Cryptocurrency

melt

Active Member
Apr 5, 2006
290
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Chicago, IL
How does one pay for their electricity bill using crypto?
You don't directly. An intermediary converts it to dollars before it's sent to the utility company. Nearly everything I have ever seen where you pay in bitcoin, or whatever crypto you want, is not actually accepting crypto, it's getting exchanged into dollars first.

When Tesla was actually accepting BTC, you had like 30 minutes to complete your transaction because the price fluctuated so much they couldn't trust it to still be the same price in dollars by the time they actually got their money. Truly the currency of the future.
 

BuschLight

Member
Jul 24, 2022
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You don't directly. An intermediary converts it to dollars before it's sent to the utility company. Nearly everything I have ever seen where you pay in bitcoin, or whatever crypto you want, is not actually accepting crypto, it's getting exchanged into dollars first.

When Tesla was actually accepting BTC, you had like 30 minutes to complete your transaction because the price fluctuated so much they couldn't trust it to still be the same price in dollars by the time they actually got their money. Truly the currency of the future.
Yeah, I wondered how buying a $60,000 car with BTC worked when it can drop several hundreds of dollars in a matter of 15 minutes.
 

JustAnotherTimeline

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2021
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You don't directly. An intermediary converts it to dollars before it's sent to the utility company. Nearly everything I have ever seen where you pay in bitcoin, or whatever crypto you want, is not actually accepting crypto, it's getting exchanged into dollars first.

When Tesla was actually accepting BTC, you had like 30 minutes to complete your transaction because the price fluctuated so much they couldn't trust it to still be the same price in dollars by the time they actually got their money. Truly the currency of the future.

It will always be that way because USD is the common unit of account. I doubt that will ever change. Conversion will always take place either during the transaction or by the merchant right after. Not sure why this matters. From my perspective, I am spending my crypto. It makes no difference to me whether the merchant receives USD or crypto.
 

nocsious3

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2013
877
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What criteria does it not meet to be called money?
We had this discussion. It's fiat just like you correctly pointed out with regard to the dollar. The issuing authority, or lack thereof, doesn't change the fact that it's not asset backed.

It's not even a good substitute for money, when compared to the dollar, which itself is a currency.
 

Cyrealist

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2013
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The Turkish Lira has an inflation rate of 80% YOY. Does money lose almost all of it's purchasing power in a twelve month period?
Even in that extreme example, the currency has lost "only" 45% of it's purchasing power. Thar nowhere near Bitcoins 400% change in the other direction. And no one is going to hold the Lira up as an example of a good currency. Nobody will use it that doesn't have to.
 

JustAnotherTimeline

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2021
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Even in that extreme example, the currency has lost "only" 45% of it's purchasing power. Thar nowhere near Bitcoins 400% change in the other direction. And no one is going to hold the Lira up as an example of a good currency. Nobody will use it that doesn't have to.

Not to be nit picky, but I have merely been arguing that Bitcoin IS money. Whether you think it is GOOD money is up for debate and for you to decide.
 

agrabes

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2006
1,653
470
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It's nice to debate cryptocurrency stuff rather than realignment stuff for a change :)

A few thoughts - I don't think comparing blockchain to ARPANET is a good comparison. ARPANET and other early internet projects were systems developed by military/government/academic researchers to improve their ability to communicate and send electronic data and they began immediately using them to improve their own work processes. For a long time, early internet systems were quiet and utilitarian and just got things done. Eventually, someone realized there was a wider use case, technology improved, and by the mid-90s the internet was in the mainstream.

Contrast that to blockchain technology - "Satoshi Nakamoto" has a belief that the global monetary system is a scam and develops the blockchain and Bitcoin as a way to build digital native currency outside government control. Rather than solving a practical problem of day to day work or life, he is attempting to overthrow one of the foundational systems of life in the world today because he and a small community of others believe that they have found a better way. Because of the nature of what they are trying to do, they can't just implement it at a small scale and let it solve small problems until it gradually becomes popular and (if their theories are correct) replaces the existing monetary system due to its superiority. So, rather than simply taking the technology and using it where it makes sense and having it gradually gain acceptance organically over time like the Internet, we see crypto enthusiasts looking to shoehorn their technology in places where it doesn't make sense and is generally inferior to existing products. If we take it at face value and assume good intentions, they are looking to speed up the day that their products and technology will gain critical mass to improve life for people around the world.

The key difference: We're not seeing people in traditional businesses gradually integrate blockchain technology as they find it outperforms traditional technology. We're seeing enthusiasts use it and advocate it, we're seeing grifters abuse it, we're seeing some mainstream companies (gaming for example) hyping it up against the advice of their own employees in order to pump their stock prices, and we're seeing a small number of genuine use cases (imo - these are limited to BTC/ETH store of value and investment diversification).

If Web 3.0 is anywhere on the curve of Web 1.0, we're still in the early days of run up into the Dot Com Boom. We haven't seen the Web3 "Pets.com" yet. Pets.com was mainstream and most people knew about it and talked about it and liked it. The only problem with Pets.com was that it didn't have a valid way to actually make money. Nothing in Web3 has reached that level yet - Web3 is still a topic for enthusiasts only. Once Web3 hits the mainstream, then we'll have the true hype cycle and the true crash, to weed out the impostors and find the uses that actually have value, if any exist.
 

bos

Legend
Staff member
Apr 10, 2006
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Coinbase has been handing out a bunch of free crypto this last week or so. Don’t forget to take their little lessons. It’s mostly crap but you can convert it to whatever you want right after they pay it out
 

ExCyment

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2013
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Crescent, IA
Bitcoin is a commodity that can function as a currency. It has a finite supply which allows for use as a store of value. It can also process more transactions via Lightning than visa/mastercard. And it can do it for pennies per transaction.

It does not function as an inflation hedge. And it trades like a tech stock.

I believe Bitcoin is a hedge against unstable governments, police states where asset seizure is common, and extremely high inflationary environments.
How can it be a commodity when it has no use except as a currency. It is not a commodity any than the dollar is a commodity. It is a currency with no backing, very similar to today's dollar, but isn't controlled. The difference is it isn't controlled by the central bank and in design no more will be created. We'll see.
 

Malone

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2010
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Des Moines
How can it be a commodity when it has no use except as a currency. It is not a commodity any than the dollar is a commodity. It is a currency with no backing, very similar to today's dollar, but isn't controlled. The difference is it isn't controlled by the central bank and in design no more will be created. We'll see.

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JustAnotherTimeline

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2021
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How can it be a commodity when it has no use except as a currency. It is not a commodity any than the dollar is a commodity. It is a currency with no backing, very similar to today's dollar, but isn't controlled. The difference is it isn't controlled by the central bank and in design no more will be created. We'll see.

Bitcoin is a commodity for 2 reasons primarily:

1. Proof of work mechanism (objective value based on cost/labor to produce it)
2. Bitcoin can be accumulated as a store of value asset. There is no matching liability by its creator (like fiat or other financial instruments.)
 
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ExCyment

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2013
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Fiat is a government scam. The system is setup to make the rich richer and feed on the poor. Those closest to the money printer always benefit the most. I think it's funny that all the liberals around here seem blind to the oppressive system in which they participate. Our system is designed for wealth theft. Dollars are just a game of musical chairs. If the music stopped and everyone wanted their assets, there wouldn't be enough chairs. Unelected officials are in charge of a debt system that relies on currency debasement to ensure the carrot of consumerism is always strong. It's a system destined for failure.

A study of 775 historic fiat currencies revealed that that they all eventually fail. The average lifespan is 27 years. We went off the gold standard about 50 years ago. It's only a matter of time.

Or, will the great United States be the first empire in the history of the world to master the fiat scam? It would be pretty arrogant to believe so.
We went off the gold standard when Roosevelt confiscated all Americans gold and made ownership illegal. We just admitted it 50 years ago , as there was not anyone near enough gold to cover the dollars in circulation at that time.