John Deere as corporate punching bag

brett108

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2010
5,260
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Tulsa, OK
~$1M net worth puts you in the top 10%. ($970k actually, according to Kiplingers - that might be 2022 data)

I am sure that seems like a lot to the youngsters here, but also 100% certain there are quite a few older CF'ers here that would meet that criteria, whether it's 401k, farmground, or whatever.
My wife and I are there after about 20 years of both working engineering services for large chemical companies. So our 401K is definitely a problem I guess....
 

1SEIACLONE

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2024
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Ames Iowa
Everyone should be invested in the stock market, but this idea that companies like Deere are benefitting the vast majority of people in the market by pushing the stock price higher, is totally false and a red herring to talk about how many people are in the market when the vast majority of the stock is owned and controlled by the top 10% of wage earners.
 

brett108

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2010
5,260
2,142
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Tulsa, OK
Everyone should be invested in the stock market, but this idea that companies like Deere are benefitting the vast majority of people in the market by pushing the stock price higher, is totally false and a red herring to talk about how many people are in the market when the vast majority of the stock is owned and controlled by the top 10% of wage earners.
They are pushing the stock higher largely because a huge chunk of their compensation is in stock. This will incentivize better dividends and higher stock price maneuvers. I cant fault the logic. Tying your CEO compensation to the barometer of overall company health seems proper, but gaming the system has never not been a thing.
 

Turn2

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2011
21,978
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Clusterfunkeny
They are pushing the stock higher largely because a huge chunk of their compensation is in stock. This will incentivize better dividends and higher stock price maneuvers. I cant fault the logic. Tying your CEO compensation to the barometer of overall company health seems proper, but gaming the system has never not been a thing.
 
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CycloneDaddy

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Sep 24, 2006
8,326
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Johnston
Just checked....nope, I'm not in the top 10%.

Damn.
It isnt all cavier and champagne in the Top 10%.
~$1M net worth puts you in the top 10%. ($970k actually, according to Kiplingers - that might be 2022 data)

I am sure that seems like a lot to the youngsters here, but also 100% certain there are quite a few older CF'ers here that would meet that criteria, whether it's 401k, farmground, or whatever.
Start as early as you can and it can be done.

What helped us is that we had 22 years of stable employment (wife was laid off this year) and no major health crisis. Even if my wife (upper 40s) never puts another dime towards retirement we will be more then ok come retirement time.

Also we didnt start out with high salarys. I started at $24k and my wife was $26k.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,162
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~$1M net worth puts you in the top 10%. ($970k actually, according to Kiplingers - that might be 2022 data)

I am sure that seems like a lot to the youngsters here, but also 100% certain there are quite a few older CF'ers here that would meet that criteria, whether it's 401k, farmground, or whatever.

When I retire at like 80 maybe, just maybe that'll be me.
 

1SEIACLONE

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2024
2,511
2,351
113
63
Ames Iowa
They are pushing the stock higher largely because a huge chunk of their compensation is in stock. This will incentivize better dividends and higher stock price maneuvers. I cant fault the logic. Tying your CEO compensation to the barometer of overall company health seems proper, but gaming the system has never not been a thing.
When you tie the bonuses that the CEO receives to the price of the stock is all about gaming the system for the benefit of the officers and the large stock holders. The CEO could care less about the workers and the overall health of the company, its all about getting the large payday and doing it year after year and then getting that golden parachute if things turn south. They are paid in stock because its taxed at a lower rate than salary and should be made illegal along with a company purchasing their own stock back to raise the price.
 

CascadeClone

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2009
10,825
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When you tie the bonuses that the CEO receives to the price of the stock is all about gaming the system for the benefit of the officers and the large stock holders. The CEO could care less about the workers and the overall health of the company, its all about getting the large payday and doing it year after year and then getting that golden parachute if things turn south. They are paid in stock because its taxed at a lower rate than salary and should be made illegal along with a company purchasing their own stock back to raise the price.
I have some sympathy for "sharing the pie" more and trying to reduce inequality. Certainly there are parts of the tax code that could be made better and more efficient at the same time. But this is about the 5th thing you've suggested be made illegal.

a) push too far and companies will just go private - there is a little of this already
b) making stuff illegal is literally limiting property rights and broadly, freedom. Stop telling people what they can and can't do with their stuff.
 
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Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
26,495
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I have some sympathy for "sharing the pie" more and trying to reduce inequality. Certainly there are parts of the tax code that could be made better and more efficient at the same time. But this is about the 5th thing you've suggested be made illegal.

a) push too far and companies will just go private - there is a little of this already
b) making stuff illegal is literally limiting property rights and broadly, freedom. Stop telling people what they can and can't do with their stuff.

Stock and ultimately dividends as compensation should not be illegal. But it should be taxed at normal income rates. All income, regardless of how it is earned, should be taxed the same. That would be a step in resolving this investment class culture that has developed.
 

Turn2

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2011
21,978
26,216
113
Clusterfunkeny
I have some sympathy for "sharing the pie" more and trying to reduce inequality. Certainly there are parts of the tax code that could be made better and more efficient at the same time. But this is about the 5th thing you've suggested be made illegal.

a) push too far and companies will just go private - there is a little of this already
b) making stuff illegal is literally limiting property rights and broadly, freedom. Stop telling people what they can and can't do with their stuff.
It was illegal until ‘82, when the foxes got in the henhouse.
 

1SEIACLONE

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2024
2,511
2,351
113
63
Ames Iowa
I have some sympathy for "sharing the pie" more and trying to reduce inequality. Certainly there are parts of the tax code that could be made better and more efficient at the same time. But this is about the 5th thing you've suggested be made illegal.

a) push too far and companies will just go private - there is a little of this already
b) making stuff illegal is literally limiting property rights and broadly, freedom. Stop telling people what they can and can't do with their stuff.
Company are not going to go private because selling stock allows them to grow and expand. Selling your own stock was made legal again under the Reagan administration, it was illegal before then, and should be made illegal again. This has nothing to do with freedom, its a way for companies to keep enriching the people at the top of the chain at the expense of the workers and the regular stock holders.

We have heard for the last 40 years that we cannot raise taxes on corporations because if we do they will leave the country, well they have been outsourcing jobs for decades. Use the tax code to stop them from doing it, tariff American companies that move jobs overseas and the practice would stop or at least slow down. Its about time the government started worrying about the worker instead of the investment class and CEO's.
 

dafarmer

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2012
7,176
6,871
113
SW Iowa
It isnt all cavier and champagne in the Top 10%.

Start as early as you can and it can be done.

What helped us is that we had 22 years of stable employment (wife was laid off this year) and no major health crisis. Even if my wife (upper 40s) never puts another dime towards retirement we will be more then ok come retirement time.

Also we didnt start out with high salarys. I started at $24k and my wife was $26k.
Hope you have great insurance, one bought with cancer can clean you out.
 

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