Joshua Jefferson has committed to Iowa State

[NorthCyd]

He was not a below average offensive player unless you're holding him to a standard outside of his role as a 5 man. He was one of our most efficient offensive players.

Its not 1995. If you literally can't shoot the ball, even at the 5, then you are an offensive liability unless you are a physical freak like Edey. Rob was efficient because he knew how to pick his spots and didn't try to do too much. That doesn't make him a good offensive player. If we want to really improve on offense we need to force teams to guard more space in our half court offense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not killing Rob. I loved that guy. He was a big reason for our success, worked his ass off, and improved dramatically. But if we really want to improve our offense to the point we can really challenge to be a top tier team it's not going to be with guys like Rob who have huge holes in their offensive ability.

 

[NorthCyd]

I never said the defense wasn't going to be good, I mentioned what the unknown was. We have people saying that the defense is automatically going to be better than the defense that was in the #1/#2 range all season. It was able to stay top of the nation because they didn't have holes offenses could exploit. If the bigs aren't able to consistently stay in front of guards on switches it is a hole that offenses can exploit and the defense won't be better. A top 20 defense is still great but won't necessarily get the team to elite 8/final 4 level.

Pointing out an unknown is not handwringing, it is realism.

I'm saying the defense will be elite and good enough to win a championship. There is no unknown there IMO. It has been elite since this staff has gotten here and put an elite defense on the floor with lesser talent and it is my belief it will continue to be as long is this staff is here. The offense is the only unknown. That's my opinion. We can agree to disagree if you see it differently.

 

[t-noah]

He's probably going to create an algorithm based upon this thread's playing time estimations.

With TJ, I would expect no less.

 

[t-noah]

I think the chance the front court is not as good defensively is much greater than you’re implying. In part, because they were elite last year

We missed Ward’s abilities when he was out last year. Jackson’s block percentage and ability to defend in space isn’t as good as Ward’s

All three bigs were experienced, tough super seniors. Rob in particular was a bully, yet with deceptively good ability in space.

Maybe they’re better on offense, although all three of last year’s bigs would look good in highlight tapes in the WCC and American

We still have time to trade them in.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

And last year everyone was worried about a lack of returning players. There is always going to be reasons to wring your hands why it's not going to be as good as last year. I'll continue to believe in this staffs ability to put a great defense on the floor regardless of situation until they give me reason not to.

I completely agree with the bolded. I think everyone is confident that TJ is going to always put a great defense on the floor because we have seen the proof firsthand. Pointing out what we lost is more of a testament to those three versus an indictment on who's replacing them.

With what we're bringing back in the backcourt, it's only natural to look at the unknown for possible issues. Since the success of our post defense was a linchpin to our overall effectiveness, tempering expectations a little doesn't seem too unreasonable given that we're losing our top three known contributors.

 

[t-noah]

He was 117/197 (59.2%) from the field. Many of those were from solid post moves, good footwork, and baby hooks over post defenders. Rob was an asset on the offensive end and often times was physically impressive in doing so. Much fewer instances of falling over in the lane than previous seasons.

Amazing culture guy and progress over his 3 years. And he was pretty clutch at the foul line there at the end too!

 

[bosco]

Its not 1995. If you literally can't shoot the ball, even at the 5, then you are an offensive liability unless you are a physical freak like Edey. Rob was efficient because he knew how to pick his spots and didn't try to do too much. That doesn't make him a good offensive player. If we want to really improve on offense we need to force teams to guard more space in our half court offense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not killing Rob. I loved that guy. He was a big reason for our success, worked his ass off, and improved dramatically. But if we really want to improve our offense to the point we can really challenge to be a top tier team it's not going to be with guys like Rob who have huge holes in their offensive ability.

BRE purposely did not become a great offensive threat so that the team around him could grow and learn to be efficient on their own. He is the Mr. Miyagi of the program.

 

[t-noah]

I never said the defense wasn't going to be good, I mentioned what the unknown was. We have people saying that the defense is automatically going to be better than the defense that was in the #1/#2 range all season. It was able to stay top of the nation because they didn't have holes offenses could exploit. If the bigs aren't able to consistently stay in front of guards on switches it is a hole that offenses can exploit and the defense won't be better. A top 20 defense is still great but won't necessarily get the team to elite 8/final 4 level.

Pointing out an unknown is not handwringing, it is realism.

Enough of this rational speak.

 

[t-noah]

BRE purposely did not become a great offensive threat so that the team around him could grow and learn to be efficient on their own. He is the Mr. Miyagi of the program.

We have finally evolved into mystical level of thought.

 

[CascadeClone]

Last year ISU had a preseason schedule that was uniformly ridiculed because of a lack of challenges in it. This year ISU will be challenged a lot more in the non-con so there won't be nearly as much opportunity to "get up to speed" without it hurting the team in the W/L column.

Getting that team chemistry to develop does take time. Look at his last season - it took til probably... late December maybe?

The better news is that the core of the team is back this year - and even better, its the 4 guys who have the ball in their hands the most. Last year, it was Tamin, Rob, and Tre basically - one guard returning, had to work in 3 totally new guys. So I think the "getting up to speed" will start at a higher speed, and take less time to get up to speed.

 

[CascadeClone]

Amazing culture guy and progress over his 3 years. And he was pretty clutch at the foul line there at the end too!

IDK what BRE plans to do in life, but if I could buy stock in him to be successful, I would.

 

[Psiclone]

I think the chance the front court is not as good defensively is much greater than you’re implying. In part, because they were elite last year

We missed Ward’s abilities when he was out last year. Jackson’s block percentage and ability to defend in space isn’t as good as Ward’s

All three bigs were experienced, tough super seniors. Rob in particular was a bully, yet with deceptively good ability in space.

Maybe they’re better on offense, although all three of last year’s bigs would look good in highlight tapes in the WCC and American

Other than Ward's shot blocking, there's no way at this point to predict if the defense will be better/worse than last year. Jefferson/Jackson appear to be more athletic than Jones/King. If they apply themselves to playing defense the way Ota wants, there's no reason they can't actually be better than Jones/King since they're more athletic. Having the size/strength to maintain defensive position is at least as, if not more, important than shot blocking. In an another post, I compared the blocks/game for both. last year's bigs and the transfers and it was not a significant difference. Jefferson is already recognized as being a superior defender.

 

[WhoISthis]

Other than Ward's shot blocking, there's no way at this point to predict if the defense will be better/worse than last year.

Reread. I’m claiming that the risk the front court defense isn’t as good as last year is much higher than many are predicting. The certainty is by those on the other side, hence the temperance

Again, there are reasons for optimism, but when a trio was part of an elite defense, the risk the replacements aren’t as effective as a group is material.

Jones has been a big part of all three of our top defenses. Not only in terms of the fact he was a very good defender, but he set the tone. If posts wanted to play, they had to beat out Jones. Ward, Enaruna, and Omaha learned this via not playing despite their athletic gifts. There’s a chance newcomers also need that transition period, and this time we don’t have Rob to fall back on

 

[Pharmacy99]

I'm saying the defense will be elite and good enough to win a championship. There is no unknown there IMO. It has been elite since this staff has gotten here and put an elite defense on the floor with lesser talent and it is my belief it will continue to be as long is this staff is here. The offense is the only unknown. That's my opinion. We can agree to disagree if you see it differently.

You are giving Jones back handed compliments. Jone could easily averaged 12-13 points per game if he really wanted but he didn’t do it for the sake of team success. If he shot 12 times a game, he would have averaged 12-13 points/game but his FG% would have been much lower like 45-49%. I just don’t understand constant criticism of Jones while a player with very limited offensive skills (44% career FG) is loved by our fan base.

 

[NorthCyd]

You are giving Jones back handed compliments. Jone could easily averaged 12-13 points per game if he really wanted but he didn’t do it for the sake of team success. If he shot 12 times a game, he would have averaged 12-13 points/game but his FG% would have been much lower like 45-49%. I just don’t understand constant criticism of Jones while a player with very limited offensive skills (44% career FG) is loved by our fan base.

I gave Jones lots of direct compliments.

 

[SolarGarlic]

I thought someone posted one of the big boys said we will have the best defense in the country with the addition of Jefferson?

Does that make it so?

Replacing your entire defensive backline presents an unknown element.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Its not 1995. If you literally can't shoot the ball, even at the 5, then you are an offensive liability unless you are a physical freak like Edey. Rob was efficient because he knew how to pick his spots and didn't try to do too much. That doesn't make him a good offensive player. If we want to really improve on offense we need to force teams to guard more space in our half court offense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not killing Rob. I loved that guy. He was a big reason for our success, worked his ass off, and improved dramatically. But if we really want to improve our offense to the point we can really challenge to be a top tier team it's not going to be with guys like Rob who have huge holes in their offensive ability.

He was one of our most efficient offensive players. Was he a pro prospect? No. But it wasn't as if he shot twice a game. He averaged 7.7 points on 60% shooting. That's perfectly reasonable for a college post player and definitely not a liability.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Other than Ward's shot blocking, there's no way at this point to predict if the defense will be better/worse than last year. Jefferson/Jackson appear to be more athletic than Jones/King. If they apply themselves to playing defense the way Ota wants, there's no reason they can't actually be better than Jones/King since they're more athletic. Having the size/strength to maintain defensive position is at least as, if not more, important than shot blocking. In an another post, I compared the blocks/game for both. last year's bigs and the transfers and it was not a significant difference. Jefferson is already recognized as being a superior defender.

We know what we got with those three. The best defense in the country. We don't have to predict that.

We do have to predict with the 3 new guys. How important was it that all 3 of the guys last year were in the program for at least 2 years? Do the transfers pick up the defense in one offseason? Strength is important for post defense, but instincts, understanding of angles, and anticipation are also big factors. It sounds like Jefferson might bring those skills. Hopefully Jackson brings the same level of intensity as Jones did on defense. He has a great build, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't have the intangibles. TJ's system has been a great equalizer for us, and I have no doubt that we will have an elite defense. But there might be growing pains. I don't know why that's so controversial in this thread.

 

[Westside clone]

We know what we got with those three. The best defense in the country. We don't have to predict that.

We do have to predict with the 3 new guys. How important was it that all 3 of the guys last year were in the program for at least 2 years? Do the transfers pick up the defense in one offseason? Strength is important for post defense, but instincts, understanding of angles, and anticipation are also big factors. It sounds like Jefferson might bring those skills. Hopefully Jackson brings the same level of intensity as Jones did on defense. He has a great build, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't have the intangibles. TJ's system has been a great equalizer for us, and I have no doubt that we will have an elite defense. But there might be growing pains. I don't know why that's so controversial in this thread.

It will take some time to learn to work together but good defensive fundamentals work wherever you go. Chatfield looks very agile for 6'10" and someone 7'1" adjusts quite a few shots. Using all the pieces together may take time but I think the staff has put together a team with quite a few adjustable pieces and they give me a reason to look forward to next winter, God willing!

 

[MTCyclone43]

Doing that in Spokane was impressive.