New Pizza place in Ames

[mplscyclone]

Why are partnerships doomed? I would like to start a restaurant one day and was wondering why that is?

Partnerships often times fail because it's about relationships. Why do most marriages fail? Same thing.

See, when a partnership starts, the people all have a common goal in mind and are on the same page. The problem is that people change and times change. When things start going well, there is conflict about how to proceed forward. One guy wants to expand but the other just wants to keep things going the way they are is a common one.

When things start going bad, there are fingers that get pointed.

Sometimes people partner and go into something without knowing what it's all about. They learn the hardway and the partnership fails.

Really, you should think about why do friendships end, why to marriages typically not last, etc?

The truth of the matter is that people are filled with conflict. Conflict will arise over time no matter what. If you can't resolve it, the partnership/relationship will fail. Most people don't know to to resolve conflict. The ones that do, have successful friendships, marriages, and business partnerships. Those people are rare.

 

[cloneu]

I was thinking more of

 

[cycloneG]

I would still count Old Chicago as a competitor. I have never gone to Old Chicago and NOT ate pizza there. I also used to frequent the lunch buffet at times as well. Although it isn't "real" Chicago pizza, I like that I can go with a group of friends and they can eat something other than pizza if they don't feel up for pizza.

As far as Geangelo's goes, I know several people that live north of town that eat pizza there. Yes some may never eat pizza there, but some people going there vs the a different pizza plae.

To me, ANY place in town that does pizza is a competitor. If I'm short on cash, I order Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, go to Pizza Ranch, Valentinos, Happy Joes, get a Papa Murphys, get a frozen pizza, etc. If I have a little bit more money, I go for Jeff's, Old Chicago, etc. If I have a little more and/or there is a special occassion, I go to Great Plains.

The thing is that I am someone who likes pizza. Each time I think"I want pizza" all of the options come to my mind. The way I think of it is everytime I order Papa Johns, that's money that Pizza Hut, Jeffs, Great Plains, Old Chicago, Happy Joes, etc, isn't getting.

We are talking about pizza here, not fine dining. We're talking $10 vs. $20 vs. $30 pizza, not a $10 dinner vs. a $100 dinner. If you are trying to tell me that Black Market is going to try to take out Great Plains, I just laugh at that. Great Plains is so established and has such a good reputation in town that it isn't going anywhere. Even people I know that don't like their pizza still respect Great Plains as a business, and it's one of those places that people talk about that remind them of Ames. It's a pretty big deal to have a restaurant, a pizza place of all things, to last 30 years in this town.

I was in mpls recently and some ISU grads went on and on about Great Plains, and these were people in their 30s and 40s that hadn't been back in ages. You can't just build something like that overnight, and you can't tear it down either.

To run a successful business, you have to take out the weak businesses. You have to succeed in areas where you competitors are failing. Since Black Market has no rep, higher prices, and a less convineint and visible location, they are all on crack to think they would take Great Plains out of business. If they were to take out Great Plains then I would recommend to them they do a lot of promos and try to undercut them.

To me, I run a business to make money. I would open a business in a market that exposes inefficiencies or takes advantage of excess demand. I would pick something I do better than the competitors that the customers can pick up on. If you're in a business to just get market share, then you will lose money. Ask the automakers, airlines, and video game console makers about it....

I think I understand you now. You and I think differently about food. You're willing to pay less for a lower quality product if you can get more of it. I'm not. I don't want low quality. I want high quality food and I'm willing to pay for it. I also want variety. Ames is seriously lacking in quality pizza. I only get pizza from a few places in Ames and now I can add one more to that list. Sweet! I now have four options to choose from and each is going to fulfilll a different craving. The other three places I order from are going to lose business because of Black Market. They may run promotions to retain business but I don't care about promotions. I just want the pizza I want when I want it.

 

[mplscyclone]

I think I understand you now. You and I think differently about food. You're willing to pay less for a lower quality product if you can get more of it. I'm not. I don't want low quality. I want high quality food and I'm willing to pay for it. I also want variety. Ames is seriously lacking in quality pizza. I only get pizza from a few places in Ames and now I can add one more to that list. Sweet! I now have four options to choose from and each is going to fulfilll a different craving. The other three places I order from are going to lose business because of Black Market. They may run promotions to retain business but I don't care about promotions. I just want the pizza I want when I want it.

I am willing to get lower quality to an extent. I have some minimum standards. What I am saying is that a majority of US middle class consumers are willing to get more for less. That's how the Walmarts, Sam Clubs, Costcos, Chinese Buffets, Pizza Buffets, of the world have been doing well. The product quality often times sucks, but they give people more for less and people gobble it up.

I have no doubt there are people like you who are willing to pay more, and everything outside of the product doesn't matter. I guess I wonder if there are enough people in Ames with this mentality to keep a place's doors open?

Half the people in this town are college students, and a lot of familes are wary about going out and spending $$. I think it's a legitimate concern to open a high-end pizza place in this town in an environment where more and more are wanting more for less.

There are many restaurants that are doing much worse than last year, and a handful of them I know are geared more towards the middle class families in town and they simply are getting less of their normal customers to show up on a regular basis.

 

[cycloneG]

I am willing to get lower quality to an extent. I have some minimum standards. What I am saying is that a majority of US middle class consumers are willing to get more for less. That's how the Walmarts, Sam Clubs, Costcos, Chinese Buffets, Pizza Buffets, of the world have been doing well. The product quality often times sucks, but they give people more for less and people gobble it up.

I have no doubt there are people like you who are willing to pay more, and everything outside of the product doesn't matter. I guess I wonder if there are enough people in Ames with this mentality to keep a place's doors open?

Half the people in this town are college students, and a lot of familes are wary about going out and spending $$. I think it's a legitimate concern to open a high-end pizza place in this town in an environment where more and more are wanting more for less.

There are many restaurants that are doing much worse than last year, and a handful of them I know are geared more towards the middle class families in town and they simply are getting less of their normal customers to show up on a regular basis.

I don't really like comparing restraunts to retailers because they're a different animal. Retailers sell the exact same products for variable prices. Restraunts all provide different products for variable prices.

I agree that the size of the market right now for a place such as this isn't as large as it was a year or two ago but there are still people in that market who want some variety. I eat less pizza because I don't like having the same thing all the time. Something new may increase my pizza consumption if I like it.

 

[mplscyclone]

I don't really like comparing restaurants to retailers because they're a different animal. Retailers sell the exact same products for variable prices. Restraunts all provide different products for variable prices.

I agree that the size of the market right now for a place such as this isn't as large as it was a year or two ago but there are still people in that market who want some variety. I eat less pizza because I don't like having the same thing all the time. Something new may increase my pizza consumption if I like it.

If you want to compare restaurants, then look at the Subway $5 footlong promo they keep reinventing and extending. I like Subway, but I always felt like I overpaid for their footlong sandwiches. Def. not my favorite sandwich place, but it's "ok". Now I can get a sandwich that I like for less than what I paid before. Because of this, I have been eating Subway a little more often than I have in the past. Is Subway the best sandwich place? Heck no! But I will eat it more because I feel I get my money's worth and I like paying less than $6 for a meal that isn't going to be horrible for me.

The fact of the matter is that this is how the average family rolls. That's why fast food does well, and why things like a dollar menu or value menu at places has been so successful. This is a big reason why Hickory Park and King Buffet are so busy. Are they the best restaurants in town from a quality standpoint? No. Actually I hate King Buffet, but I can't deny it's popularity. In the end, they make the consumer feel like they are getting their money's worth and I guess that's what I am trying to say.

For you, Black Market made you feel like you got your money's worth. I just wonder if enough people in town will have that same mentality, or if some places will just it's spendy and will not go very often. I guess we will see. I am leaning towards the latter for most people though.

 

[Phaedrus]

Not once did I say that a 3-way partnership is a good idea. I was simply pointing out the obvious holes in this ridiculous claim.

While technically incorrect, (obviously ALL partnerships do not fail) It's not that ridiculous claim. It's accurate enough to be true for planning purposes. Which makes it a "good call".

Now you're just being snippy and picking at the edges of arguments.

 

[mplscyclone]

Ok so I ate there tonight. Here are my thoughts on the place:

Other than the main owner, most of the other workers are pretty rude. To say the least, not classy at all. I ordered a Chicago Style Deep Dish, and she was like "it's GOING to take 45 minutes". She said it in a way that came off as discouraging me from ordering it. I understand you want to make sure people will know it's going to take a while, but you can say it in a more pleasant way like "just so you know, the deep dish takes about 45 minutes or so. Do you want an appetizer like breadsticks or something while you wait?". Right there, she comes off as caring, plus she's upselling. Instead, she just was rude to me. You may say it's all in my head, but my wife is usually the first to call me out if I'm being rude or misinterpreting something and she complained about the lady as well.

Another thing: We ordered beer. A different lady handed me the beer with no big deal. Then we go to our table to wait, and she comes by and asks for our ID. Now, I don't mind getting carded, but having worked in the restaurant biz, this approach is pretty bad. If it were a police sting operation, the moment you hand the beer to the customer it's considered gone. You can't make up for it by coming by 5 minutes later after you've drank a little to check.

As far as the pizza goes, I will agree that it's better quality than many of the other options in town. It's pretty greasey, but there is a lot of cheese on it so it's expected. I do like the cornmeal crust but I didn't feel like it was deep enough. It seemed like kind of a shallow crust for deep dish. I actually was dissapointed with lack of crushed tomatoes on the top, as well. I get that it's a personal opinion, but the Chicago Pizzas I've had in Chicago are Giordanos and Gino's East. If you look at this picture: http://cmsof.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/gifts4.jpg, you see how there's all of the tomatoes on top that you can't even see the cheese? Also, do you see how the crust is like deep? At Black Market it just wasn't that deep of a crust. Also at Black Market all you see is mostly cheese and the tomatoes are just sprinkled on. I mean I had several bites where there were no tomatoes at all. Look at these pictures below for example. You will see what I am talking about. Again, I'm not an Chicago Deep Dish expert, but it just isn't what I am used to when I hear "Chicago Style".

Anyhow, I guess we will see if enough people like it and if they can get busy enough to stay open. I probably would eat there again, but I'd be more inclined to have someone else order, or take carryout, to avoid some of the awkward and rude workers.

In sum I tried it and agree that the pizza is pretty good. I also argued that it takes more than just a good product to stay open, so we will see what happens.

 

[josh777]

Ok so I ate there tonight. Here are my thoughts on the place:

Other than the main owner, most of the other workers are pretty rude. To say the least, not classy at all. I ordered a Chicago Style Deep Dish, and she was like "it's GOING to take 45 minutes". She said it in a way that came off as discouraging me from ordering it. I understand you want to make sure people will know it's going to take a while, but you can say it in a more pleasant way like "just so you know, the deep dish takes about 45 minutes or so. Do you want an appetizer like breadsticks or something while you wait?". Right there, she comes off as caring, plus she's upselling. Instead, she just was rude to me. You may say it's all in my head, but my wife is usually the first to call me out if I'm being rude or misinterpreting something and she complained about the lady as well.

Another thing: We ordered beer. A different lady handed me the beer with no big deal. Then we go to our table to wait, and she comes by and asks for our ID. Now, I don't mind getting carded, but having worked in the restaurant biz, this approach is pretty bad. If it were a police sting operation, the moment you hand the beer to the customer it's considered gone. You can't make up for it by coming by 5 minutes later after you've drank a little to check.

As far as the pizza goes, I will agree that it's better quality than many of the other options in town. It's pretty greasey, but there is a lot of cheese on it so it's expected. I do like the cornmeal crust but I didn't feel like it was deep enough. It seemed like kind of a shallow crust for deep dish. I actually was dissapointed with lack of crushed tomatoes on the top, as well. I get that it's a personal opinion, but the Chicago Pizzas I've had in Chicago are Giordanos and Gino's East. If you look at this picture: http://cmsof.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/gifts4.jpg, you see how there's all of the tomatoes on top that you can't even see the cheese? Also, do you see how the crust is like deep? At Black Market it just wasn't that deep of a crust. Also at Black Market all you see is mostly cheese and the tomatoes are just sprinkled on. I mean I had several bites where there were no tomatoes at all. Look at these pictures below for example. You will see what I am talking about. Again, I'm not an Chicago Deep Dish expert, but it just isn't what I am used to when I hear "Chicago Style".

Anyhow, I guess we will see if enough people like it and if they can get busy enough to stay open. I probably would eat there again, but I'd be more inclined to have someone else order, or take carryout, to avoid some of the awkward and rude workers.

In sum I tried it and agree that the pizza is pretty good. I also argued that it takes more than just a good product to stay open, so we will see what happens.

I've eaten their pizza twice and enjoyed the pies both times...great crust, similar to what you find at George's. However, I concur with the customer service assessment. I have worked in many restaurants/bars over the years and couldn't help but make a few snapshot judgements of the place. Fortunately, both times I called ahead for a carry out order or I fear I would have waited a long time for a pie. Many people appear to be "working" at the time but several are standing around doing nothing. The people working the counter are slow and not very informative or knowledgeable. The guys that went in on this venture had no, or little, restaurant biz experience and it shows. I can tell they either did very little training or trial runs with their staff or did it poorly.

Hopfully, they get this part turned around because they have a good product to sell. In the meantime, for those that have not been there I recommend ordering ahead and if you plan on eating there be prepared to wait for a table as there is little seating options.

 

[mplscyclone]

I've eaten their pizza twice and enjoyed the pies both times...great crust, similar to what you find at George's. However, I concur with the customer service assessment. I have worked in many restaurants/bars over the years and couldn't help but make a few snapshot judgements of the place. Fortunately, both times I called ahead for a carry out order or I fear I would have waited a long time for a pie. Many people appear to be "working" at the time but several are standing around doing nothing. The people working the counter are slow and not very informative or knowledgeable. The guys that went in on this venture had no, or little, restaurant biz experience and it shows. I can tell they either did very little training or trial runs with their staff or did it poorly.

Hopfully, they get this part turned around because they have a good product to sell. In the meantime, for those that have not been there I recommend ordering ahead and if you plan on eating there be prepared to wait for a table as there is little seating options.

I'll also add, if the staff is rude and makes you feel like a piece of ****, don't take it personal: they do this to everyone!

I know someone who ordered from them and waited 2 hours to get a burnt pizza delivered, so I recommend dining in....