Football talk: Legit Concerns that Hawkeyes should have about ISU

[homerHAWKeye777]

I've got a question for Hawk fans...(I guess really for anyone)

If UofI's strength is their LBs, would you think that NP would be more likely to go to a 3-3-5 rather than a nickle or dime to keep the LBs on the field? I think it makes sence. Just curious.
Also, who would you consider the best spread offense you have faced in recent years?

Iowa's D almost always features a LB who is a LEO rather than the standard SAM OLB. That means that Iowa's OLB is a hybrid position ... they still require the guy to cover ... but the guy is also meant to serve kinda like a DE. Thus, depending on the offensive set or what the D reads ... you'll often see the LEO lined up much closer to the line of scrimmage than a SAM (another reason why he's more like a hybrid LB/DE).

Anyhow, the benefit of having a LEO LB is that it affords Iowa a bit more flexibility with our 4-3 and 3-4 formations.

As I alluded in a prior post ... Iowa doesn't always have the depth in the secondary to pull off extra-DB packages. Thus, Iowa toys around with the schemes based on the personnel we have. Last year Iowa was kinda deep at safety ... so Iowa was then playing a lot of 3-4 sets where the extra LB was really more of "spur" LB.

However, Iowa lost 2 talented safeties over the past year (Tillison and Morrow) because they knew that they weren't going to start over the current starters. Thus, depth at safety isn't quite as good anymore. However, now Iowa has better talent/depth at CB ... so I now kinda anticipate that Iowa will mix up it's nickel packages more.

 

[egami]

What's your take on Iowa's 3-4 then? Admittedly, Iowa just uses it situationally ... and pretty much only when they're anticipating pass ... and that's the very reason why Iowa can use it without needing a 2-gap NT.

My take is just that...they use it situationally, from what I've seen it's more of a Prevent D.

Furthermore, with having Edds at LEO ... Iowa's 3-4 is very much just a 4-3 in disguise ... at least based on what they read. Of course, when Iowa reads run out of their 4-3 ... it's then a bit more like Iowa's old 5-2.

Anyhow, the biggest reason why Iowa tends to stick more with it's 4-3 and 3-4 is because Iowa doesn't always have the depth in the secondary to pull off nickel/dime looks that are really effective. Of course, Iowa has obviously been trying to change that (just look at how they've been recruiting).

If that's what you think, I am not going to argue. I still think the main reason they run 4-3 is because of their general football philosophy based on coaching comments. It's been brought up numerous times over the years. I also think the fact that they typically don't have 2-gap DT is also another big reason.

The fact is, Iowa doesn't need to run a 3-4, for that matter, because most of the conference is either power running or a passing Spread versus Spread Option and their D as is, barring talent, is pretty well suited. Why change it.

 

[DJK15]

If Iowa were to drop into the 3-4 on a passing down they would probably put one of the monstrous DE's at NT and bring Binns in at the other DE position.

 

[egami]

Well if you're dropping into a 3-4 Prevent type D on a passing down you just need your 3 best rushers on the line...a 2-gap NT only really matters for running 3-4 for as a main staple for run-stuffing.

Prevent D is a whole different ball game...I am anti-Prevent D.

 

[Clark]

Well if you're dropping into a 3-4 Prevent type D on a passing down you just need your 3 best rushers on the line...a 2-gap NT only really matters for running 3-4 for as a main staple for run-stuffing.

Prevent D is a whole different ball game...I am anti-Prevent D.

It's hard for me to tell the difference between Iowa's prevent and Iowa's usual defense.:smile:

 

[ahaselhu]

I said it wasn't perfect. But I only used Big 12 games for the conf percentage so your example doesn't apply.

Ok I think I'm not being understood correctly. I didn't say that the ONLY reason that the offensive numbers in the Big 12 was because the defenses weren't good. The quarterback play in the Big 12 definately is a factor.

Also, I'd like to point out that all of the defenses in the Big 12 weren't bad. Generally, I'd say Texas and OU had good defenses for the most part. I think there were a few defenses in that conference that really inflated the opponents numbers. That's all I was trying to say.

I agree with this. K-state, ISU, and TAMU were all horrible defenses (>35 ppg). Outside of Texas and Oklahoma, everyone else was at best average.

Big XII defenses in general weren't as bad as they've been made out to be, but they definitely weren't good either.

 

[egami]

It's hard for me to tell the difference between Iowa's prevent and Iowa's usual defense.:smile:

LOL.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

If that's what you think, I am not going to argue. I still think the main reason they run 4-3 is because of their general football philosophy based on coaching comments. It's been brought up numerous times over the years. I also think the fact that they typically don't have 2-gap DT is also another big reason.

The fact is, Iowa doesn't need to run a 3-4, for that matter, because most of the conference is either power running or a passing Spread versus Spread Option and their D as is, barring talent, is pretty well suited. Why change it.

egami-

With regard to your first comment, Ferentz has explicitly stated numerous times that personnel in the secondary is a big reason why Iowa doesn't use extra-DB packages more.

As for how Iowa uses the 3-4 ... yeah, it is used as a form of prevent D. However, it's not the standard prevent either. Rather than guarding solely against the big-play ... some of Iowa's situational use of the 3-4 is to prevent BOTH the big play AND first-down reception. Of course, as always, it's all about keeping everything in front of them too.

Of course, Iowa used the 3-4 quite a bit against Texas Tech back in '01 ... and not just situationally.

Just as you said, Iowa doesn't need to go to the 3-4. I certainly wouldn't advocate it for Iowa as a base-scheme. However, I think that it's a decent situational package for Iowa to occasionally use.

 

[egami]

egami-

With regard to your first comment, Ferentz has explicitly stated numerous times that personnel in the secondary is a big reason why Iowa doesn't use extra-DB packages more.

Well, I wasn't talking specifically about extra nickel and dime packages to begin with. I was talking about 3-man fronts which isn't inherently a nickel or dime package.

Frankly, I've never heard Ferentz say that, but maybe he did...it's funny because often times the reason for coaches to go to a nickel or dime package is specifically because you don't have secondary talent...that's the point of it, to better defend the passing lanes.

When I've heard 3-4 defense questions posed the response has always been philosophy-based. Never a talent issue.

As for how Iowa uses the 3-4 ... yeah, it is used as a form of prevent D. However, it's not the standard prevent either. Rather than guarding solely against the big-play ... some of Iowa's situational use of the 3-4 is to prevent BOTH the big play AND first-down reception. Of course, as always, it's all about keeping everything in front of them too.

Which by definition is a Prevent D...keeping everything in front and not pressuring the QB.

Of course, Iowa used the 3-4 quite a bit against Texas Tech back in '01 ... and not just situationally.

Just as you said, Iowa doesn't need to go to the 3-4. I certainly wouldn't advocate it for Iowa as a base-scheme. However, I think that it's a decent situational package for Iowa to occasionally use.

I never implied it was a bad package for them.

 

[IowaGuy]

I posted this on HawkeyeNation ... but I thought that was worth posting here too. The closer we get to the big game, the more concerned I get about it. And, yes, I do care about the game ... so please lets all be adults and drop the banter about which team/fan-base cares more about the game.

The mods can feel free to move this to the In-State rivals forum ... however, since I'd LOVE for this thread to focus on FOOTBALL ... ideally this puppy remains in the football forum.

Regardless of what Hawkeye fans might try to say to put down ISU ... the fact will remain that ISU should be pretty darn good on O. There should definitely be plenty points of concern for the Iowa D. As a whole, here are things that I'm concerned about -

1) While an absolutely HUGE OL doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in itself ... but the guys on the ISU OL are also pretty decent and pretty experienced. Thus, I wouldn't underestimate them for a second. While Klug and Daniels will definitely own the first step on the ISU O-linemen .... how long will Iowa's undersized DTs be able to battle on the interior against guys who likely own around 60+ pounds on them! The only way to counter it is an active rotation at DT ... however, that can also influence the continuity and chemistry with the front seven ... and that could potentially hurt our run D.

2) It will be really easy for ISU to lure Iowa's DTs into getting too much early penetration ... since the DTs will have to rely so heavily on quickness and technique. That will set ISU up brilliantly for screen passes. This may really be my #1 concern.

3) ARob is a very good RB for ISU and, much like Freddie Russell ... he'll be able to "hide amongst the trees" in the running game. I frankly don't think that it will be an easy chore to shut down ISU's running game ... especially considering the passing threat that they pose.

4) While ISU's WRs may not be as deep as Rhoads wants the group to be ... they easily go 5 deep with VERY capable guys (Darks, Jones, Hamilton, Johnson, and Reynolds) at WR and are very deep with excellent TEs too (Franklin and Catlett, to name but two). While Iowa may be much improved in coverage ... ISU's receiving targets are more than capable of giving Iowa fits.

5) In all frankness (and PSU fans may not believe me), Arnaud may very well be the best QB we'll face all year. Thus, not only does ISU have firepower on O ... but they have a man at the helm who's very capable of brandishing those weapons!

6) Oh yeah ... and the game is at Jack Trice ... not exactly a venue where we've had a ton of luck (even when we're good).

1) Iowa DTs have been undersized for years and Iowa has always had a solid run D.

2) What the heck does a DT have to do with covering a screen? Ballard and Clayborn are very smart DEs, go ahead and run as many screens as you want.

3) Iowa has faced many RBs much better the Robinson, he's nothing to worry about.

4) ISU receivers could pose some match-up issues with out lack of depth at DB. This is a legit concern.

5) AA is a good QB but hasn't shown me he can be good when it counts against Iowa - in the Red Zone.

6) That stadium is not intimidating. Bad luck has contributed more to Iowa losing there than home field advantage. I don't ever recall Iowa (or any team) not being able to call out signals at JT.

So there you have it, one concern and not that big of one. Iowa is the better more talented team and everyone in the nation knows it. We are 4-2 against ISU in the last 6 years and it will soon be 5-2. The jinx is dead people, back to reality.

Iowa 27 - ISU 10

Player of the game: Karl Klug

 

[CyDude16]

1) Iowa DTs have been undersized for years and Iowa has always had a solid run D.

2) What the heck does a DT have to do with covering a screen? Ballard and Clayborn are very smart DEs, go ahead and run as many screens as you want.

3) Iowa has faced many RBs much better the Robinson, he's nothing to worry about.

4) ISU receivers could pose some match-up issues with out lack of depth at DB. This is a legit concern.

5) AA is a good QB but hasn't shown me he can be good when it counts against Iowa - in the Red Zone.

6) That stadium is not intimidating. Bad luck has contributed more to Iowa losing there than home field advantage. I don't ever recall Iowa (or any team) not being able to call out signals at JT.

So there you have it, one concern and not that big of one. Iowa is the better more talented team and everyone in the nation knows it. We are 4-2 against ISU in the last 6 years and it will soon be 5-2. The jinx is dead people, back to reality.

Iowa 27 - ISU 10:biglaugh:

Player of the game: Karl Klug

 

[IowaGuy]

egami-

With regard to your first comment, Ferentz has explicitly stated numerous times that personnel in the secondary is a big reason why Iowa doesn't use extra-DB packages more.

Please find me some links to where KF said that, because I read Hawkeye news every day and have never read any comment of the like. Iowa has been loaded with DBs in the past an still never used the Nickel. Iowa's D is built on one basic premise: Stop the run. You don't do that replacing a monster LB with a skinny DB.

Are you a ISU fan in disguise? You seem to know very little about the Iowa football program.

 

[egami]

Please find me some links to where KF said that, because I read Hawkeye news every day and have never read any comment of the like. Iowa has been loaded with DBs in the past an still never used the Nickel. Iowa's D is built on one basic premise: Stop the run. You don't do that replacing a monster LB with a skinny DB.

This is the way I see it. And while Iowa, from what I watch, doesn't seem to use "nickel" or "dime" DB packages, they will drop a LB into coverage, especially on the flat. Edds is actually pretty respectable in this role from what I've seen. So, Iowa seems to back into the "nickel" package by use of their LBer's when needed.

 

[IowaGuy]

Keep rolling your eyes, it won't change the FACT that Iowa is a far better program than ISU. There is a reason we are ranked #21 in today USA poll while ISU is nowhere to be found and we went to a NYD bowl game last year while ISU stayed home.

Someone posted a thread about teams that think they are better then they really are... kind of ironic coming from an ISU fan. You guys were 2-10 last year and you have people on here acting like ISU could compete for the Big12N title. :biglaugh:

 

[IowaGuy]

This is the way I see it. And while Iowa, from what I watch, doesn't seem to use "nickel" or "dime" DB packages, they will drop a LB into coverage, especially on the flat. Edds is actually pretty respectable in this role from what I've seen. So, Iowa seems to back into the "nickel" package by use of their LBer's when needed.

Exactly. They play a conservative 4-3, there's no reason to play a Nickle.

 

[CyDude16]

Keep rolling your eyes, it won't change the FACT that Iowa is a far better program than ISU. There is a reason we are ranked #21 in today USA poll while ISU is nowhere to be found and we went to a NYD bowl game last year while ISU stayed home.

Someone posted a thread about teams that think they are better then they really are... kind of ironic coming from an ISU fan. You guys were 2-10 last year and you have people on here acting like ISU could compete for the Big12N title. :biglaugh:

1. Buffalo and UCONN went to a NYD's day bowl, feel proud.
--dude you played South Carolina, ISU probably could have beat them, cause you didnt even need a defense to stop them
2. That thread was programs thinking they're bettter then they are, not fans, or you're right wing Hawk fans would top the damn list.
3. Its a rivarly game, you can take your stupid pre-season rankings, it will make our victory even sweeter.
4. Yeah, we were 2-10 and you guys could only put one offensive TD on our defense. Pretty sad.
5. Who knows what this season holds jerkoff, do I think we will compete for the big 12 north title? Certainly not, but if things fall in place, and ISU catches breaks you never know.
6. Its fans like you that make me hate the hawkeyes.
7. For Jack Trice being such a terrible place, what does that say about you guys struggling to win there?
8. Enjoy your first loss on september 12th

 

[IowaGuy]

How about we start a new thread listing reasons ISU should be very concerned about playing Iowa?

1) Iowa has a FAR better o-line than ISU has a d-line. It's going to take the entire front 7 and then some to stop Iowa's running game, and that's when Stanzi will hurt you deep.

2) ISU is learning a new D and this is a early game in the season. Just go ask Bo Pelini how long it takes to incorporate a new D, and he had way better players.

3) ISU has not scored a offensive TD in more than 10 quarters against the Hawks.

4) Iowa's TE Moeaki is healthy.

5) Iowa is a far more talented team and ranked in the top 25 for a reason.

That should be a good start, but you're dillusional ISU fans so I'm sure you won't let it concern you. :wink:

 

[CyDude16]

How about we start a new thread listing reasons ISU should be very concerned about playing Iowa?

1) Iowa has a FAR better o-line than ISU has a d-line. It's going to take the entire front 7 and then some to stop Iowa's running game, and that's when Stanzi will hurt you deep.

2) ISU is learning a new D and this is a early game in the season. Just go ask Bo Pelini how long it takes to incorporate a new D, and he had way better players.

3) ISU has not scored a offensive TD in more than 10 quarters against the Hawks.

4) Iowa's TE Moeaki is healthy.

5) Iowa is a far more talented team and ranked in the top 25 for a reason.

That should be a good start, but you're dillusional ISU fans so I'm sure you won't let it concern you. :wink:

Or how bout you go to one of the many in-state rivals threads about it.... or is that too hard?

 

[Landshark]

I guarantee no ISU player fears Iowa. Until a road team wins this series I'll always pick the home team. Crazy things happen at Trice when we play Iowa. Personally I'm more worried about the Kent State game than the Iowa game.

 

[IowaGuy]

1. Buffalo and UCONN went to a NYD's day bowl, feel proud.
--dude you played South Carolina, ISU probably could have beat them, cause you didnt even need a defense to stop them
2. That thread was programs thinking they're bettter then they are, not fans, or you're right wing Hawk fans would top the damn list.
3. Its a rivarly game, you can take your stupid pre-season rankings, it will make our victory even sweeter.
4. Yeah, we were 2-10 and you guys could only put one offensive TD on our defense. Pretty sad.
5. Who knows what this season holds jerkoff, do I think we will compete for the big 12 north title? Certainly not, but if things fall in place, and ISU catches breaks you never know.
6. Its fans like you that make me hate the hawkeyes.
7. For Jack Trice being such a terrible place, what does that say about you guys struggling to win there?
8. Enjoy your first loss on september 12th

1) Only a ISU fan would try to make it sound like it's nothing to make it to a NYD bowl game. BTW, when was the last time ISU did it? LMAO

2) Iowa finished in the top-25, tell me how we think we are better than we are? It seems like the people who KNOW FOOTBALL agree with us.

3) "Stupid pre-season rankings"? You don't sound jealous and bitter at all.

4) Who won that game, and when was the last time you scored a TD against Iowa? 3 years ago? :biglaugh:

5) Know, we know. In fact, the only people who don't know are ISU fans.

6) Let go of your hate, Luke.

7) I thought I was pretty clear, but I will say it slower for you: b-a-d l-u-c-k. Nobody talks about how hard it is to play at JT, there is a reason for that.

8) I can't wait. I will be sure say "good game!" to the ONE ISU fan hiding in the corner of the bar, if he hasn't left by halftime.