Is this team tired? Does TJ need to ease up the rest of the way?

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Last night wasn't fatigue, it was 100% wreck less basketball. Tamin shooting 7 three's in the first half and the team combining for 10 TO's tells you everything you need o know. So many dumb way too early in the shot clock three's for my liking. Okie State was overplaying everything and last night could have been a layup drill but we decided to be cute. Fatigue is nothing but a cop out.

 

[madguy30]

So 1 of his 4 years was good, and 3 of 4 weren’t. Maybe I’m tired of people justifying losses by saying we are tired and haven’t been fully healthy - ok, but NO ONE is fully healthy and not tired.

Great teams overcome injuries and fatigue. I’ve come to the conclusion that this isn’t a great team. It’s a very good team that could do something special in March. But it’s okay to acknowledge this team has greatly underperformed over the last 1.5 months and didn’t capitalize on an opportunity to challenge for a conference title and #1/#2 seed.

Other teams get injuries and have lulls in their seasons too. Most of ISU's losses happened when Milan was out and many players haven't been 100% for a lot of the year.

No, the first two TJ Februarys weren't good largely due to a talent disparity and ISU had jumped on opponents earlier in the season with disruptive defense before those opponents had had much time playing together. It was a great formula for the players available.

We don't know if the team has underperformed as their wins could be also be from overperformance. The answer is likely somewhere in between. I know when I watch other teams I feel like I see a lot more athleticism than what this team has.

 

[CYdTracked]

This team has trouble making 2 free throws in a row

Depends on the night and context as we have had some really good nights at the FT line this season too. We do seem to miss a lot of front ends of 1 and 1 attempts which hurts because we come away with 0 points instead of 1 or 2. We don't have a FT liability like Robert Jones in the rotation this year either where you were happy if he made 1 of 2. We have 9 guys that are all shooting 70% or better from the FT line, 3 of them are also 80%+ Compare that to last year and we had Jones at 51% and Ward at 58%. Omaha and Watson didn't play much last year to really count their lower FT% but you get the point...

 

[VeloClone]

100% this. I’m not sure why people want to try and justify why we are 6-6 with tiredness (all teams are tired and play the same # of games), injuries (we lost our 5th best player for a month and people have been using that as a reason why we went 3-4), etc.

We aren’t going to win the conference, we can still get a decent seed, and we’ll now put all of our eggs into March. We can still have a super successful season. So I don’t know why it’s so taboo to talk about this team’s struggles or why TJ’a teams are very mediocre in February.

You make some good points but this part is so disingenuous. He may not be ISU's best player but he is irreplaceable on this roster for what he does and what he does to defenses. The roster literally doesn't have anyone else who can do what he does. If you didn't see it with your own eyes did you listen to the multiple talking heads talk about what he provides to this team when he is on the floor and how ISU being without him affected the entire offense?

The other question is are TJ's teams playing really bad for their talent level in February or are his teams playing above their talent level for most of the rest of the seasons?

Part of getting teams to play to the very top of their capabilities is that when things happen so they can't and/or don't play to the top of their capabilities they look a lot worse. Coaches and analysts rave about TJ's roster building. It is a part of his success. When the roster is hamstrung the chances for success go down and the chances of letdowns go up.

 

[CYdTracked]

We don't know if the team has underperformed as their wins could be also be from overperformance. The answer is likely somewhere in between. I know when I watch other teams I feel like I see a lot more athleticism than what this team has.

The OT win @TT is a prime example how we didn't play great but found a way to win. The @AZ loss is another where we blew a lead and was a hail mary 3 away from winning, The 1 point loss to Auburn another that we had a blown lead. It's just who we are right now, we've shown we can be beat good teams but then we have also looked bad in losses against teams like KSU and OSU that we should beat. I'm not too critical of the losses @WVU, @KU, and @Hou. We didn't have Milan for the first 2 and no Jones and Gilbert for the other. I was at the KU game and that was a tough loss to watch in person as we played terrible but even with one of our better efforts that is a tough place to win at.

When I look at our W/L as of now the losses to KSU and OSU are the 2 that moves us down to a 3 seed vs a 2. All the other losses were on the road against quality opponents and 2 of those (Auburn and AZ) we were literally seconds away from wins if not for a tip in at the end of the game against Auburn and a miracle lob @AZ.

If we want to get back on the 2 seed line we need to win these last 3 regular season games and at least make the conference tournament championship. Yes we have 2 top 25 opponents up next but they are both at Hilton, we have to defend the home court then we need to go to KSU and just beat the crap out of them after being embarrassed in Hilton. If we struggle some more and say lose 2 of 3 then not make it far in KC could see our seeding drop to a 4 next. I have faith that TJ and the guys will get this figured out and finish strong.

 

[NoCreativity]

When I look at our W/L as of now the losses to KSU and OSU are the 2 that moves us down to a 3 seed vs a 2.

This was Oklahoma States first Q1 win of the entire season. The rest of their wins are against the bottom of the Big 12. This is by far the worst loss we've seen since the Pitt game in 2023.

 

[Clonefan32]

Last night wasn't fatigue, it was 100% wreck less basketball. Tamin shooting 7 three's in the first half and the team combining for 10 TO's tells you everything you need o know. So many dumb way too early in the shot clock three's for my liking. Okie State was overplaying everything and last night could have been a layup drill but we decided to be cute. Fatigue is nothing but a cop out.

Do you not see how fatigue can be related to these things? Being a step slow can result in turnovers too. Now sure, I think a big part of it is just being wreckless with the ball and bad habits not being corrected. But anyone who has played basketball knows how much dead legs can effect your game.

There was one series in the first half that I think summed things up. CuJo missed a shot and OSU tried saving it. They threw it back in, two guys just starred at it, the guy who threw it in go the ball, we got beat in transition, they missed the layup and we didn't block out and they got a put back. It just looks like a tired team.

 

[ScottyP]

Do you think the turnover issues get corrected this season? Or is that who we are at this point?

 

[AdRock4Cy]

Last night wasn't fatigue, it was 100% wreck less basketball. Tamin shooting 7 three's in the first half and the team combining for 10 TO's tells you everything you need o know. So many dumb way too early in the shot clock three's for my liking. Okie State was overplaying everything and last night could have been a layup drill but we decided to be cute. Fatigue is nothing but a cop out.

This, every other team is tired and hurt as well. No excuses.

 

[cycloneworld]

You make some good points but this part is so disingenuous. He may not be ISU's best player but he is irreplaceable on this roster for what he does and what he does to defenses. The roster literally doesn't have anyone else who can do what he does. If you didn't see it with your own eyes did you listen to the multiple talking heads talk about what he provides to this team when he is on the floor and how ISU being without him affected the entire offense?

The other question is are TJ's teams playing really bad for their talent level in February or are his teams playing above their talent level for most of the rest of the seasons?

Part of getting teams to play to the very top of their capabilities is that when things happen so they can't and/or don't play to the top of their capabilities they look a lot worse. Coaches and analysts rave about TJ's roster building. It is a part of his success. When the roster is hamstrung the chances for success go down and the chances of letdowns go up.

We had him last night and got beat by the worst team in the conference. But your point is taken and valid. But if we are so contingent on 1 player, then we aren’t really a legitimate threat unless 100% of the players stay healthy and aren’t “tired”.

I’m not melting down over this loss. It is what it is and since our conference title chances went away on Saturday, it’s 100% of our eggs in March’s basket. I’m more annoyed that many people want to justify “our best team ever” (it’s not) losing by a long list of excuses. The fact is we were #2 in the country and are now 11-6 in a mid Big 12 conference. If that’s all because Milan missed a month and Gilbert missed the last 2 games, then let’s acknowledge that everything must go exactly right for us to be an actual Final Four contender.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Last night wasn't fatigue, it was 100% wreck less basketball. Tamin shooting 7 three's in the first half and the team combining for 10 TO's tells you everything you need o know. So many dumb way too early in the shot clock three's for my liking. Okie State was overplaying everything and last night could have been a layup drill but we decided to be cute. Fatigue is nothing but a cop out.

You described what fatigued players do

I get why we don’t want to think it could be something deeper than “playing dumb” or just not caring enough (play reckless)

One of our biggest talents is consistently playing harder than the opponent. Fatigue is going to cause this team to falter more than others

 

[Cyinthenorth]

This came up last year before they won the Big 12 tornament.

They didn't look tired Saturday. And there was plenty of energy in the 2nd half last night.

It came to valuing the ball and the group has been weird with that all season despite good numbers.

The first two TJ season fall outs were a mixture of an athletically limited roster getting caught up to and some weirdness with Grill throwing everything off.

This is also a more limited team than what's perceived but they are allergic to patience.

Yeah the only players that looked tired last night were Curtis coming off his illness and Jackson. But if we're being honest, Jackson is just simply not very fleet of foot and had nothing to do with him being tired.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

This, every other team is tired and hurt as well. No excuses.

You described what fatigued players do

I get why we don’t want to think it could be something deeper than “playing dumb” or just not caring enough (play reckless)

One of our biggest talents is consistently playing harder than the opponent. Fatigue is going to cause this team to falter more than others

We walked into Stillwater and thought we could go though the motions and it backfired. We tried to kick it into gear but we just couldn't find it. It' that simple.

 

[FinalFourCy]

We walked into Stillwater and thought we could go though the motions and it backfired. We tried to kick it into gear but we just couldn't find it. It' that simple.

I appreciate the cope, but we’ve been struggling with consistency for weeks.

 

[madguy30]

Do you think the turnover issues get corrected this season? Or is that who we are at this point?

Maybe a little but like last night, as soon as ISU got things going, there were maybe 2-3 possessions with turnovers or hurried shots.
It's apparently really tricky for this group to 'make the simple play' as TJ says.

 

[VeloClone]

We had him last night and got beat by the worst team in the conference. But your point is taken and valid. But if we are so contingent on 1 player, then we aren’t really a legitimate threat unless 100% of the players stay healthy and aren’t “tired”.

I’m not melting down over this loss. It is what it is and since our conference title chances went away on Saturday, it’s 100% of our eggs in March’s basket. I’m more annoyed that many people want to justify “our best team ever” (it’s not) losing by a long list of excuses. The fact is we were #2 in the country and are now 11-6 in a mid Big 12 conference. If that’s all because Milan missed a month and Gilbert missed the last 2 games, then let’s acknowledge that everything must go exactly right for us to be an actual Final Four contender.

The Big 12 isn't the top conference in the country for the first time in nearly a decade but it is far from mid.

 

[ClubCy]

Maybe a little but like last night, as soon as ISU got things going, there were maybe 2-3 possessions with turnovers or hurried shots.
It's apparently really tricky for this group to 'make the simple play' as TJ says.

We aren’t best shooting team but we are capable. The turnovers I cannot stand are the “extra pass” turnovers. Take the shot.

Obviously, the extra pass leading to a better shot is always preferred but we pass up a lot of good open looks for potential great looks and often throw it away.

 

[cycloneworld]

The Big 12 isn't the top conference in the country for the first time in nearly a decade but it is far from mid.

It's definitely mid from a recent historical Big 12 perspective...

 

[OscarBerkshire]

Not even sure what the title means... just rest everyone the rest of the way and play our bench? Essentially forfeit 3 games? I mean that could work but then you get a harder bracket. This team's ceiling is a sweet sixteen anyway

 

[VeloClone]

It's definitely mid from a recent historical Big 12 perspective...

Not being up to snuff with the previous versions of the conference still is in no way mid. Depending on the metric used it is still generally #1 or #2 in the country. Far from mid. Frankly about the only thing holding the conference back from where it was in previous years is that there are few more "weak" teams at the bottom of the league. But it is looking like some of those may not have necessarily been weak but rather took a little longer to gel.