Evolution of ISU Offense

cyclone1209

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2010
3,630
2,126
113
Denver
Hey all. If anyone has down time in January (and we know that you do), I encourage a great podcast that's about an hour from Levi from WRNL, Marchie Murdock, and JD Waggoner. I love the pods on this site with Williams, Blum, and J Stanz. But these guys are great every now and then.

They brought up some thoughtful critiques of the ISU offense last year. I for one think Manning had a difficult job last season. When you have the best running back in CFB it is tempting to go so vanilla, and just get into a groove of handoffs with Breece. And with Breece getting like 20 td's and over 1,400 yards, the running game was a success this year in many ways.
But what these guys did on the pod was in terms of things they saw this year, things we need to clean up to be less predictable:

- How many times did we move Breece out to the slot at WR, and then motion him back to the middle in the backfield, and then it's a hand off to him. (this move worked for no gain many times this season, cough Iowa game.). Teams know we do this now.
- Some of the TE motions are the same every time. Also they criticize that Jared Rus, while a capable pass catcher, should not be going out to the flat a ton because he doesn't have the speed to pick up 20 on a pass. Would it be better on some plays with him out, and then an extra receiver as a downfield threat? I'd say yes.
- All of the underneath curls to Charlie, Chase, and Xavier (8-12 yards downfield). This to me was working really well in the first half the year and it seemed Brock was competing 90% of these types of passes. But didn't it seem by the Clemson game they knew what we were doing? They completely knew all our passes would be within 15 yds of line of scrimmage. And they clogged the middle with their safeties to shut us down. Other teams did this too like TTech, Baylor, and Iowa.
- If this offense wants to take a evolutionary step forward (and it needs to), the downfield passing attack has to be different, more of a threat, and a part of the playcall sheet.
Xavier Hutchinson is clearly an all big 12 guy, and future nfl guy. He needs to be thrown a deep ball once a game. I bet he comes up with some of them for td's or chunk gains.
- Jaylin Noel next year after several short crossing routes underneath needs to have a double move in the repertoire where he shoots up field for a long route

Here's where I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt to Tom last year. Joe Scates was a headcase who was always in the doghouse, perhaps not a great teammate, and wildly inconsistent. Tarique Milton was so hurt often his last two years and ineffective. Maybe, not having a true WR 2 was the reason for a weak downfield pass game.

What these guys highlight is that we had a legitimate reason to be conservative last year with Breece and the run game, and a really above average D. But next year and beyond we absolutely cannot play like this anymore. The three TE sets, slow motion stuff, and predictable play calling will send our ass directly to 6-6 or worse next year. If we want 7-5 or better we have got to be more unpredictable on offense. A good starting point for this would be Iowa next year. No more treating the non conference like a glorified pre season.

Especially when we look at the D next year I don't think we take a step back... Anthony Johnson, Will M, and Orien Vance coming back is massive. Those are three potential first team big 12 guys right there.

I look at the league and think KState, Kansas, TCU, TTU, and Baylor will all be better than this past year (or equally as good). So the question begs what does our offense do to take a step forward.

Manning: you now have some quality skill guys like Dekkers at QB, Silas and Brock at RB, and then Hutchinson, Noel, Essex and Greg Gains at WR (and shaw), what are we going to do to get more explosive plays in the pass game? Time to get creative.
 

CyLyte2

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2020
1,671
2,159
113
46
Hey all. If anyone has down time in January (and we know that you do), I encourage a great podcast that's about an hour from Levi from WRNL, Marchie Murdock, and JD Waggoner. I love the pods on this site with Williams, Blum, and J Stanz. But these guys are great every now and then.

They brought up some thoughtful critiques of the ISU offense last year. I for one think Manning had a difficult job last season. When you have the best running back in CFB it is tempting to go so vanilla, and just get into a groove of handoffs with Breece. And with Breece getting like 20 td's and over 1,400 yards, the running game was a success this year in many ways.
But what these guys did on the pod was in terms of things they saw this year, things we need to clean up to be less predictable:

- How many times did we move Breece out to the slot at WR, and then motion him back to the middle in the backfield, and then it's a hand off to him. (this move worked for no gain many times this season, cough Iowa game.). Teams know we do this now.
- Some of the TE motions are the same every time. Also they criticize that Jared Rus, while a capable pass catcher, should not be going out to the flat a ton because he doesn't have the speed to pick up 20 on a pass. Would it be better on some plays with him out, and then an extra receiver as a downfield threat? I'd say yes.
- All of the underneath curls to Charlie, Chase, and Xavier (8-12 yards downfield). This to me was working really well in the first half the year and it seemed Brock was competing 90% of these types of passes. But didn't it seem by the Clemson game they knew what we were doing? They completely knew all our passes would be within 15 yds of line of scrimmage. And they clogged the middle with their safeties to shut us down. Other teams did this too like TTech, Baylor, and Iowa.
- If this offense wants to take a evolutionary step forward (and it needs to), the downfield passing attack has to be different, more of a threat, and a part of the playcall sheet.
Xavier Hutchinson is clearly an all big 12 guy, and future nfl guy. He needs to be thrown a deep ball once a game. I bet he comes up with some of them for td's or chunk gains.
- Jaylin Noel next year after several short crossing routes underneath needs to have a double move in the repertoire where he shoots up field for a long route

Here's where I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt to Tom last year. Joe Scates was a headcase who was always in the doghouse, perhaps not a great teammate, and wildly inconsistent. Tarique Milton was so hurt often his last two years and ineffective. Maybe, not having a true WR 2 was the reason for a weak downfield pass game.

What these guys highlight is that we had a legitimate reason to be conservative last year with Breece and the run game, and a really above average D. But next year and beyond we absolutely cannot play like this anymore. The three TE sets, slow motion stuff, and predictable play calling will send our ass directly to 6-6 or worse next year. If we want 7-5 or better we have got to be more unpredictable on offense. A good starting point for this would be Iowa next year. No more treating the non conference like a glorified pre season.

Especially when we look at the D next year I don't think we take a step back... Anthony Johnson, Will M, and Orien Vance coming back is massive. Those are three potential first team big 12 guys right there.

I look at the league and think KState, Kansas, TCU, TTU, and Baylor will all be better than this past year (or equally as good). So the question begs what does our offense do to take a step forward.

Manning: you now have some quality skill guys like Dekkers at QB, Silas and Brock at RB, and then Hutchinson, Noel, Essex and Greg Gains at WR (and shaw), what are we going to do to get more explosive plays in the pass game? Time to get creative.
Lol
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
50,218
47,075
113
It doesn't need to be creative or complicated--need to be better up front to establish one thing to feed the other thing.

It looks like Dekkers throws a ball far but at the same time he'll need to complete the short routes on top of a run game to set up the deep stuff.

For some reason I feel like next year's team might be better at putting things together. Again though it will probably look like a governor was put on the team on all sides.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cyclone1209

khardbored

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2012
9,775
7,086
113
Middle of the Midwest
No more treating the non conference like a glorified pre season.

200.gif
 

cyclone1209

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2010
3,630
2,126
113
Denver
It doesn't need to be creative or complicated--need to be better up front to establish one thing to feed the other thing.

It looks like Dekkers throws a ball far but at the same time he'll need to complete the short routes on top of a run game to set up the deep stuff.

For some reason I feel like next year's team might be better at putting things together. Again though it will probably look like a governor was put on the team on all sides.
Yes, and more throws down the field will allow Jirehl and Silas to get easier yards. Has to be more aggressive in my opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CascadeClone

Aclone

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2007
24,543
16,611
113
Des Moines, Ia.
Hey all. If anyone has down time in January (and we know that you do), I encourage a great podcast that's about an hour from Levi from WRNL, Marchie Murdock, and JD Waggoner. I love the pods on this site with Williams, Blum, and J Stanz. But these guys are great every now and then.

They brought up some thoughtful critiques of the ISU offense last year. I for one think Manning had a difficult job last season. When you have the best running back in CFB it is tempting to go so vanilla, and just get into a groove of handoffs with Breece. And with Breece getting like 20 td's and over 1,400 yards, the running game was a success this year in many ways.
But what these guys did on the pod was in terms of things they saw this year, things we need to clean up to be less predictable:

- How many times did we move Breece out to the slot at WR, and then motion him back to the middle in the backfield, and then it's a hand off to him. (this move worked for no gain many times this season, cough Iowa game.). Teams know we do this now.
- Some of the TE motions are the same every time. Also they criticize that Jared Rus, while a capable pass catcher, should not be going out to the flat a ton because he doesn't have the speed to pick up 20 on a pass. Would it be better on some plays with him out, and then an extra receiver as a downfield threat? I'd say yes.
- All of the underneath curls to Charlie, Chase, and Xavier (8-12 yards downfield). This to me was working really well in the first half the year and it seemed Brock was competing 90% of these types of passes. But didn't it seem by the Clemson game they knew what we were doing? They completely knew all our passes would be within 15 yds of line of scrimmage. And they clogged the middle with their safeties to shut us down. Other teams did this too like TTech, Baylor, and Iowa.
- If this offense wants to take a evolutionary step forward (and it needs to), the downfield passing attack has to be different, more of a threat, and a part of the playcall sheet.
Xavier Hutchinson is clearly an all big 12 guy, and future nfl guy. He needs to be thrown a deep ball once a game. I bet he comes up with some of them for td's or chunk gains.
- Jaylin Noel next year after several short crossing routes underneath needs to have a double move in the repertoire where he shoots up field for a long route

Here's where I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt to Tom last year. Joe Scates was a headcase who was always in the doghouse, perhaps not a great teammate, and wildly inconsistent. Tarique Milton was so hurt often his last two years and ineffective. Maybe, not having a true WR 2 was the reason for a weak downfield pass game.

What these guys highlight is that we had a legitimate reason to be conservative last year with Breece and the run game, and a really above average D. But next year and beyond we absolutely cannot play like this anymore. The three TE sets, slow motion stuff, and predictable play calling will send our ass directly to 6-6 or worse next year. If we want 7-5 or better we have got to be more unpredictable on offense. A good starting point for this would be Iowa next year. No more treating the non conference like a glorified pre season.

Especially when we look at the D next year I don't think we take a step back... Anthony Johnson, Will M, and Orien Vance coming back is massive. Those are three potential first team big 12 guys right there.

I look at the league and think KState, Kansas, TCU, TTU, and Baylor will all be better than this past year (or equally as good). So the question begs what does our offense do to take a step forward.

Manning: you now have some quality skill guys like Dekkers at QB, Silas and Brock at RB, and then Hutchinson, Noel, Essex and Greg Gains at WR (and shaw), what are we going to do to get more explosive plays in the pass game? Time to get creative.
I could manage to listen to this. Probably. If that idiot Levi manages to keep his mouth to a minimum.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: cyclone1209

dualthreat

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2008
11,013
3,881
113
You’re doing it wrong. You cant give Tom Manning any breaks or credit. Even though we’ve had a top 2-3 offense in the big 12 each of the past 3 years. You know, he gotta get fired.
Jokes aside, our offense has been very potent but fell just short a few too many times.
I think our offense would have been better with a true, dominant pass protector at LT and a wide receiver with the ability to take the top off a defense. Of course, 90% of teams would say the same thing. We did well with what we had.
Really just a hair away from another 9 win season, but couldn’t get it done.
 

cyclone1209

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2010
3,630
2,126
113
Denver
You’re doing it wrong. You cant give Tom Manning any breaks or credit. Even though we’ve had a top 2-3 offense in the big 12 each of the past 3 years. You know, he gotta get fired.
Jokes aside, our offense has been very potent but fell just short a few too many times.
I think our offense would have been better with a true, dominant pass protector at LT and a wide receiver with the ability to take the top off a defense. Of course, 90% of teams would say the same thing. We did well with what we had.
Really just a hair away from another 9 win season, but couldn’t get it done.
Agree with this. The offense to me let us down against TTU, Baylor, and Iowa.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hoosman

isucy86

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2006
7,869
6,451
113
Dubuque
I expect Cyclone fans will automatically see a very different offense in 2022 for a few reasons:
  • Dekkers is a different QB than Purdy. I would expect to see many more RPO QB runs out of Dekkers and also more deep passes and 15 to 20 yard slants down the middle.
  • No Kolar & Allen. That could naturally mean fewer 2 TE sets and more 3 WR sets.
  • I would be surprised if we have 1 dominant RB. Do a couple backs split carries? Do we have a 3rd down back? Brock has shown to be a solid pass protector. That might be important if we throw deep more. Or does a guy like Sanders play on 3rd down as a way of getting him the ball in space?
Not saying our offense will be better than 2021, but I am excited to see potential for a bigger play passing game.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CYCLNST8

LarryISU

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2013
2,055
2,847
113
Omaha
I can't imagine that our QB next year will be as accurate as Purdy. And our backs will be different than how Breece ran and caught. So to me it seems we can be as good or better with an improved O-Line play and better play calling. As some have said, we are obviously predictable and that has to change. So many of our plays this year were blown up because the opponent knew from watching tape what we were doing.
 

norcalcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2010
2,158
1,793
113
I cannot argue that offensive stats have been pretty decent the past couple of years. Manning must be doing a decent job because he was up for the Broyles award a couple of years ago. Campbell isn't dumb and I don't think he has a blind spot toward Manning. Predictable offenses aren't a bad thing if they can produce predictable results. A frequent challenge I see is that their offense habitually plays behind the chains. I would be interested in the median yards gained on first down for the season. Based on the team's very low rated third down conversion rate in 2021 (I believe they were something like 95th nationally), I am guessing it isn't great. It seems like Purdy to Kolar produced a lot of "bail out" first downs. It was amazing how many clutch catches those two connected on, but there are only so many of those per game. Any offense will look better when it is playing more consistently from 2nd and 6, 3rd and 3 etc. Better push up front would help a lot.
 

CyLyte2

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2020
1,671
2,159
113
46
Now there's an insightful response. Or should I say inciteful?
Posts like the first are complete nonsense from someone who has no idea why anything happening on the field is happening. So yes, it’s lol funny.
 

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
11,144
17,025
113
I expect Cyclone fans will automatically see a very different offense in 2022 for a few reasons:
  • Dekkers is a different QB than Purdy. I would expect to see many more RPO QB runs out of Dekkers and also more deep passes and 15 to 20 yard slants down the middle.
  • No Kolar & Allen. That could naturally mean fewer 2 TE sets and more 3 WR sets.
  • I would be surprised if we have 1 dominant RB. Do a couple backs split carries? Do we have a 3rd down back? Brock has shown to be a solid pass protector. That might be important if we throw deep more. Or does a guy like Sanders play on 3rd down as a way of getting him the ball in space?
Not saying our offense will be better than 2021, but I am excited to see potential for a bigger play passing game.
Might see some more traditional read option to get Dekkers more running opportunities, but I don’t think ISU has run an RPO that was designed as a QB run. It is almost a Pass or handoff. Purdy was an awesome RPO QB, but they didn’t use it a ton.

I think the only sure bet is Brock in sure passing situations, but we will see. He was good picking up blitzes and catching the ball. The rest of the snaps I think we will see all three guys until/unless someone really grabs the role.
 

dualthreat

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2008
11,013
3,881
113
Might see some more traditional read option to get Dekkers more running opportunities, but I don’t think ISU has run an RPO that was designed as a QB run. It is almost a Pass or handoff. Purdy was an awesome RPO QB, but they didn’t use it a ton.

I think the only sure bet is Brock in sure passing situations, but we will see. He was good picking up blitzes and catching the ball. The rest of the snaps I think we will see all three guys until/unless someone really grabs the role.
And we can all be grateful we got a full 4 years out of Brock purdy because of it!
Running QBs are broken QBs. They’ll get injured at some point guaranteed
 
  • Winner
Reactions: bozclone

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
11,144
17,025
113
And we can all be grateful we got a full 4 years out of Brock purdy because of it!
Running QBs are broken QBs. They’ll get injured at some point guaranteed
Again, RPO is not a QB run. RPO is pull and pass or give. Purdy was great at making that read. If you wanted to preserve your QB you run RPO.
 

Latest posts

Help Support Us

Become a patron