NCAA Settlement

[isucy86]

I don't understand the value of the NCAA for member schools as a leadership entity. It seems the conferences would be better off creating their own governance structure.

In the case of non-P4 conferences/schools, it would be interesting to see some withdraw from the NCAA. But my guess, even if they receive a pittance from the NCAA Hoops Tournament- it's more than they could get as a separate entity.

 

[cykadelic2]

I have a hard time seeing that come to fruition. "Pay for Play" is only a pejorative in the realm of college athletics. To the rest of the world, that's just how things work. The NCAA has had their teeth kicked in by the court system, trying to explain why they should be held to a different standard than the rest of the world. It's just can't see a Federal law being enacted that not only grants the NCAA the special treatment that they desire, but also provides additional power to an investigative body tasked with enforcing penalties for "violations" that wouldn't break the law in any other business scenario.

The original NIL laws in CA and FL explicitly prohibited pay for play inducements. The P4 want Federal rules or regulations mirroring those states’ rules with an enforcement entity separate from the NCAA and in conjunction with a ban on collectives engaging in NIL and PfP deals. Whether it actually happens is TBD but It isn’t accurate to state that prior NIL rules “broke the law" despite a single TN judge claiming otherwise.

 

[Mr Janny]

The original NIL laws in CA and FL explicitly prohibited pay for play inducements. The P4 want Federal rules or regulations mirroring those states’ rules with an enforcement entity separate from the NCAA and in conjunction with a ban on collectives engaging in NIL and PfP deals. Whether it actually happens is TBD but It isn’t accurate to state that prior NIL rules “broke the law" despite a single TN judge claiming otherwise.

To be clear, my point isn't that prior NIL rules broke any laws. I'm saying that the entire prospect of deeming "pay for play" to be illegal, is pretty ridiculous, because in any other industry it would be perfectly normal for a business to acquire and entice their labor via compensation, benefits, etc.

Pay for Play = regular old compensation

The NCAA has argued that it should be illegal for member schools to attract their labor force the way that the rest of the world does. It's not a good argument, and it's a big part of the reason for their track record in court.

 

[cyputz]

A new business called Collegiate Athletic Solutions, led by RedBird Capital founder Gerry Cardinale, plans to invest $50 million to $200 million apiece in a select group of universities, Cardinale said. CAS is a partnership between RedBird and Weatherford Capital, founded by former Florida State quarterback Drew Weatherford, who is also a member of the school’s board of trustees. They say they will invest in five to 10 schools to start and are in talks with dozens more, including members of every power conference.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/ncaa-settlement-amateurism-private-equity-f62ebc00?st=fvbtihwliy030r6&reflink=article_copyURL_share

 

[CycloneSpinning]

So would this potentially kill football at some of those lower levels? I think many of those small schools are considering it anyway due to cost and return on investment

Is that the goal here? This seems patently unfair that we must be missing something. I know this is the “new” normal but maybe just let those big schools do their own thing and let the NCAA manage those schools that aren’t in it 100% for the money grab. They are underestimating the long term impact of the fans.

Can’t the non-P4 just leave the NCAA? That’s what I’d do. Then without the NCAA regulations, go and recruit whoever you want to play….whether they played professionally previously or not. I bet they could get some sort of TV deal with Amazon.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

To be clear, my point isn't that prior NIL rules broke any laws. I'm saying that the entire prospect of deeming "pay for play" to be illegal, is pretty ridiculous, because in any other industry it would be perfectly normal for a business to acquire and entice their labor via compensation, benefits, etc.

Pay for Play = regular old compensation

The NCAA has argued that it should be illegal for member schools to attract their labor force the way that the rest of the world does. It's not a good argument, and it's a big part of the reason for their track record in court.

But along these lines, isn’t it solely the NCAA’s fault that member organizations were not allowed to pay players? I seriously think I would look at some sort of lawsuit against the NCAA…especially if I were a smaller school or conference, saying that it’s solely their responsibility to pay past players if it’s deemed that was now reasonable/necessary…and then I would break from the NCAA and find a new path forward. I see nothing that the NCAA provides these schools now that is worth their staying.

 

[mwwbbfan]

But along these lines, isn’t it solely the NCAA’s fault that member organizations were not allowed to pay players? I seriously think I would look at some sort of lawsuit against the NCAA…especially if I were a smaller school or conference, saying that it’s solely their responsibility to pay past players if it’s deemed that was now reasonable/necessary…and then I would break from the NCAA and find a new path forward. I see nothing that the NCAA provides these schools now that is worth their staying.

The NCAA is a member organization - therefore the schools that make up the organization are responsible for it's actions. All rules that the NCAA enforced were voted on by membership (or at least representatives of them). Also they would need to start a "new" NCAA with no defined revenue. Seems like an uphill battle.

 

[Nor'easter]

So who's actually getting this settlement money? After all the lawyers are done with it of course.

 

[Nor'easter]

A new business called Collegiate Athletic Solutions, led by RedBird Capital founder Gerry Cardinale, plans to invest $50 million to $200 million apiece in a select group of universities, Cardinale said. CAS is a partnership between RedBird and Weatherford Capital, founded by former Florida State quarterback Drew Weatherford, who is also a member of the school’s board of trustees. They say they will invest in five to 10 schools to start and are in talks with dozens more, including members of every power conference.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/ncaa-settlement-amateurism-private-equity-f62ebc00?st=fvbtihwliy030r6&reflink=article_copyURL_share

F*** it why not, we've already destroyed the whole system let's get private equity involved.

 

[Nor'easter]

F*** it why not, we've already destroyed the whole system let's get private equity involved.

We won't get any of course, a Baylor type of school will though for no reason.

 

[CascadeClone]

To be clear, my point isn't that prior NIL rules broke any laws. I'm saying that the entire prospect of deeming "pay for play" to be illegal, is pretty ridiculous, because in any other industry it would be perfectly normal for a business to acquire and entice their labor via compensation, benefits, etc.

Pay for Play = regular old compensation

The NCAA has argued that it should be illegal for member schools to attract their labor force the way that the rest of the world does. It's not a good argument, and it's a big part of the reason for their track record in court.

Correct, it only would have been afoul of NCAA regs. So they wrote them that way, to keep the NCAA off their schools.

But then once the NCAA was found to be unable to enforce, it was REALLY all over.

 

[Mr Janny]

So who's actually getting this settlement money? After all the lawyers are done with it of course.

The short answer is past athletes. But we should expect that the settlement will include some language attempting to address potential similar claims by athletes, going forward. The NCAA obviously wants this settlement to be the end of their court battles on this particular subject, and will want to be protected from another past athlete suing them for the same thing. Not sure what that will look like, but there will probably be something in the settlement about it.

 

[Jer]

So who's actually getting this settlement money? After all the lawyers are done with it of course.

For the past players, I have mixed feelings. Generally speaking, I don't really like the concept of "reparations" for the wrongs impacting prior generations (i.e. not going back a couple hundred years), or in situations like this where the laws, rules, and restrictions evolved or changed.

With this settlement having a go-back date to 2016 or whatever it is, why that date? Players have played and been limited forever up until the past couple years. You can't in any way determine what each player could have gotten so you can only apply a universal amount. And those that are currently playing won't benefit from rule or legal changes in the future. That's just the concept of progress and evolution.

If my wife were to apologize to me today for the lack of sex the past 20 years and for some reason decided to actually have it going forward, I don't get makeup sex (very unfortunate). You often get performance raises based on the past year of employment, but they aren't retroactive - the difference only goes forward. When tax laws change, people that have paid taxes under old laws don't suddenly get refunds years later. When laws change (i.e. marijuana legalization), generally past offenses aren't expunged (though there have been instances of that being part of the new law's rollout).

 

[cykadelic2]

The NCAA is a member organization - therefore the schools that make up the organization are responsible for it's actions. All rules that the NCAA enforced were voted on by membership (or at least representatives of them). Also they would need to start a "new" NCAA with no defined revenue. Seems like an uphill battle.

Agree, NCAA is completely misunderstood by many including media who should know better.

NCAA leadership (namely Mark Emmert and his legal counsel) obviously and badly miscalculated their opposition to NIL in the first place and now the member schools and NCAA are both paying a big price for doing so. Emmert was an idiot but he was supposedly acting with a majority of membership approval.

And breaking away from the NCAA is not as easy as it sounds. Most forget that the NCAA administers all of the national championships for all sports except for FB which takes plenty of manpower as well as being the financial clearinghouse for those events. Without subpoena power, the enforcement arm of the NCAA has generally been a disaster but it appears that the Feds will possibly approve a new enforcement arm separate from the NCAA and presumably with subpoena power.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

Agree, NCAA is completely misunderstood by many including media who should know better.

NCAA leadership (namely Mark Emmert and his legal counsel) obviously and badly miscalculated their opposition to NIL in the first place and now the member schools and NCAA are both paying a big price for doing so. Emmert was an idiot but he was supposedly acting with a majority of membership approval.

And breaking away from the NCAA is not as easy as it sounds. Most forget that the NCAA administers all of the national championships for all sports except for FB which takes plenty of manpower as well as being the financial clearinghouse for those events. Without subpoena power, the enforcement arm of the NCAA has generally been a disaster but it appears that the Feds will possibly approve a new enforcement arm separate from the NCAA and presumably with subpoena power.

Couldn’t you argue that member schools not really in competition for the championship receive very few benefits though? What about looking to join/elevate the NAIA?

 

[cycloneG]

NCAA, Power 5 agree to let schools pay players

The NCAA and its leagues are moving forward with a multibillion-dollar settlement agreement that will allow schools to directly pay players for the first time in the history of college sports.

www.espn.com

 

[CyGuy5]

Goodbye non revenue sports

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Goodbye non revenue sports

And everyone below the P4 and I'm not sure I'd feel great if I were leadership in the Big 12 and ACC.

Going to be well funded club sports.

 

[Pope]

Goodbye non revenue sports

I know football drives the bus, but I wonder if schools will choose to cut the football scholarship limit back from 85 to something like 70. In the interest of keeping the playing field level, I'd think cutting football scholarships would need to be done conference wide.

Also, I worry the inevitable about increases in ticket prices and donation requirements. If there are significant increases, I'm afraid I will probably tap out.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I know football drives the bus, but I wonder if schools will choose to cut the football scholarship limit back from 85 to something like 70. In the interest of keeping the playing field level, I'd think cutting football scholarships would need to be done conference wide.

Also, I worry the inevitable about increases in ticket prices and donation requirements. If there are significant increases, I'm afraid I will probably tap out.

The opposite is going to happen. At least the Big Ten and SEC are going to 110. They led the charge to ensure that you can have as many scholarships as you can roster spots.

I still don't think people are grasping the gulf that is going to exist between those two leagues and the next two. The P4 is a myth. It's the P2. This settlement also ensures that nobody is going to break away from the NCAA.

When they go to 110 football scholarships, 15 MBB scholarships, 17 WBB scholarships, 18 VB scholarships, 25 baseball scholarships and 30 softball scholarships, it's going to dilute that talent pool for everybody down below real quick.