Heroball

[Cyclonestate78]

This team just isn't built to stop anyone, the pieces are not here. It is what it is, it's just not built that way.

Are you kidding? They have a shot blocker in McKay, they have an athletic freak in Hogue, they have a couple of big body guys in Niang and Nader, they have a PG in Morris that can defend one on one, they have size to defend smaller guards in BDJ (crazy wingspan) and Long, they have a bulldozer in Edozie if needed to get in there and spill some blood in the paint, etc... What they lack in size they make up for in athleticism and what they lack in on-ball defending they make up for with a shot blocking presence.

The problem isn't their ability to defend... the problem is their lack of desire to defend. Playing defense isn't fun, it isn't sexy, and quite frankly it requires the guys to expend a lot of energy that may go unnoticed. Anybody remember that play last night when Hogue chased Buddy all over the floor for about 20 seconds and got a hand in his face and he missed a 3 pointer? I didn't think so. Anybody remember all of those 3's that Hogue was draining in the 1st half? Yeah... I do too.

This is the one issue I have with Hoiball in general terms. The Mayor's system is fast paced, it's high flying, it's exciting, it's high scoring, but the one thing it's not is defensive minded. This idea that they can play passive defense and just outscore everyone simply won't work. Iowa State played one of their best offensive half's this season last night dropping 46 on OU's defense which is ranked 8th in the country in defensive efficiency. Now that's impressive... but they also gave up 46 points on the defensive end. Anybody notice the difference between OU's defense in the 2nd half compared to the 1st half? OU cranked up the pressure, they pushed the guards out on the perimeter, they tightened things up in the paint, they got back in transition, and ISU was taken completely out of their game. The team with the better defense won, the team with desire to play defense won, the team with the "We're going to shut you down" attitude won that game.

A great offense can give you a chance to win games. A great defense will win you games. There is a big difference.

Look at college hoops over the last 10 to 15 years.... look at the teams that consistently make deep runs in March... Wisconsin - not so good offensively but great defensively
Michigan State - not so good offensively but great defensively
Ohio State - not so good offensively but great defensively
Kansas - not always good offensively but great defensively
Syracuse - not so good offensively but great defensively


Look at the defensive efficiency rankings this year...

1. Kentucky... what is their AP ranking? 23-0 ranked #1
2. Virginia... what is their AP ranking? 21-1 ranked #2
4. Louisville... what is their AP ranking? 19-4 ranked #9
6. Utah... what is their AP ranking? 18-4 ranked #11
7. Arizona... what is their AP ranking? 20-3 ranked #7
10. Villanova... what is their AP ranking? 21-2 ranked #6


Indiana is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-7 because they are ranked 275th in defensive efficiency.

Oregon is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-7 because they are ranked 184th in defensive efficiency.

BYU is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 18-8 because they are ranked 190th in defensive efficiency.

ISU is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-6 because they are ranked 103rd in defensive efficiency.

Defense wins games... and it is simply a question of do these guys want to work hard on the defensive end or not? Right now the answer is no.

 

[BigLame]

Agree with Cyclonestate78.

What did KU do at Allen Fieldhouse? They ran that weave-action until they could get closer to the basket with their perimeter players & attack the rim, kick out for open jumpers to Selden, or isolate down low on whoever Niang was guarding.

What did OU do last night? Sound familiar? Our perimeter D loses intensity after the weave-action side to side. Interest is lost in playing D & everything opens up. It is a commitment issue on the defensive end all-around.

As to Heroball? BDJ's numbers may look ok, but quite a few of his shots are so bad they should be considered turnovers. Niang is trying to make too many awesome passes rather than just get it to the guy who is completely wide open, pre-spin move.

We have time to figure this out & for chemistry and toughness to improve, but it is a grind. Hopefully Fred, the staff, and all the players keep sawing wood and figure it out. Still a lot to play for.

 

[JRE1975]

Last night was not hero ball. Watch the replay, we got gassed after 15 minutes and everyone was standing around and not moving to get in space, so we had to go to the people who can create their own shots. BDJ was the only one with any energy left in the second half, MM and Niang became worthless for most of the second half. It happens when you play a good defensive team hitting a high % of tough shots and all of their easy shots on their home court.

We will see later how we do against OU when we have our home crowd to help keep the energy levels up, I think we will win.

 

[cycloneworld]

Bryce is used to being the best offensive option on his team his entire life. On crucial possessions in tight games, Bryce feels its his job to get a bucket, stats are not going to measure when ball is slinging around the perimeter and when it arrives to Bryce he pauses, measures up his defender, meanwhile the D recovers, Bryce takes 4 dribbles and gets an isolated shot or he passes back up top in which the crisp passing must take place again in order to get the defense out of position. That's BDJ's biggest offense, the ball sticks in his hands the most.

If he continues to shoot 51% from the floor, he can take every single shot for this team. Outside of Hogue (59%) and McKay (62% but that's almost exclusively in the paint), BDJ is our best % scorer on this team.

 

[isufbcurt]

If he continues to shoot 51% from the floor, he can take every single shot for this team. Outside of Hogue (59%) and McKay (62% but that's almost exclusively in the paint), BDJ is our best % scorer on this team.

Exactly I personally think BDJ need to shoot more and continue to be aggressive. Sure passing to the open guy is all and good but sometimes someone just needs to take over and score. I love Niang but so much lately he passes up a good shot and turns it over trying to pass it to much.

 

[AMarner32]

Exactly I personally think BDJ need to shoot more and continue to be aggressive. Sure passing to the open guy is all and good but sometimes someone just needs to take over and score. I love Niang but so much lately he passes up a good shot and turns it over trying to pass it to much.

I agree. Fans love DeAndre Kane and he was probably the biggest example of "Heroball" we've seen in the Hoiberg era, but it was okay because he was so talented and he shot a decent %.

Sometimes you just need a player to take over. Last year it was Kane, no question. BDJ seems like the best candidate for that this year.

 

[SCISUFAN]

Are you kidding? They have a shot blocker in McKay, they have an athletic freak in Hogue, they have a couple of big body guys in Niang and Nader, they have a PG in Morris that can defend one on one, they have size to defend smaller guards in BDJ (crazy wingspan) and Long, they have a bulldozer in Edozie if needed to get in there and spill some blood in the paint, etc... What they lack in size they make up for in athleticism and what they lack in on-ball defending they make up for with a shot blocking presence.

I see why Cyclonestate78 is a legend. I didn't want to put the whole quote in, but this is exactly right. This is not about talent anymore. That may have been 4 years ago but not anymore. I would only add to the defense part, that better rebounding and stopping the careless turnovers is something else this talented team can do if they put their mind to it.

 

[twocoach]

Are you kidding? They have a shot blocker in McKay, they have an athletic freak in Hogue, they have a couple of big body guys in Niang and Nader, they have a PG in Morris that can defend one on one, they have size to defend smaller guards in BDJ (crazy wingspan) and Long, they have a bulldozer in Edozie if needed to get in there and spill some blood in the paint, etc... What they lack in size they make up for in athleticism and what they lack in on-ball defending they make up for with a shot blocking presence. The problem isn't their ability to defend... the problem is their lack of desire to defend...

The athletic freak Hogue is 6'6" and 220 pounds. He has his limitations on defense. And Niang is a big body but he is a terrible defender who gets even worse when he is in foul trouble and worried about getting sent to the bench. But I 100% agree with you that defense is largely mental. There has to be a dedication to it. Even teams that are good defensively have games where they do not come out with the same intensity on the defensive end and get burned. It's kind of a chicken or egg argument to figure out if they are not playing aggressive defense because it wears them out and they don't want to risk affecting their offense or if they aren't playing aggressive defense because their offensive style wears them out and they can't go full tilt at both ends. Maybe a few more solid rotation guys to give a few key players (Morris & Niang) a breather would keep them fresh and make them feel like they could amp it up on defense and not risk their offensive game plan. Who knows.

 

[nhclone]

Came into thread for the wonderful combo of Tuco and "Heroball." No mention of Kansas anywhere....leaving disappointed.

 

[klamath632]

We got away from making the extra pass in the 2nd half. Everyone started driving the lane and forcing up shots instead of kicking it out once the lane clogged up. What's worse is that our coach did absolutely nothing to stop it. I know Fred loves having TOs to burn with 30 seconds left in the game, but he should have been calling multiple TOs early in the 2nd half. By the time he woke up the game was already out of hand.

The players aren't faultless, but when the entire team consistently shows a lack of fundamentals and composure away from home that's on Fred. This isn't isolated to this year's team, rather it's been a trend his entire career. Instead of changing out he operates, he DOES EXACTLY THE SAME THING EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT

 

[Cyclonestate78]

The athletic freak Hogue is 6'6" and 220 pounds. He has his limitations on defense. And Niang is a big body but he is a terrible defender who gets even worse when he is in foul trouble and worried about getting sent to the bench. But I 100% agree with you that defense is largely mental. There has to be a dedication to it. Even teams that are good defensively have games where they do not come out with the same intensity on the defensive end and get burned. It's kind of a chicken or egg argument to figure out if they are not playing aggressive defense because it wears them out and they don't want to risk affecting their offense or if they aren't playing aggressive defense because their offensive style wears them out and they can't go full tilt at both ends. Maybe a few more solid rotation guys to give a few key players (Morris & Niang) a breather would keep them fresh and make them feel like they could amp it up on defense and not risk their offensive game plan. Who knows.

It's simple mistakes too. On the perimeter our guards will slide off to the side of their man to almost encourage them to take the ball to the basket where McKay is waiting... so when their man bites and drives into the lane the entire defense collapses into the lane with him. The consequence is that you now have left multiple shooters unguarded on the perimeter and one pass can kill you. You get a smaller guy taking it into the lane against your 6'9" shot blocker with a 7'4" wingspan... that is the matchup you want so let him try and take it at McKay. Chances are pretty good McKay can either block the shot or at least force the guy to alter his shot and he'll miss.

I'll take a guard trying to take McKay to the basket rather then leaving guys like Selden, Hield, Forte, etc... wide open on the perimeter. As we have witnessed... leaving shooters wide open outside is deadly for ISU.

 

[jbhtexas]

It's simple mistakes too. On the perimeter our guards will slide off to the side of their man to almost encourage them to take the ball to the basket where McKay is waiting... so when their man bites and drives into the lane the entire defense collapses into the lane with him. The consequence is that you now have left multiple shooters unguarded on the perimeter and one pass can kill you. You get a smaller guy taking it into the lane against your 6'9" shot blocker with a 7'4" wingspan... that is the matchup you want so let him try and take it at McKay. Chances are pretty good McKay can either block the shot or at least force the guy to alter his shot and he'll miss.

I'll take a guard trying to take McKay to the basket rather then leaving guys like Selden, Hield, Forte, etc... wide open on the perimeter. As we have witnessed... leaving shooters wide open outside is deadly for ISU.

I see what you describe happen time after time. I don't know if this is just the players or whether this is coached, but I think it is a dangerous strategy for a guard to purposefully "bait" his man to drive on the shot blocker, whether or not he gets out and guards the perimeter after doing so. When this is done, the shot blocker has to leave his man, and unless the team plays very disciplined defense and has a near flawless rotation scheme, the team has opened itself up to an offensive rebound or a dish to a big man for an easy score.

IMO, the shot blocker is protection so the other guys can confidently go guard aggressively, knowing that if they do get burned the shot blocker has their back. If ISU guards are purposely letting guys drive by to take on McKay, no wonder physical teams destroy the Clones in the paint. ISU doesn't have the physicality or discipline to pull that off.

I love McKay's energy and effort, but last night, he couldn't guard his man straight up either.

 

[twocoach]

It's simple mistakes too. On the perimeter our guards will slide off to the side of their man to almost encourage them to take the ball to the basket where McKay is waiting... so when their man bites and drives into the lane the entire defense collapses into the lane with him. The consequence is that you now have left multiple shooters unguarded on the perimeter and one pass can kill you. You get a smaller guy taking it into the lane against your 6'9" shot blocker with a 7'4" wingspan... that is the matchup you want so let him try and take it at McKay. Chances are pretty good McKay can either block the shot or at least force the guy to alter his shot and he'll miss. I'll take a guard trying to take McKay to the basket rather then leaving guys like Selden, Hield, Forte, etc... wide open on the perimeter. As we have witnessed... leaving shooters wide open outside is deadly for ISU.

That's a great point. Too often, perimeter defenders can rely too much on their shot eraser being a mistake eraser instead of just doing their best to eliminate the possession right there on the spot. It's like they say "I'll just take this half away from him and my shot blocker will take care of the other half. That only works if the rest of the team is aware of what you're doing and helping out with it. I know McKay has been practicing with the team for a while now but I'd be curious to know just how much time this current rotation practiced together before McKay became eligible. Maybe McKay spent some time with the starters but odds are he was on the "other" team in practice so the guys starting at the time could practice as a unit. Mid-season transfers seem to be harder to work into the fold than guys that are eligible at the beginning of the year. At least it seems that way.

 

[Dad55Alumni]

Are you kidding? They have a shot blocker in McKay, they have an athletic freak in Hogue, they have a couple of big body guys in Niang and Nader, they have a PG in Morris that can defend one on one, they have size to defend smaller guards in BDJ (crazy wingspan) and Long, they have a bulldozer in Edozie if needed to get in there and spill some blood in the paint, etc... What they lack in size they make up for in athleticism and what they lack in on-ball defending they make up for with a shot blocking presence.

The problem isn't their ability to defend... the problem is their lack of desire to defend. Playing defense isn't fun, it isn't sexy, and quite frankly it requires the guys to expend a lot of energy that may go unnoticed. Anybody remember that play last night when Hogue chased Buddy all over the floor for about 20 seconds and got a hand in his face and he missed a 3 pointer? I didn't think so. Anybody remember all of those 3's that Hogue was draining in the 1st half? Yeah... I do too.

This is the one issue I have with Hoiball in general terms. The Mayor's system is fast paced, it's high flying, it's exciting, it's high scoring, but the one thing it's not is defensive minded. This idea that they can play passive defense and just outscore everyone simply won't work. Iowa State played one of their best offensive half's this season last night dropping 46 on OU's defense which is ranked 8th in the country in defensive efficiency. Now that's impressive... but they also gave up 46 points on the defensive end. Anybody notice the difference between OU's defense in the 2nd half compared to the 1st half? OU cranked up the pressure, they pushed the guards out on the perimeter, they tightened things up in the paint, they got back in transition, and ISU was taken completely out of their game. The team with the better defense won, the team with desire to play defense won, the team with the "We're going to shut you down" attitude won that game.

A great offense can give you a chance to win games. A great defense will win you games. There is a big difference.

Look at college hoops over the last 10 to 15 years.... look at the teams that consistently make deep runs in March... Wisconsin - not so good offensively but great defensively
Michigan State - not so good offensively but great defensively
Ohio State - not so good offensively but great defensively
Kansas - not always good offensively but great defensively
Syracuse - not so good offensively but great defensively


Look at the defensive efficiency rankings this year...

1. Kentucky... what is their AP ranking? 23-0 ranked #1
2. Virginia... what is their AP ranking? 21-1 ranked #2
4. Louisville... what is their AP ranking? 19-4 ranked #9
6. Utah... what is their AP ranking? 18-4 ranked #11
7. Arizona... what is their AP ranking? 20-3 ranked #7
10. Villanova... what is their AP ranking? 21-2 ranked #6


Indiana is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-7 because they are ranked 275th in defensive efficiency.

Oregon is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-7 because they are ranked 184th in defensive efficiency.

BYU is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 18-8 because they are ranked 190th in defensive efficiency.

ISU is one of the highest scoring teams in the country but they are 17-6 because they are ranked 103rd in defensive efficiency.

Defense wins games... and it is simply a question of do these guys want to work hard on the defensive end or not? Right now the answer is no.

In conference games, KU is first in Effective FG% Defense (42%) and Iowa State is eighth (49%). You win championships with defense. Hoiberg is an offensive minded coach.