The best day i remember is beating Ok St.(I think) and the player who's name shall not be mentioned had a great game. Had lunch with coach (Appleby's) afterward because I was with somebody who knew him well. Things felt pretty good.
Men's basketball expectations vs. fan longevity, a conversation
- Thread starter CYDJ
- Start date
Remembered another story about Cyclone MBB from long, long ago. I lived on Sheldon Avenue, just down the street from Westgate and across from Beyer. Played lots of pick-up BB games at Beyer, sometimes the football players would show up (Dexter Green), sometimes the basketball players would show up (Andrew Parker - could go up with a ball in each hand and dunk both of them.).
One Sunday my roommate and I wandered over to State Gym (Beyer wasn't open for some reason) to shoot a little bit. Nance had the team there, playing full-court. I think it was just for fun, not real practicing.
So we stood and watched for awhile.....then a couple of players had to leave, and Nance hollers over at us. "Hey! You two! Get in here!" We looked at each other - WTF? Are you kidding? Is he talking to us?
And in we went. Holy ****, it was like getting sucked into the turbine of a jet engine. I never touched the ball once. My roomie, who was an exceptional shooter, tried a jump shot and it ended up getting swatted clear across the floor.
It was pretty fun, nonetheless. And Nance thanked us for filling in.
Now that's a great story.
First memories were with Orr during the Fred years. Love ISU hoops.
Expectation year in and out is to hit the round of 32 and be top 4in the conference. Any sweet 16 year is a huge success. Any non tourney year is a huge failure. Round of 64 and out is wasted opportunity.
Expectation year in and out is to hit the round of 32 and be top 4in the conference. Any sweet 16 year is a huge success. Any non tourney year is a huge failure. Round of 64 and out is wasted opportunity.
Remembered another story about Cyclone MBB from long, long ago. I lived on Sheldon Avenue, just down the street from Westgate and across from Beyer. Played lots of pick-up BB games at Beyer, sometimes the football players would show up (Dexter Green), sometimes the basketball players would show up (Andrew Parker - could go up with a ball in each hand and dunk both of them.
One Sunday my roommate and I wandered over to State Gym (Beyer wasn't open for some reason) to shoot a little bit. Nance had the team there, playing full-court. I think it was just for fun, not real practicing.
So we stood and watched for awhile.....then a couple of players had to leave, and Nance hollers over at us. "Hey! You two! Get in here!" We looked at each other - WTF? Are you kidding? Is he talking to us?
And in we went. Holy ****, it was like getting sucked into the turbine of a jet engine. I never touched the ball once. My roomie, who was an exceptional shooter, tried a jump shot and it ended up getting swatted clear across the floor.
It was pretty fun, nonetheless. And Nance thanked us for filling in.
Grew up watching the occasional ISU game on TV in the 70s. Not very often, though, as they were rarely on TV. Was a student when Johnny came to town. I have a similar story. A friend had tried to walk on to the basketball team. He didn't make it - he got beat out by some kid named Jeff Hornacek. Anyway, he and some of the basketball players were playing a pickup game at Beyer....Barry Stevens, David Moss, etc.. I wander in just as they had lost a couple of players and my friend motions me into the game. The main thing that I remember is just how vastly much quicker and athletic they were than I had imagined while watching them play. One play that stuck out.. Barry was leading a fast break. I was "defending". He lobs the ball over my head. I turn around thinking that I might be able to make a play on the ball only to see Ronnie Virgil's waist as he dunks the ball. I don't think that I even made it off of the ground by the time the play was over.
Started paying attention to ISU athletics in 99/2000. I was 10 or 11 so needless to say I dove in pretty deep with the successes both football and basketball teams.
I I really fell off basketball the last couple years of McD, Fred fully rejuvenated my enthusiasm.
I fully think the expectations should be to make the tourney every year after the last 9 years. I fully understand there will be a down year thrown in here and there.
But the expectations to be in the tourney with the occasional deep run should be the expectation.
I I really fell off basketball the last couple years of McD, Fred fully rejuvenated my enthusiasm.
I fully think the expectations should be to make the tourney every year after the last 9 years. I fully understand there will be a down year thrown in here and there.
But the expectations to be in the tourney with the occasional deep run should be the expectation.
Been a BB fan since the Orr yrs. Something that I haven't seen mentioned is that fans all love the belief of Hilton Magic. That started in the Orr yrs, we knew we weren't good on the road but we were fun as could be to watch and cheer at home. Many fans would have been happier this yr with the exact same record if we traded the Hilton losses for road losses. ISU fans expect to win at home.
The one coach that I never figured out was McDermot when he was hired it seemed like a good idea the fan base was enthused and it just never worked out.
Prohm certainly seems to care about ISU and his players. The alumni BB weekend that he started (I think he started it) seems to be well liked and a great way to to keep past players connected to ISU which should only help in the long run in building relationships and maybe finding some players.
My expectations are win at home, make the Semi's in KC, and make the tourney ideally to at least the Sweet 16. Runs further than that sure are fun though.
This yrs team had a ton of upside when they played well together, but at the same time they were about as dysfunctional as any team I've seen some games. Wish they would have played as consistent as the ladies this yr. (But even they left the tourney sooner than expected, sometimes shots just don't fall.)
The one coach that I never figured out was McDermot when he was hired it seemed like a good idea the fan base was enthused and it just never worked out.
Prohm certainly seems to care about ISU and his players. The alumni BB weekend that he started (I think he started it) seems to be well liked and a great way to to keep past players connected to ISU which should only help in the long run in building relationships and maybe finding some players.
My expectations are win at home, make the Semi's in KC, and make the tourney ideally to at least the Sweet 16. Runs further than that sure are fun though.
This yrs team had a ton of upside when they played well together, but at the same time they were about as dysfunctional as any team I've seen some games. Wish they would have played as consistent as the ladies this yr. (But even they left the tourney sooner than expected, sometimes shots just don't fall.)
I think this is spot-on. It's tough seeing bad losses at home, but solid road wins are not easy to come by.
For me, my oldest brother first went to ISU in '76, but I didn't really start following the Clones closely until the late 80s. My sister introduced me to Big Vic when I came down to help her move in one fall. I was a gangly 6'1" at the time and it was my first true experience around someone that made me feel really tiny. Super nice dude, btw.
During my stint at ISU, I had classes with Hurl and Fred. I'd constantly see Michalik on campus on his bike (he was super awkward-looking but was always smiling to people). I got trucked trying to guard Loren Meyer at a pick-up game at the Rec Center. And I worked at Hilton for my last two years. Oddly enough, I never attended an actual game during my time there since I was always working at them. I got to see the last 5-10 minutes of nearly every game though!
One of my favorite memories was the first day of one of my accounting classes. I was sitting a few rows from the back. Hurl was a few rows behind me. Some older guy in glasses in the row between us was talking smack on the professor saying how he heard we'd basically be teaching ourselves and how much he sucked.
About five minutes after the class was supposed to start, the professor still hadn't shown up and the guy behind me loudly proclaims, "I told you this guy was a terrible professor, he can't even show up on time for his own class. Well, I guess someone needs to teach this class." He then proceeds to stand up and introduce himself as the professor.
He was a very animated guy, but he knew his stuff. Towards the end of the semester, he invited students to come up front and make fun of him. Hurl, being used to performing in front of crowds, went up there and had a go at him. He had everyone cracking up.
During my stint at ISU, I had classes with Hurl and Fred. I'd constantly see Michalik on campus on his bike (he was super awkward-looking but was always smiling to people). I got trucked trying to guard Loren Meyer at a pick-up game at the Rec Center. And I worked at Hilton for my last two years. Oddly enough, I never attended an actual game during my time there since I was always working at them. I got to see the last 5-10 minutes of nearly every game though!
One of my favorite memories was the first day of one of my accounting classes. I was sitting a few rows from the back. Hurl was a few rows behind me. Some older guy in glasses in the row between us was talking smack on the professor saying how he heard we'd basically be teaching ourselves and how much he sucked.
About five minutes after the class was supposed to start, the professor still hadn't shown up and the guy behind me loudly proclaims, "I told you this guy was a terrible professor, he can't even show up on time for his own class. Well, I guess someone needs to teach this class." He then proceeds to stand up and introduce himself as the professor.
He was a very animated guy, but he knew his stuff. Towards the end of the semester, he invited students to come up front and make fun of him. Hurl, being used to performing in front of crowds, went up there and had a go at him. He had everyone cracking up.
Don't forget Johnny brought home games against Indiana/Bobby Knight and Mich State/Jud Heathcote, among others as well. His ability to get big programs to come to Hilton was a big part of making it exciting.
One of my favorite student section memories is Michigan State, December 1985, Scott Skiles shooting free throws. The students behind the nets are dangling handcuffs. ISU wins, 82-80.
I served Sam Mack fast food before he became somebody that you wouldn't want to meet in a fast food restaurant. He was a really nice guy, actually.
Some fascinating stories in this thread. It's fun to read fan experiences in various age groups.
I first got into ISU basketball in Nance's final year, 79-80, almost exclusively thru radio. Someone mentioned how rare it was to see Iowa State bball games on TV in those days — even national coverage was limited to some blue bloods and recent "hot" programs, 1 or 2 games on Saturday in January-March. That team's standouts were Uthoff, Estes and Harmison, if I recall.
I was in high school when Orr arrived, and there was a buzz building in his first few seasons, but still didn't achieve a winning record. I was a freshman at Iowa State when the team got an NIT bid. By then, getting student tickets at Hilton was becoming competitive. Some CF fans from the '70s mentioned how students could walk in the night of a game and get a good seat. My older sister who attended 76-81 had told me similar stories.
Anyway, jumping ahead to how expectations may vary across generations, I still have a realistic view over time, but would like to see more challenges for conference regular season titles and more frequent lengthy tournament runs.
From the early Hilton Magic period until Morgan era, the trend has been an upward curve, plateau, slight drop-off for a couple of years, repeat sequence. McD years were flatline. This decade has been the most consistent run of modest success since I've been a fan. I try not to lose sight of that. I've seen worse. At the same time, I don't want 2011-19 years be the apex of what's acheivable.
I first got into ISU basketball in Nance's final year, 79-80, almost exclusively thru radio. Someone mentioned how rare it was to see Iowa State bball games on TV in those days — even national coverage was limited to some blue bloods and recent "hot" programs, 1 or 2 games on Saturday in January-March. That team's standouts were Uthoff, Estes and Harmison, if I recall.
I was in high school when Orr arrived, and there was a buzz building in his first few seasons, but still didn't achieve a winning record. I was a freshman at Iowa State when the team got an NIT bid. By then, getting student tickets at Hilton was becoming competitive. Some CF fans from the '70s mentioned how students could walk in the night of a game and get a good seat. My older sister who attended 76-81 had told me similar stories.
Anyway, jumping ahead to how expectations may vary across generations, I still have a realistic view over time, but would like to see more challenges for conference regular season titles and more frequent lengthy tournament runs.
From the early Hilton Magic period until Morgan era, the trend has been an upward curve, plateau, slight drop-off for a couple of years, repeat sequence. McD years were flatline. This decade has been the most consistent run of modest success since I've been a fan. I try not to lose sight of that. I've seen worse. At the same time, I don't want 2011-19 years be the apex of what's acheivable.
First memories are watching ISU play basketball on WOI 5. Up until the Big 8-12 network went away one of the best parts of the week was watching that pregame show and the games to follow. Loved watching Orrs teams play the style of play. Got made fun of at school for being an ISU fan. At that time Iowa was the program in both football and basketball. One of the first games I remember is the Rhoades game vs Iowa. Also loved listening to Pete call the games on the radio (football too).
I think fan expectations based on what era you started following the team are just like anything else - everyone likes to get nostalgic and remember the "good ol days."
But let's think about what it was like to be a diehard fan in the early 80s. No internet (messages boards, youtube), minimal tv (non HD on a crappy 20in set), and if you didn't see the game live or hear the game on the radio, there were two articles the next day - 1 in the register and 1 in the ames trib. That. was. it. I bet I hadn't even heard a player talk back then.
We gave Orr a 50% raise and paid him ~50k his first year. You could be "gold" in the cyclone club for $1,000 and park as close as you wanted. Players went home for Christmas, heck the entire summer. Coaches played golf and said hilarious stuff all the time because it wouldn't be recorded or put online in 3 seconds.
I love the stories about state gym and playing with the team - that stuff happened all the time because there's no practice facility and players were just having fun and blowing off steam in the gym just like every other student.
We all remember hilton magic and "losing" on the road but we used to get destroyed on the road - losing by 20/30 many times. Can you imagine CF if we lost to KU by 40? We all loved Orr but the guy had back to back losing seasons while a player robbed burger king and our best player flunked out of school. The Hoiberg years would've never happened because Orr would've been fired in today's world.
Now people want a coach fired for going 500 in the b12 and getting a 6 seed - but maybe they spend 100s of hrs following their team, being invested, spending a huge % of their income traveling and following the team. We have to "compete" and worry about conf realignment and all that baloney.
There's just so much $$ involved and so much information/access today that sure, expectations change and people demand more. That's just true with just about everything, college sports should be no different.
But let's think about what it was like to be a diehard fan in the early 80s. No internet (messages boards, youtube), minimal tv (non HD on a crappy 20in set), and if you didn't see the game live or hear the game on the radio, there were two articles the next day - 1 in the register and 1 in the ames trib. That. was. it. I bet I hadn't even heard a player talk back then.
We gave Orr a 50% raise and paid him ~50k his first year. You could be "gold" in the cyclone club for $1,000 and park as close as you wanted. Players went home for Christmas, heck the entire summer. Coaches played golf and said hilarious stuff all the time because it wouldn't be recorded or put online in 3 seconds.
I love the stories about state gym and playing with the team - that stuff happened all the time because there's no practice facility and players were just having fun and blowing off steam in the gym just like every other student.
We all remember hilton magic and "losing" on the road but we used to get destroyed on the road - losing by 20/30 many times. Can you imagine CF if we lost to KU by 40? We all loved Orr but the guy had back to back losing seasons while a player robbed burger king and our best player flunked out of school. The Hoiberg years would've never happened because Orr would've been fired in today's world.
Now people want a coach fired for going 500 in the b12 and getting a 6 seed - but maybe they spend 100s of hrs following their team, being invested, spending a huge % of their income traveling and following the team. We have to "compete" and worry about conf realignment and all that baloney.
There's just so much $$ involved and so much information/access today that sure, expectations change and people demand more. That's just true with just about everything, college sports should be no different.
I started following ISU in the mid-1980's, and started attending games in the later 1980's as a student. Hilton Magic "died" for a spell during the Orr era. There were articles about it in the Daily. In an attempt to revive it, yellow "Hilton Magic" flyers were put on all the seats in Hilton before a big game (KU maybe). I think it worked that night, as ISU won.
I think the biggest "problem" this year was with too many of ISU's fans buying into the "most talented team in the Big 12" mantra, which drove expectations to unrealistic levels. As others have pointed out and thoughtfully discussed, it just simply wasn't true. When FF tweeted out that ISU's best NBA prospect was TH and that he was still a couple of years away, many fans chastised FF, a knowledgeable and experienced college basketball commentator.
A couple of memories I have...
ISU was playing Indiana during Christmas break somewhere around 1990, and our break tickets were right behind Indiana's bench. Indiana's big red-head center gave up an offensive rebound/putback to ISU, and Knight pulled the kid out and started reaming him. Someone from the crowd yelled out, "Hey, Bobby, rebound it yourself!". Knight turned around and said to the crowd, "I'm too damn old!".
The rec center had just opened up, and a couple of friends and I went over to shoot some hoops. A few MBB players were there, along with a few MBB wanna-bees. A couple of guys left, so we were asked to join in. I was about 6'-2" 200 lbs. There was a real hot head MBB-wanna be playing, probably around 6'-8", 240-ish, built like a rock. I had to guard him. I didn't let him push me around, and he was starting to get mad. Finally, he posted me up, and leveled me with an elbow/forearm to the head, and then got in my face for a few seconds as I was laying flat on my back. Paul Doerrfeld (ISU player who I think had just graduated), who has on my team (he was pretty big too), picked me up off the floor and got me back on my feet, and said, "Good job...that guy is an *******".
I think the biggest "problem" this year was with too many of ISU's fans buying into the "most talented team in the Big 12" mantra, which drove expectations to unrealistic levels. As others have pointed out and thoughtfully discussed, it just simply wasn't true. When FF tweeted out that ISU's best NBA prospect was TH and that he was still a couple of years away, many fans chastised FF, a knowledgeable and experienced college basketball commentator.
A couple of memories I have...
ISU was playing Indiana during Christmas break somewhere around 1990, and our break tickets were right behind Indiana's bench. Indiana's big red-head center gave up an offensive rebound/putback to ISU, and Knight pulled the kid out and started reaming him. Someone from the crowd yelled out, "Hey, Bobby, rebound it yourself!". Knight turned around and said to the crowd, "I'm too damn old!".
The rec center had just opened up, and a couple of friends and I went over to shoot some hoops. A few MBB players were there, along with a few MBB wanna-bees. A couple of guys left, so we were asked to join in. I was about 6'-2" 200 lbs. There was a real hot head MBB-wanna be playing, probably around 6'-8", 240-ish, built like a rock. I had to guard him. I didn't let him push me around, and he was starting to get mad. Finally, he posted me up, and leveled me with an elbow/forearm to the head, and then got in my face for a few seconds as I was laying flat on my back. Paul Doerrfeld (ISU player who I think had just graduated), who has on my team (he was pretty big too), picked me up off the floor and got me back on my feet, and said, "Good job...that guy is an *******".
The age of automatic satisfaction is upon us.
I've been attending/following games since the Wayne Morgan era, my first year as a student was the year we beat KU in Lawrence, which all but ensured an invite to the NCAA tournament. So, my expectations are fairly low, but I'm eager to see the moment a future team is able to make it back to the Elite Eight or beyond.
I remember Ken Trickey days..
People can expect to win the conference or go to the sweet 16, nothing wrong with that, but if you do that you are gonna be disappointed, a lot. And some will ***** and ***** and ***** over every loss as a result. I guess why watch if the product pisses you off. Plenty of other things in the world to get pissed about. And there is a difference between constructive criticism and wanting to fire the coach or bench guys if the team loses the game.
Any time the team gets to 20 wins, I consider it a great year.
Ken Trickey did not total 20 wins over 2 seasons, just a little perspective.
People can expect to win the conference or go to the sweet 16, nothing wrong with that, but if you do that you are gonna be disappointed, a lot. And some will ***** and ***** and ***** over every loss as a result. I guess why watch if the product pisses you off. Plenty of other things in the world to get pissed about. And there is a difference between constructive criticism and wanting to fire the coach or bench guys if the team loses the game.
Any time the team gets to 20 wins, I consider it a great year.
Ken Trickey did not total 20 wins over 2 seasons, just a little perspective.
