Great Plains, I just laugh at that. Great Plains is so established and has such a good reputation in town that it isn't going anywhere. Even people I know that don't like their pizza still respect Great Plains as a business, and it's one of those places that people talk about that remind them of Ames. It's a pretty big deal to have a restaurant, a pizza place of all things, to last 30 years in this town.

I was in mpls recently and some ISU grads went on and on about Great Plains, and these were people in their 30s and 40s that hadn't been back in ages. You can't just build something like that overnight, and you can't tear it down either.

To run a successful business, you have to take out the weak businesses. You have to succeed in areas where you competitors are failing. Since Black Market has no rep, higher prices, and a less convineint and visible location, they are all on crack to think they would take Great Plains out of business. If they were to take out Great Plains then I would recommend to them they do a lot of promos and try to undercut them.

To me, I run a business to make money. I would open a business in a market that exposes inefficiencies or takes advantage of excess demand. I would pick something I do better than the competitors that the customers can pick up on. If you're in a business to just get market share, then you will lose money. Ask the automakers, airlines, and video game console makers about it....