Explaining the Run Game / OL ( A bit long, sorry)

stewart092284

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Regarding the run game and offensive line.

1) I'd say on average, 70-80% or higher of our running plays occur between the tackles. Well, as a defensive line coach, DC, etc, that takes the guess work out. When you add that with the fact that 95% of the time, the RB gets the back from a single back set since the TE / H is usually flex up nearer to the line of scrimmage and the QB run game is a minimal part of the offense - again, it makes it simple for opposing defenses. Additionally, when was the last time Iowa State ran a draw? A shovel pass? Counter? We run split zone, some G scheme concepts and lead, occasionally outside / stretch but not a lot else. All of that makes our run game relatively generic and easy to prepare for.

Well, when you don't have 5 NFL offensive linemen, 3 or maybe even more than possibly one - a generic rushing attack + a injured most effective running back + a little bit of predictability in play calling on when we run and when we throw... I mean....

Frankly, I'd be more amazed if we were having great success running the ball. Why did we run the ball better in the second half?

QB Run game - because no one accounted for Rocco.
Toss play to Sama for the 27 yard TD. One of the runs by Rocco was an option.

I will give you 5 Anthony Munoz's. Or 5 Larry Allen's. And you give me four average to slightly above average NFL Defensive linemen, and another 2-3 average to above average NFL linebackers and one Safety. And you ain't running the ball for crap if they know the where, the who and the when.

Well, for Iowa State, now take that and put 5 average offensive linemen, to maybe a couple above average. And it gets even harder.


The most frustrating thing for me watching it is that we only need 2 damn run plays. One side and one outside. Toss and gap. Power and option. I don't care which. But if you can run outside it prevents the safeties from slamming down unaccounted for inbetween the tackles which is what Cincy did to Hansen in the first half. Cause they knew we weren't running outside. And it prevents your DE or 4 technique for slamming down hard inside because now they have a exterior threat.

Hell, run a bubble screen. Because again, now that safety can't just fly down field. He's got to respect the perimeter. Right now, they don't and it makes running between the tackles harder.

Right now, we're trying to block 7-8 with 5-6. Its not a genius thing to realize that doesn't work or becomes hard.

No one expects Rocco to keep it, so they're not going to waste a defender on him.
No one expects us to hit outside, so their LB's and safeties can crowd the box. Did you see how damn close Cincy's LB's were stacked behind their DL? Those dudes gave zero F's about an outside run threat.

And all of that makes it harder for an OL because as an OL, its about your eyes. You've got the DL as the obvious threat, duh, but then you want to see OK, I climb to him or we scoop here or combo there, etc... all that gets muddied when you allow the defense to muddy the box. And everything happens so fast. An average football play takes 3-4 seconds as most people know.

For an offensive or defensive linemen, you either win or lose your battle in roughly 0.5 to 1.5 seconds in the run game. So if you aren't sure on the look on what you see, or the box is muddied where maybe you step wrong because you're expecting A but get B... you are effed. And its either a sack, a TFL, or a holding penalty or a LB says hello to the running back at the LOS.


As good as Noel and Higgins are, they're not scary - like Tyreek Hill is scary. Or Randy moss, was scary or Justin Jefferson etc. They are very good receivers, don't get me wrong. But they're not going to scare you until giving a light box. They'll win a one on one matchup, sure, but they're not just taking the top off the defense. Nor are we a super aggressive down field passing team of like 15-20 yards plus. So again, now the safeties don't have to open and
bail which allows them to be factors against the run game.


Earlier in the season the running game was more diverse. not crazy so, but more diverse. And we saw a little of that in the second half. A little QB run game. A toss play. An option play. More bootleg which again forces the safety and leverage defenders to stay wide... beacause 90% of the time, on an inside run play, you don't account for them. You're counting on them to make sure the QB doesn't have the ball or defend the flat etc. Well, if you don't make them defend the flat or the QB run game guess what that DC is going to do?

"Get your ass involved, its not a dang spectator sport" and now you have a free hat teeing off on Sama, Jackson and Hansen And everyone says man, the offensive line sucks.

In reality, its no, the offensive line is not asked to account for that X defender, and that X defender is the one fitting i because he doesn't feel threatened on the perimeter or on the second level.


Is the offensive line playing at peak performance? Nope. Not even a little bit.

However, while its easy to say what the hell is wrong with the offensive line, its really not entirely on the offensive line. Because when we do threaten the flats and widden out the defense, we end up rushing for 143 yards after rushing for12 yards I think in the first half. Sure the fake punt blah blah... that's what a good running game is though. You hit them where they aren't and where they aren't expecting you. Unless you have 5 earth movers and then a prime Gronk as a blocking TE - you ain't running the ball effectively as currently designed. And its not because the OL is trash.


That's why I want Mouse to burn the 1st half tape and watch the second half. Because weto got away from running head first into a brick wall and wouldn't you know, the whole offense worked a lot better.


Because while we are not going to be an elite rush offense, or just maul people all over the field, we are good enough to run effectively. 4, 4.5 yards a carry. Elite? No. But we showed that in the second half, and against other teams.

We just need to keep incorporating the boot, a bubble, a jet / toss / option , QB run to keep those leverage defenders and safeties honest. And that opens everything else up. Look at the Detriot Lions - Gibbs and Montgomery. A modern version of Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside, though they can both run both places but they are used essentially mostly as that. The Ravens with Henry and Jackson, etc... one's the hammer, the other's the rabbit. Triple option teams want to run dive and we want to be physical and run ahead. But option teams run pitch and jet and etc to force defenders to widden and leverage themselves out of being able to stop dive. We are simply not doing that to a good enough degree right now.

Right now, we are trying to be the hammer. We need to find a way to make the defense respect the threat of a rabbit and then we can go back to being the hamer.
 
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Kettes

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First off, great write-up and discussion! Well done!

Second, you are correct about the OL being "average." I can't remember the last game where the OL consistently move the scrimmage line on most plays; hold is about the best we can hope for.

Third, DCs on our two losses (and Cincy, for that matter), have loaded the box and doubled Noel and Higgins. How do you beat that? Well, other receivers have to step up, for one. And more "punishing" plays (like draws) are needed to punish loading the box. Running Rocco will eventually hurt him (and thus, us).
 

tysforcy

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We don't have a great OL, but they aren't terrible. They really struggle blocking the 2nd level due to a combination of 1. opposing teams are blitzing more frequently 2. scheme/personnel issues. Noel/Higgins are getting breaks every 2-4 plays, and without charting it, I would guess we've ran the ball 95% of the time when those 2 are out. Defenses can load the box, send safeties, and create havoc purely based on formation and personnel. This creates 2nd/3rd and long situations, and the defense can sit in a zone and force our offense to make a play. We have to be more willing to trust the depth in the WR room in those situations.
 

stewart092284

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Sorry for the length but was just trying to provide details and examples rather than saying

"Its not as simple as the offensive line isn't blocking well." Which is basically what it comes down to.
We're allowing opposing defenses to guess correctly on when, where and who is the running the ball, which makes it very hard to run or pass block. When we got more diverse with that, the offense was much better in the second half. Does the OL need to block better? Yes. But its not entirely a unit that is being helped out much right now.

I guess that's the cliff notes, and the original is the more detailed
 

stewart092284

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We don't have a great OL, but they aren't terrible. They really struggle blocking the 2nd level due to a combination of 1. opposing teams are blitzing more frequently 2. scheme/personnel issues. Noel/Higgins are getting breaks every 2-4 plays, and without charting it, I would guess we've ran the ball 95% of the time when those 2 are out. Defenses can load the box, send safeties, and create havoc purely based on formation and personnel. This creates 2nd/3rd and long situations, and the defense can sit in a zone and force our offense to make a play. We have to be more willing to trust the depth in the WR room in those situations.
This but also, I'd run more toss with Sama. Let him get on the perimeter and then decide whether or not to hit it inside or bounce it. It makes it an easier read for him as well. Let Hansen be the hammer, and let Sama be the hare.

Or what do the Lions call it? Knuckles and Sonic with Gibbs and Montgomery?
 
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swiacy

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Regarding the run game and offensive line.

1) I'd say on average, 70-80% or higher of our running plays occur between the tackles. Well, as a defensive line coach, DC, etc, that takes the guess work out. When you add that with the fact that 95% of the time, the RB gets the back from a single back set since the TE / H is usually flex up nearer to the line of scrimmage and the QB run game is a minimal part of the offense - again, it makes it simple for opposing defenses. Additionally, when was the last time Iowa State ran a draw? A shovel pass? Counter? We run split zone, some G scheme concepts and lead, occasionally outside / stretch but not a lot else. All of that makes our run game relatively generic and easy to prepare for.

Well, when you don't have 5 NFL offensive linemen, 3 or maybe even more than possibly one - a generic rushing attack + a injured most effective running back + a little bit of predictability in play calling on when we run and when we throw... I mean....

Frankly, I'd be more amazed if we were having great success running the ball. Why did we run the ball better in the second half?

QB Run game - because no one accounted for Rocco.
Toss play to Sama for the 27 yard TD. One of the runs by Rocco was an option.

I will give you 5 Anthony Munoz's. Or 5 Larry Allen's. And you give me four average to slightly above average NFL Defensive linemen, and another 2-3 average to above average NFL linebackers and one Safety. And you ain't running the ball for crap if they know the where, the who and the when.

Well, for Iowa State, now take that and put 5 average offensive linemen, to maybe a couple above average. And it gets even harder.


The most frustrating thing for me watching it is that we only need 2 damn run plays. One side and one outside. Toss and gap. Power and option. I don't care which. But if you can run outside it prevents the safeties from slamming down unaccounted for inbetween the tackles which is what Cincy did to Hansen in the first half. Cause they knew we weren't running outside. And it prevents your DE or 4 technique for slamming down hard inside because now they have a exterior threat.

Hell, run a bubble screen. Because again, now that safety can't just fly down field. He's got to respect the perimeter. Right now, they don't and it makes running between the tackles harder.

Right now, we're trying to block 7-8 with 5-6. Its not a genius thing to realize that doesn't work or becomes hard.

No one expects Rocco to keep it, so they're not going to waste a defender on him.
No one expects us to hit outside, so their LB's and safeties can crowd the box. Did you see how damn close Cincy's LB's were stacked behind their DL? Those dudes gave zero F's about an outside run threat.

And all of that makes it harder for an OL because as an OL, its about your eyes. You've got the DL as the obvious threat, duh, but then you want to see OK, I climb to him or we scoop here or combo there, etc... all that gets muddied when you allow the defense to muddy the box. And everything happens so fast. An average football play takes 3-4 seconds as most people know.

For an offensive or defensive linemen, you either win or lose your battle in roughly 0.5 to 1.5 seconds in the run game. So if you aren't sure on the look on what you see, or the box is muddied where maybe you step wrong because you're expecting A but get B... you are effed. And its either a sack, a TFL, or a holding penalty or a LB says hello to the running back at the LOS.


As good as Noel and Higgins are, they're not scary - like Tyreek Hill is scary. Or Randy moss, was scary or Justin Jefferson etc. They are very good receivers, don't get me wrong. But they're not going to scare you until giving a light box. They'll win a one on one matchup, sure, but they're not just taking the top off the defense. Nor are we a super aggressive down field passing team of like 15-20 yards plus. So again, now the safeties don't have to open and
bail which allows them to be factors against the run game.


Earlier in the season the running game was more diverse. not crazy so, but more diverse. And we saw a little of that in the second half. A little QB run game. A toss play. An option play. More bootleg which again forces the safety and leverage defenders to stay wide... beacause 90% of the time, on an inside run play, you don't account for them. You're counting on them to make sure the QB doesn't have the ball or defend the flat etc. Well, if you don't make them defend the flat or the QB run game guess what that DC is going to do?

"Get your ass involved, its not a dang spectator sport" and now you have a free hat teeing off on Sama, Jackson and Sama. And everyone says man, the offensive line sucks.

In reality, its no, the offensive line is not asked to account for that X defender, and that X defender is the one fitting i because he doesn't feel threatened on the perimeter or on the second level.


Is the offensive line playing at peak performance? Nope. Not even a little bit.

However, while its easy to say what the hell is wrong with the offensive line, its really not entirely on the offensive line. Because when we do threaten the flats and widden out the defense, we end up rushing for 143 yards after rushing for12 yards I think in the first half. Sure the fake punt blah blah... that's what a good running game is though. You hit them where they aren't and where they aren't expecting you. Unless you have 5 earth movers and then a prime Gronk as a blocking TE - you ain't running the ball effectively as currently designed. And its not because the OL is trash.


That's why I want Mouse to burn the 1st half tape and watch the second half. Because weto got away from running head first into a brick wall and wouldn't you know, the whole offense worked a lot better.


Because while we are not going to be an elite rush offense, or just maul people all over the field, we are good enough to run effectively. 4, 4.5 yards a carry. Elite? No. But we showed that in the second half, and against other teams.

We just need to keep incorporating the boot, a bubble, a jet / toss / option , QB run to keep those leverage defenders and safeties honest. And that opens everything else up. Look at the Detriot Lions - Gibbs and Montgomery. A modern version of Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside, though they can both run both places but they are used essentially mostly as that. The Ravens with Henry and Jackson, etc... one's the hammer, the other's the rabbit. Triple option teams want to run dive and we want to be physical and run ahead. But option times run pitch and jet and etc to force defenders to widden and leverage themselves out of being able to stop dive. We are simply not doing that to a good enough degree right now.

Right now, we are trying to be the hammer. We need to find a way to make the defense respect the threat of a rabbit and then we can go back to being the hamer.
I played OL in college & when D’s stacked the box, a QB fake hand off dive to the right by the RB and then a quick pass to the TE to the left over the LB’s worked every time. Hanson has had games where he has had success running between the lines and ISU has led the B12 at times this year in offense so the OL is not the problem. Game time play calling decisions is not CMC’s strong suit, he is a defensive minded coach. That’s why after halftime our offensive production usually improves.
 

stewart092284

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I played OL in college & when D’s stacked the box, a QB fake hand off dive to the right by the RB and then a quick pass to the TE to the left over the LB’s worked every time. Hanson has had games where he has had success running between the lines and ISU has led the B12 at times this year in offense so the OL is not the problem. Game time play calling decisions is not CMC’s strong suit, he is a defensive minded coach. That’s why after halftime our offensive production usually improves.
Agreed... I was more a DL coach and player but I understand how hard it was for those big guys on the other side.

Especially at this point in the season where everyone has film. And everyone's banged up.

I'd love to see more toss or those little pop passes you described. We don't need flea flicker double reverse bootleg spidy X Y bananna crap.

We just need a little bit more I'll run outside when you think inside and vice versea.
 

Letterkenny

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This but also, I'd run more toss with Sama. Let him get on the perimeter and then decide whether or not to hit it inside or bounce it. It makes it an easier read for him as well. Let Hansen be the hammer, and let Sama be the hare.

Or what do the Lions call it? Knuckles and Sonic with Gibbs and Montgomery?
I don't know, it feels like every attempt to run Sama outside ends with him having to break 2-3 tackles just to fight for a 1 yard loss. I think our OL run blocking sucks, and our WR blocking is even worse. We run almost no quick WR screens anymore because of it.
 
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Cyclonepride

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I think it is a combination of things. Obviously it starts with the offensive line, but I agree that we need to be more creative, including bubble screens as you mentioned, but also need to be more unpredictable. It feels like we run mostly on first down, or in short yardage situations.

I really think we need to pass to set up the run. Make other teams fear the pass first and foremost, and when they're sitting back to protect that, throw in runs here and there. Maybe 60% pass, 40% run. Maybe go with more tempo early. Nothing more frustrating than watching the offense struggle for a couple quarters and then go tempo and immediately start moving the ball. Maybe 4-5 designed runs for Rocco too.

Most of that goes against the ball control mindset that Campbell has, but I think you establish the offensive rhythm first and foremost, and then start to grind out the clock once you have control.
 
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Prone2Clone

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Cliff notes version please.
70-80% or higher of our running plays occur between the tackles. Well, as a defensive line coach, DC, etc, that takes the guess work out. When you add that with the fact that 95% of the time, the RB gets the ball from a single back set since the TE / H is usually flex up nearer to the line of scrimmage and the QB run game is a minimal part of the offense - again, it makes it simple for opposing defenses.
 

Dirtguy4CY

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I don't know, it feels like every attempt to run Sama outside ends with him having to break 2-3 tackles just to fight for a 1 yard loss. I think our OL run blocking sucks, and our WR blocking is even worse. We run almost no quick WR screens anymore because of it.
Sama also needs to put his foot in the ground sometimes and get up field.
 

iowastatefan1929

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Remember when Breece would get the ball running off the tackle and then cut it outside for big gains in November games. I think they have a plan for what plays they will run in each month. Bruns mentioned after KU game new things were being introduced. I personally would like to see way more bootleg action, seems to really work.
 
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SolarGarlic

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I think it is a combination of things. Obviously it starts with the offensive line, but I agree that we need to be more creative, including bubble screens as you mentioned, but also need to be more unpredictable. It feels like we run mostly on first down, or in short yardage situations.

I really think we need to pass to set up the run. Make other teams fear the pass first and foremost, and when they're sitting back to protect that, throw in runs here and there. Maybe 60% pass, 40% run. Maybe go with more tempo early. Nothing more frustrating than watching the offense struggle for a couple quarters and then go tempo and immediately start moving the ball. Maybe 4-5 designed runs for Rocco too.

Most of that goes against the ball control mindset that Campbell has, but I think you establish the offensive rhythm first and foremost, and then start to grind out the clock once you have control.
We went tempo on our first drive. On our second play, Barrett dropped back in pass protection as we handed it to Hansen to run behind him lol
 
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ghyland7

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Longer post in a different thread.

Against Cincinnati we ran on a hair over 2/3 of all first down plays for an average of less than 2 yards per carry.

Running the ball is how we win games. Being predictable and running inside zone into numbers every first down is not how we win games.
 

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