I gotta disagree with you. As dominant as Marcus was in 99-2000, Jeff Grayer was the best player that I ever saw in an Iowa State uniform. He could do it all, his senior year he averaged 25 ppg, 9.4 rpg, almost 3 apg, and 2 spg. He would have had a great pro career, but the knee that he hurt as a junior on a cheap shot by a Creighton player, blew out his first year. He never had the same explosivness after that, and still played for 7-8 years.
Marcus Fizer update
- Thread starter gocubs2118
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I gotta disagree with you. As dominant as Marcus was in 99-2000, Jeff Grayer was the best player that I ever saw in an Iowa State uniform. He could do it all, his senior year he averaged 25 ppg, 9.4 rpg, almost 3 apg, and 2 spg. He would have had a great pro career, but the knee that he hurt as a junior on a cheap shot by a Creighton player, blew out his first year. He never had the same explosivness after that, and still played for 7-8 years.
I don't say this to try and slam anyone in particular. But to criticize Marcus for going pro is just dumb. Hell, even Eustachy said he wouldn't let him back on the team (tongue in cheek of course).
He was a top five pick. He had to go. I really admire the guys like Leinert at USC, and Tim Duncan at Wake (those are the only two I can think of) who were at the top of the college game and walked away from the $$$ for another year. But who can blame the kids who don't come back?
Imagine you're 20-22 years old and in college. Say your like me, in computer programming, and Bill Gates walks in the lab at Durham and says "I'll give you a guaranteed XX million dollars for the next X years, but you have to leave school right now". Man, I wouldn't even log off the computer, drop the classes or clean out my dorm room.
I would've loved to have Marcus back. But I'll never blame him for leaving - especially since he had the legit shot.
DaddyMac, it's not like Fizer wasn't going to get paid. He was going to be a top pick whether he went in 2000 or 2001. Waiting a year wasn't going to hurt his draft stock. And hindsight being what it is, he could have used another year of college ball, rather than being Elton Brand's towel boy.
Who can blame them for taking the money? I blame them. Fizer was made either way. And look how well turning pro has worked for Curtis Stinson. He's not the level of a Duncan, Leinert or even Fizer, but he's found obscurity.
Iowa State basketball was on the verge of greatness with Fizer and Tinsley. How many times are we going to be able to say that? I hope that changes, but we're still fixing the mess Larry Eustachy left us.
Speaking of Eustachy, he must have been loaded when he said he wouldn't let Fizer back on the team. I realize he was joking, but don't forget that Larry capitalized on those two great years by leading ISU to a tenth and ninth place finish the two years after. And then the photo mess. But at least he knew that the hot girls were in Lawrence.
Who can blame them for taking the money? I blame them. Fizer was made either way. And look how well turning pro has worked for Curtis Stinson. He's not the level of a Duncan, Leinert or even Fizer, but he's found obscurity.
Iowa State basketball was on the verge of greatness with Fizer and Tinsley. How many times are we going to be able to say that? I hope that changes, but we're still fixing the mess Larry Eustachy left us.
Speaking of Eustachy, he must have been loaded when he said he wouldn't let Fizer back on the team. I realize he was joking, but don't forget that Larry capitalized on those two great years by leading ISU to a tenth and ninth place finish the two years after. And then the photo mess. But at least he knew that the hot girls were in Lawrence.
I have no room to disagree, I was alive when Grayer was playing but I was only around 5 years old so I didn't understand what was going on lol. One thing that I do know, however, is that the good guys got farther in the tournament with Fizer than any Grayer team ever did.
Sure he had it made either year. Until he gets rolled up on in a non-con game against St Mary's school of the poor and blows every ligament in his knee.
Those are considerations that have to be made by these guys. And I'm sure were.
Like I said, I really admire the guys who'll roll those dice and come back. But I'll never blame a guy for leaving who is the real deal. Just like I won't blame a kid like Tinsley for dropping out of school after his eligibility was up to focus on the draft. You can always come back to school (few do), but you only get so many shots at the NBA.
Now every year you have these schmucks who come early who have no business in doing so. What's his face from Nebraska last year for instance. Or even Stinson really.
I think there's something like 60 or 64 draft spots in the NBA. And last year I believe there were more than that number of early entries. That's not counting foreign players and seniors. And only first rounders, the the first so many first rounders, get guaranteed money. So alot of kids are living a lot of illusions, and probably getting alot of bad advice.
Those are considerations that have to be made by these guys. And I'm sure were.
Like I said, I really admire the guys who'll roll those dice and come back. But I'll never blame a guy for leaving who is the real deal. Just like I won't blame a kid like Tinsley for dropping out of school after his eligibility was up to focus on the draft. You can always come back to school (few do), but you only get so many shots at the NBA.
Now every year you have these schmucks who come early who have no business in doing so. What's his face from Nebraska last year for instance. Or even Stinson really.
I think there's something like 60 or 64 draft spots in the NBA. And last year I believe there were more than that number of early entries. That's not counting foreign players and seniors. And only first rounders, the the first so many first rounders, get guaranteed money. So alot of kids are living a lot of illusions, and probably getting alot of bad advice.
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I liked Fizer as much as the next Cyclone but Grayer may get the slight edge from me in the Fizer vs Grayer-who was greater Cyclone shoot out.
Grayer, from Flint, Michigan, played on 3 NCAA tournament teams for the Cyclones. He finished his career as the Cyclones all-time leading scorer (2502 points), led the Big 8 Conference in scoring (23.3ppg) his senior year and was rebounding co-leader. He was a 3 time All-Big 8 selection and a 1988 All-American. Grayer was a member of the bronze medal- 1988 USA Olympic team, and was a 1st-round draft choice of the Milwaukee Bucks in 1988. He also played for Golden State Warriors and Philadelphia 76ers during his NBA career. Grayer recently had his ISU jersey (#44) retired on Feb.14, 2004.
Grayer, from Flint, Michigan, played on 3 NCAA tournament teams for the Cyclones. He finished his career as the Cyclones all-time leading scorer (2502 points), led the Big 8 Conference in scoring (23.3ppg) his senior year and was rebounding co-leader. He was a 3 time All-Big 8 selection and a 1988 All-American. Grayer was a member of the bronze medal- 1988 USA Olympic team, and was a 1st-round draft choice of the Milwaukee Bucks in 1988. He also played for Golden State Warriors and Philadelphia 76ers during his NBA career. Grayer recently had his ISU jersey (#44) retired on Feb.14, 2004.
You are so right on that MSU game-I my buddies and I screaming at the TV down in Welch that night. Had we not gotten jobbed on that call we would have won the championship. We were easily a final four team had Fizer come back for his senior year-ah memories...
How could you risk the millions of dollars Fizer was going to get for turning pro by playing another year of college basketball. Strange things could happen....injuries, freak accident, etc...that wouldn't allow him to play pro ball pissing away millions of dollars. That just doesn't make financial sense.
I went to college to get a degree so I could do a job that I like and make decent money doing it. Well if someone offered me a job doing something that I LOVE and pays me huge bank without finishing college after my junior year at Iowa State, I would be gone in a heartbeat.
Sure I would have loved to see Tinsley and Fizer on the same team for another year but don't fault the guy for cashing in.
I went to college to get a degree so I could do a job that I like and make decent money doing it. Well if someone offered me a job doing something that I LOVE and pays me huge bank without finishing college after my junior year at Iowa State, I would be gone in a heartbeat.
Sure I would have loved to see Tinsley and Fizer on the same team for another year but don't fault the guy for cashing in.
DaddyMac, I know I'm not going to change you mind, but seriously, how big of a risk is it coming back? Who was the last player whose career was ruined by playing another year of college ball? The blow-out-a-knee argument is always used, but there are never any examples.
I'm sure family members and agents whisper that in these guys' ears all the time, but that argument doesn't hold up for me. I cannot remember anyone who had the chance to go pro, came back for another year of college, blew out a knee, and ended up flipping burgers at B-Bops.
I'm sure family members and agents whisper that in these guys' ears all the time, but that argument doesn't hold up for me. I cannot remember anyone who had the chance to go pro, came back for another year of college, blew out a knee, and ended up flipping burgers at B-Bops.
The examples are short, to be sure. But then so is the list of players who actually did come back. I don't really pay attention to this kind of stuff, so my memory isn't that good - but can you name me many others, aside from Leinart and Duncan who were a lock top 5 pick and did come back?
And if you want another example of how often does it happen, you probably don't have to look beyond the number one pick that year. What's his face from Cinncinati. Now I realize I'm using a number one pick who was injured a few weeks before as an example, and it doesn't really hold up. But if I recall, it was just a broken foot, no biggie. But a knee or something that isn't so minor.?.?.? That had to go through Marcus' mind.
You're right, the likelihood is probably crazy low. But then again, you and I aren't laying the millions on the line. You and I are asking him (and I was asking too) to lay the millions on the line so we can enjoy more college basketball games. I get ya. I'd love, love, love Marcus to have been back. But I'm not going to begrudge him for leaving.
And personally, I don't think Marcus would've been the difference between a national championship and what happened. Sully was solid that year, but he was no mike Nurse. Evans and/or Power were solid, but they were no Stevie Johnson. That first team was special. The second team was damn good, but not the same and it went beyond just losing Marcus. Marcus would've been the difference in the BigXII tourney. I'm not sure I think much more would've happened in the NCAAs - aside from thumping Hampton.
And if you want another example of how often does it happen, you probably don't have to look beyond the number one pick that year. What's his face from Cinncinati. Now I realize I'm using a number one pick who was injured a few weeks before as an example, and it doesn't really hold up. But if I recall, it was just a broken foot, no biggie. But a knee or something that isn't so minor.?.?.? That had to go through Marcus' mind.
You're right, the likelihood is probably crazy low. But then again, you and I aren't laying the millions on the line. You and I are asking him (and I was asking too) to lay the millions on the line so we can enjoy more college basketball games. I get ya. I'd love, love, love Marcus to have been back. But I'm not going to begrudge him for leaving.
And personally, I don't think Marcus would've been the difference between a national championship and what happened. Sully was solid that year, but he was no mike Nurse. Evans and/or Power were solid, but they were no Stevie Johnson. That first team was special. The second team was damn good, but not the same and it went beyond just losing Marcus. Marcus would've been the difference in the BigXII tourney. I'm not sure I think much more would've happened in the NCAAs - aside from thumping Hampton.
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Nurse and Johnson were hard to replace, but remember the 2001 squad had seniors Jamaal Tinsley, Martin Rancik, Paul Shirley, and Kantrail Horton. Add Marcus Fizer to that list and you've got a team without any weaknesses that I can see. Without Fizer this team has no true dominant post presence (Shirley and Rancik were not going to out-physical opponents). Then you add Sullivan, Evans, Power, and I believe Tyray Pearson to the list as bench/role players.
I know I may have touched a nerve with my original comments...all I was trying to say is that I don't put Fizer in the category of Hoiberg, Hornacek, or Grayer. I loved watching Marcus play, and I'll always be proud he played for ISU. I don't blame him for taking the money. As a fan, however, I will always wonder how great we could have been had he stayed.
Again, good luck to Marcus. I hope he can continue to play for pay as long as he wants to. I even hope he makes it back to the NBA.
The Bulls wanted Miles, but the Clippers took him the pick before. The Bulls, being as well run as they were at the time, panicked and picked Marcus. The problem was that the previous year, the pick Brand first. Then the year after they trade for Chandler, and Curry. There was no rhyme or reason for what they were doing, and they changed plans every year. Krause stepping down saved that franchise.
