JC Recruits....

[KMAC_ATTACK]

I wanted to find out why so many people think we should be focusing on HS talent over JUCO talent? I always hear we need to focus on getting a kid here for 4 years...IMO thats a mistake - we need to focus on getting the most talented team on the field possible, if thats through the juco ransk so be it....

Case in point.....Do you remember a JUCO WR from last year that we went after hard and lost out to who....hmmmmm oh yeah LSU, why would a superpower be recruiting JUCOS, they already get 4-5* guys at not only the starters but as backups....

Well, in the last two big games for LSU - lil Byrdie had 10 catches, 120 yards receiving and 3 td's thats why you recruit the JUCO's for some infusion of talent at specific positions, all the big time schools do it including Oregon, USC, LSU, Texas, Michigan everyone is recruiting the JUCO's like a farm club for D-1 talent....

Why should we focus on HS kids? I think our coaches should identify positions that we need the most desperate infusion of talent and recruit the JUCO's hard for the highest rated with least risk player we can - and i know all juco's can be a risk...But, i think our talent level needs to be raised a lot at several positions....i would love to see 5-8 JUCOS coming in this year....Juco's want to play day one, and if the juco is good enough, thats something we can offer at a number of positions.....it should help to recruit talented players to increase our overall talent level...

Would love to hear what other people think about recruiting JUCO's!!!!

 

[cstrunk]

If the JUCO has the potential for immediate playing time or at least competing for the starting spot, then we need to be considering him in recruiting. End of story. I agree with pretty much all that you said. Going after JUCO's isn't a bad thing. However, if you base your entire class off of JUCO's -- that's when you can get into trouble. You need to find a nice balance between 4-year guys and 2-year guys.

 

[cloneu]

It is not like the big schools are taking 5-8 JUCOS everyyear. In the last 3 years LSU, Michigan, USC have signed a combined 6 JUCO players. In 4-6 years I don't want to see a couple senior classes that only have about 4-5 players that contribute.

I would prefer to have seasons like this year at first, then slowly build to something much better (hopefully) down the road. Instead of having a little more success now but not getting much better down the road. There is a reason these players are at JUCO college instead of D1 out of high school. There are plenty of success stories, as we know and the LSU player mentioned but JUCO's are just a quick fix and not much more.

 

[cstrunk]

The main problem is that it is going to take a very long time for us to be able to recruit like the Michigan's, USC's, and LSU's of the college football world, so we're going to have to take what we can get until we can make it into Big 12 Championships and BCS bowls every couple of years. Signing more JUCO's now can help get us there, and then backing off a little bit can help keep us there. But if the JUCO has talent, there is no reason not to consider him.

 

[BryceC]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I like JUCO's in football. I think it creates a sense of urgency as there are a lot of upperclassmen fighting for playing time.

Look at the current crop of ISU NFL Players - Wallace, Dobbins, Hicks... it seems like everybody that we've sent to the NFL have been JUCO guys.

 

[d4cy]

There are a lot of recruits that are busts, including high school and JUCO players. I think there are a handful of top tier JUCOs that the premier programs go after, then there are the "risks" that the rest of us go for. I agree that a lot of our NFL talent has come through JUCO recruits. All players are a risk, but the occasional JUCO that can come in and play three years are not a band-aid, but an asset to our program. We need talented players....I don't care where they come from.

 

[ripvdub]

I dont mind taking a handful of juco's, but i dont think we should be getting 10 or 12 juco's a year. juco's aren't necessarily better than HS players. They are just older and more experienced.

Most cases it seems like they spend 3 quarters of their junior year still learning the sysytem that we run. Before you know it he's gone. You really only get one good year out of a juco. But you're not guaranteed any success with HS or juco players.

 

[psycln11]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I like JUCO's in football. I think it creates a sense of urgency as there are a lot of upperclassmen fighting for playing time.

Look at the current crop of ISU NFL Players - Wallace, Dobbins, Hicks... it seems like everybody that we've sent to the NFL have been JUCO guys.

Hobbs, Sage, Tyson Smith???

 

[Wesley]

Ace Bowen did okay in my book. The oline jucos held up. At this point with a young and new head coach, we have to take the best people possible. Gene may not be able to wait three years to play a high schooler - he needs them in the next two years with our easier conference schedule. The Midwest does have good juco colleges.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

I just say take the best players, regardless. You have to take class spacing into account, but I want the best ballers, regardless of where they came from.

 

[tim_redd]

I think Ace benefited from being here 3 years. Like ripvdub said, they spend most of the first year still learning, then in Ace's case, two years tearing it up. I think the added year is really beneficial.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Or even if they can get in for spring ball. That gives the player such a huge head start.

 

[j_crow]

I agree with basically everyone here in that JUCOs are not unanimously bad for a program; guys like Bowen, Wallace and Hicks have proved that for us. With that said, I don't think that is the ideal situation. For instance, let's say you're going to recruit a player for a given position every 2 years regardless (I know you want at least one a year in almost every position, but for the sake of my argument, we'll say you only recruit one every two years). I would make an argument that if you recruit a freshman every two years, typically you'll have a junior or senior starting the majority of the time, and when they graduate the guy two years behind him will replace him. If that player is a was a freshmen when recruited, that means that he's had two years in the system to bulk up (especially in our current regime with Coach Shep) and learn the system. If that player is a JUCO then he probably won't be quite up to the physical standards we'd like (at least not right away) and he'll be new to the system. In this situation, I'd say the freshman, even if he's less talented coming in, would usually be more beneficial to our football team.

With that said, Iowa State's recruiting is not at the level where we can expect enough freshmen to always develop into Big 12 starters so we'll need the occasional JUCO patch. If we devote too much of a class to JUCOs, though, I would say that we're kind of selling our program out two years down the road because it would then become an ongoing cycle (and I think ISU is a model of the idea that not every JUCO pans out). My opinion at least...

 

[MaxPower57]

JCs are something our current program needs to be successful. While JCs don't always pan out like we'd like, the good thing is if they aren't a good player they are out of the program in 2 years, rather than 5. I wouldn't mind getting another Walter Nickel next year to man the TE position so Catlett can stay at FB. Who knows how good Collin Franklin is.

I don't think we have another TE on the roster other than Franklin, assuming D-Cat is a FB with Barkema, Tinlin, and Howe all gone and the recruit Bykowski probably redshirting and becoming a tackle.

 

[ericlambi]

As of right now, the JUCO players that will come to ISU have more talent than the HS players that will come to ISU (on average). JUCO's are going to be a necessity for success in ISU football.

 

[CyCloned]

It would be nice if someone would look through the last 6 years or so and see what percent of HS guys were a bust and what percent of JC guys were busts. Of course, that would mean determining what a bust is.

I personally think that the JC guys tend to be either really good, or really bad. (Or just don't show up, one of the things that really hurts)

 

[Omaha Cy]

At this point in chizik's career at ISU i think he needs to target some more jucos than down the road say 2 or 3 years. juco guys that appear to have better chance at coming in and making an impact right away to help the team. If ISU could parlay a strong Juco class next fall into some strong wins and "maybe" sneaking intoa bowl at 6-6then it will be a spring board to better HS recruiting.

In the long run I'd prefer hs kids that can come here for 4-5 years and stick, but right now ISU needs impact players to get instant results.

 

[ajjohnson]

I think Ace benefited from being here 3 years. Like ripvdub said, they spend most of the first year still learning, then in Ace's case, two years tearing it up. I think the added year is really beneficial.

He led the nation in tackles LAST year! He didn't "benefit" from it at all, WE did.

 

[isucy86]

This Seems to Be a Weekly Topic

It seems like this topic gets rehashed every week. The final say on this is Coach Chizik and he's been very consistent on his call in show that ISU would only recruit a couple JUCO kids this year. If people are expecting him to go out and sign 6-8 JUCO kids to fill immediately needs- I think they'll be disappointed.

It seems to me GC has a vision and the patience to take his lumps early with the mindset to build for the long term.

In looking at our roster- I don't see many positions where the pipeline of guys on campus can't fill our needs next year:

Offense
We could use a JUCO o-lineman (Mack) but with everyone returning & 4-5 kids that GC redshirted I think the o-line is headed in the right direction.

Defense
We could use a JUCO DT & pass rushing DE, but after that I don't see a need. We have plenty of bodies & returning depth at LB. We might need a JUCO CB, but with Smith & Brown returning at safety we appear solid.

Sure we aren't talented enough to turn down quality JUCO kids, but IMO the staff is more comfortable having kids around for 4-5 year to develop on the field and in the weight room.

 

[KMAC_ATTACK]

Re: This Seems to Be a Weekly Topic

Offense
We could use a JUCO o-lineman (Mack) but with everyone returning & 4-5 kids that GC redshirted I think the o-line is headed in the right direction.

Defense
We could use a JUCO DT & pass rushing DE, but after that I don't see a need. We have plenty of bodies & returning depth at LB. We might need a JUCO CB, but with Smith & Brown returning at safety we appear solid.

Sure we aren't talented enough to turn down quality JUCO kids, but IMO the staff is more comfortable having kids around for 4-5 year to develop on the field and in the weight room.

Couldnt agree more, that in an ideal situation (i.e. Ohio St or Michigan or Texas) we go out and recruit 4-5* starters and reserves....we may never be in a situation to compete with that....But, you can supplement the lack of HS kids coming into the program with Juco kids striving to get the overall talent level up at ISU....

I reviewed the recruiting classes at KU over the last 5 years, it was remarkable to see the turnaround that success has on your recruiting. 5 years ago they were recruiting 1-2* guys, now they're recruiting it seems only 3-4* guys.....that brings the overall level of talent up and success breeds recruiting - no doubt about it....not to mention decent weather......

But to say we should only go after 3-4 jucos IMO i hope your wrong, as with Chiz and JP, they've been known to bluff a bit. Right now according to JC Recruiting, we've been in contact with 29 players that have us listed as a potential, 7 currently hold offers. Several that do not have offers yet are 4* caliber players...the 7 that do are: 1 Tackle, 2-WR, 2-DE, 1-MLB, 1-CB. I agree with your assessment for the most part, however, i would be much happier if we signed a stud CB, WR, DT. Obviously with the way this staff is recruiting the JUCO DE and HS DE, our DE play is not cutting it and i would agree for the most part - not a lot of pressures all season and when your leading sack guy had 3 or 4, thats bad. I think a really good cover(Better then Bell) would be a great get and allow the DL a bit more time for sacks....right now the wr get open so quick its like a 3 step drop and pass is gone, extremely tough to get pressure.

I have all the confidence in the whatever direction Chiz has planned, he's the man.

THis is to CLONEU - for LSU, MICHIGAN and USC have only signed 6 players in the last three years.....try these numbers on....LSU currently has 6 offers out to JC, FSU, MIAMI and FLORIDA all have 5 offers out, OKLAHOMA has 8 offers our there and the big ones NEBRASKA and OREGON have 11 offers out there right now for JC players - those are actual scholarship offers - by the way, ISU has 7 offers out....

MICHIGAN, OHIO ST, VIRGINA TECH, WISCONSIN - zero offers out there.....

I hope we sign 6-7 jucos in strategic spots that are athletes, if we're getting better athletes on the field and we have them for two years but they bring success to the program, thats how you then recruit the higher rated hs players. To say were only going to get a year out of them is not true. The main reason it took so long this year for the players to get adjusted was because the whole team was learning. Now we have returning starters and reserves that can help to digest the reads and processes in the various offensive and defensive schemes - last years team didnt have that resource. So here's my picks....
2-WR (1 already - would love to get Deryn Bowser or Myron Dillard 4.28)
1 or 2- OL (Cedric Mack, Jason Donnal)
1 or 2- DL (Derrick Chatman or a DT)
1 or 2- LB (James Collins former ISU commit or Korey Fry)
1 or 2- CB (Maurice Gray or Chris Siddens)

There's my list.....