Bottom Line

[jdoggivjc]

FFS this thread is so stupid. Name the last undefeated NC. Hell - in the last 20 years only two teams won the NC with 2 losses (and none had fewer than that) - Baylor in 2021 and Duke in 2012. A handful had 3 losses. The rest had 4 or more. Hell - KU in 2022 had 7 losses.

I'm not saying that we're going to win the NC this year... but this idea that our season is ruined because we picked up our 3rd loss of the season in what amounted to a highway robbery halfcourt shot is beyond stupidity, especially when most of the nation wasn't discouraged by ISU at all last night - especially under the circumstances (playing 2 quad 1 games in 3 days in extremely hostile environments, one of those teams winning 9 of its last 10, and coming within half a second of sweeping it).

 

[Clonefan32]

Of course I am totally bummed out we lost that game, just like I was after West Virginia. However, we just haven't played up to our potential for many games. I would be interested in people's opinions as to WHY.
IMO it's not losing Milan, I hadn't been impressed with him, at all. Preseason TJ said Milan would be a first-class shot hunter......I didn't see that.
Obviously we aren't taking care of the ball, maybe we need to have the ball in Tamin's hands the majority of the time? I realize he has had turnovers also, but he is much calmer and makes good decisions, most of the time.
This is not a bitchfest, or a negative, I believe our fantastic coaches and these hard-nosed players can work it out, just curious on people's thoughts.

While this probably doesn't deserve a reasoned response, I'll go ahead and give it a shot.

Milan, more than anyone, was asked to change his role with our new transfers. Jefferson and Jackson are operating more out of the post-- which is an area Milan worked out of alot last year. Jefferson especially is playing alot of the role Milan did last year in the high post and short corner post ups. So I think Milan has been searching out his role a little bit as he's been largely relegated to the perimeter.

I'd argue other than maybe Jefferson, Milan is the worst guy for us to lose. He is versatile from a position standpoint and his offense makes rotations easier. Right now, it's very difficult to balance rests because our entire wing/post positions aren't really threats to shoot. Milan makes it easier to blend guys like Heise, Chatfield, Jackson, Jefferson and DWat beacuse you can keep some size but maintain spacing. At one point last night we wound up with Chatfield, Heise and DWat in the game at the same time. I don't care who your guards are, that's not going to work. So even just the simple act of having to defend Milan at 3 makes everyone better.

 

[jcyclonee]

And we're a legit national title contender. We're in fine shape with an excellent player returning soon.

Well look at you Mr. Sunshine.

Who replaced Erik? Where is the "We lost. Shut it down." Erik?

 

[jcyclonee]

Our opponents play basketball, too.

But we don't. We play 4-D chess.

 

[jcyclonee]

I'm more worried about seeding/reaching a Final 4 than a regular season title, as well.

But to each their own!

Your mom doesn't worry about seeds.

 

[CoachHines3]

FFS this thread is so stupid. Name the last undefeated NC. Hell - in the last 20 years only two teams won the NC with 2 losses (and none had fewer than that) - Baylor in 2021 and Duke in 2012. A handful had 3 losses. The rest had 4 or more. Hell - KU in 2022 had 7 losses.

I'm not saying that we're going to win the NC this year... but this idea that our season is ruined because we picked up our 3rd loss of the season in what amounted to a highway robbery halfcourt shot is beyond stupidity, especially when most of the nation wasn't discouraged by ISU at all last night - especially under the circumstances (playing 2 quad 1 games in 3 days in extremely hostile environments, one of those teams winning 9 of its last 10, and coming within half a second of sweeping it).

I look at it like we stole one away in Lubbock and last night was stolen back.

losses will happen, especially on the road. This team still balled out and showed how tough they are.

you're right, 1 game where we picked up our 3rd loss on a beyond half court prayer is not going to ruin anything. Or shouldn't.

 

[Statefan10]

Maybe that's just who this team is. Has the talent, the experience and scheme to win the NC but falls short because the pieces can't seem to all realize the potential in unison.

I agree with others here that the goal now should be to rack up quad 1 wins and to try to develop a rhythm where we can get the players to peak at the right time if there is such a thing. B12 title is secondary.

I'm not sure if we can really say they're falling short here.. I mean in individual games where we've lost, sure but so far our losses have come to one great team on a tip in on a neutral floor, one good team in a top 10 environment by a miracle, and one pretty good team that came down to the wire in a top 25 environment. Who knows how the rest of the year fairs but going 16-4 with losses @ WVU, @ Arizona, @ KU and @ Houston would be fringe 1 seed territory and certainly the first 2 seed.

Look at last year's Final 4.. Purdue lost 3 regular season games, @ Northwestern, @ Nebraska by 16 and @ Ohio State who didn't make the tournament. NCST was a Cinderella and isn't in our category but still lost 14 games in the regular season. Alabama lost 10 games in the regular season and there were some ass kickings in there. UCONN lost 3 regular season games @ KU, by 15 @ Seton Hall and then by 19 @ Creighton.

And of all of the Final 4 teams that made it last year, they weren't playing perfect throughout the year even in their wins. They had to win some very close ones.

 

[cytor]

Bottom Line- I love cheering for this team every game they play because they will always give it their best effort. Tamin is playing with a broken thumb on his shooting hand and balling out, Cujo is a big 12 PoTY candidate, Keshon is a dog, etc. We will be even better when Milan comes back with his elite shooting this year. We will be fine and will still be national champions.

FIFY

 

[cytor]

I look at it like we stole one away in Lubbock and last night was stolen back.

losses will happen, especially on the road. This team still balled out and showed how tough they are.

you're right, 1 game where we picked up our 3rd loss on a beyond half court prayer is not going to ruin anything. Or shouldn't.

I'm gonna Ball Out with ur mom tonight. I need the pick-me-up after last night.

 

[isucy86]

Am I concerned that our offense isn't on overdrive and our defense shows cracks at times sure.

But a hoops season is a marathon and teams go through lulls. With past Cyclone teams that could be 3-4 losses over a 6 game window. I don't feel this team will do that. Losing to WVU in Morgantown and Arizona at McHale are places top 10 teams can easily lose.

Do we need to take better care of the ball? Definitely
Could we rebound better at times? Sure
Could we defend better on ball? You bet

But at the same time, there are 20 things that we do really well.

And to throw shade on Milan is completely misplaced. His role is different than last year. We have so many more scoring options with Jefferson, Jackson, Heise than last season. Plus guys like Jones and Gilbert are playing at a different level than last season.

Milan is averaging around 10ppg in 24 mpg. He's shooting about 47% overall, 44% from 3 and 78% from FT. Sound like a VERY efficient offensive player to me.

 

[Letterkenny]

Quite reasonable and fair. But that is a 2 seed resume which will be disappointing. Which is unfair but that is the perception.

Not to me. Disappointing would be dropping from a potential 1 seed to like a 5-6. Dropping from a 1 to a 2 is a tiny margin. It's the difference between going 26-5, or going 25-6. If your criteria between a successful season, and a disappointing one is that small.....

 

[isucy86]

Not to me. Disappointing would be dropping from a potential 1 seed to like a 5-6. Dropping from a 1 to a 2 is a tiny margin. It's the difference between going 26-5, or going 25-6. If your criteria between a successful season, and a disappointing one is that small.....

If I look back on a season, how we are seeded for the Tournament is down on the list of what I remember:

1. How we finish in March Madness. Final 4, Elite 8, Sweet 16, etc.
2. Regular Big12 Season Finish
3. Big12 Tournament Championship
4. Memorable season wins over quality opponents.

Agree with what you said. Little difference between a 1 & 2 seed. Last year the top 4 seeds won their conference regular seasons. The other 2 seeds besides ISU- the SEC champ Tennessee, the Pac 12 Champ Arizona and Big East Tourney Champ Marquette.

But I would go even a step further, from a seeding (which is NCAA Tournament) perspective, is there much of a difference between a 2 & 3 seed? They end up playing each other in the dance if top seeds win their games.

 

[CycloneErik]

Well look at you Mr. Sunshine.

Who replaced Erik? Where is the "We lost. Shut it down." Erik?

Good point. It's all over.

 

[ClonerJams]

No team plays a perfect game. We're fortunate that we're able to win most games not playing an A game.

 

[CoachHines3]

I'm gonna Ball Out with ur mom tonight. I need the pick-me-up after last night.

Hell ya!

 

[madguy30]

Good point. It's all over.

 

[Klubber]

Arizona's game plan to stop us offensively was to hound Jones relentlessly and clog the lane to take away Keshon and Lipsey's strengths. They have long and athletic guards and sped us up in the first half. Without Milan, that's probably how I'd try to defend us. Credit to Arizona for that.

Our guards forced things in the first half and our offensive sets were messy at times, dribbling too much. Lipsey saved us by knocking down some 3s in the first half to keep the game close and making Arizona adjust.

Once Jones and Gilbert slowed things down in the second half, our offense settled in a bit and we looked way more composed. We kept the ball moving in the second half and had the game won until Love's 60 footer. In overtime, home court advantage took over and things went about as expected when both teams are even.

They made one more play, and a crazy low-percentage one at that. It didn't take anything away from the toughness we showed last night.

Yep. And I'd also say it would've been easy for these guys to mail it in on this one after a long trip, a tough come from behind win vs ASU where CuJo logged heavy minutes (all 40), and our 2nd tough game in 3 days. But this team is freaking nails and almost pulled off a 2-0 'Zona road trip.

This kind of loss would carry over to the next game for lots of teams. I'm confident we'll put a beat down on KState in response.

 

[ISUKyro]

Wait, has the rot already set in?

Just out of gas as well as not sweating enough. Could be worse

 

[bosco]

No team plays a perfect game. We're fortunate that we're able to win most games not playing an A game.

I watched. Arizona definitely didn't play their A game either. We have had the habit to play moderately well and win. Great teams over come adversity and win.

 

[dafarmer]

Our missing piece is Conrad Hawley!