Ankeny water ban

[VeloClone]

If the river is carrying 13 ppm of NO3 morning, noon and night that number can be calculated, but it’s pointless. We already know the water is above the standard, regardless of the amount.

Yes, that guy's post is pointless. That was my point. He is posting a number wtih no context to fear monger. The important numbers are the ppm and the ppm threshold that is considered dangerous. All other numbers - his and mine alike - are pointless.

 

[Turn2]

Yes, that guy's post is pointless. That was my point. He is posting a number wtih no context to fear monger. The important numbers are the ppm and the ppm threshold that is considered dangerous. All other numbers - his and mine alike - are pointless.

No, his post is NOT pointless, because it shows in a real world way just how much fertilizer is being wasted daily. The water flow calculation is pointless because that's publicly available info.

 

[Turn2]

Chris Jones (@theswinerepublic.bsky.social)

last 5 days (estimating today based on data at noon), the contents of 48 of these (34,311 gal anhydrous ammonia rail car) have traveled thru Cedar Rapids in the Cedar River. That's 6.94 million lbs of N, enuf to contaminate 316 billion gal of water to 10 mg/L, the EPA limit for municipal supply.

bsky.app

…and there goes another trainload.

 

[KennyPratt42]

This kind of reminds me of the intro to economics course example of how you can change the perception of things based on how you present the numbers, the example my professor used was linear measurement vs volume. If you laid every person on earth end to end you can go to the moon and back over 16 times, but you can also fit every person on earth with a living space into the Grand Canyon, around 18,000 cubic feet for each of them (a 1,800 square foot area with a 10 foot ceiling as an example).

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

And at roughly 8.34 lbs. per gallon that is 83.4 trillion lbs. since the nitrates/nitrogen were given in pounds in the posting.

83 trillion lbs of nitrates. Yeesh.

 

[2speedy1]

Iowa, the entire state........................Karst topography? Do you know what the ph in dolomite and limestone does to water when it seeps through?

And WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING or the water is going to be unfit?

Your post^^^^ has a much higher nitrate level than Iowa's water.

The problem is Karst is in a lof of the state, and do you realize it is like swiss cheese so its not exactly filtering, There are locations where there are voids leading to ground water sources. And the areas without Karst are also having issues.

So in your theory, the limestone is not allowing pollutants to the aquafer? Then why are more and more wells testing positive for pollutants? Why are many counties recommending yearly water tests for private wells?
Is it just magic that the pollution is getting to the wells?

Let me guess you are one of the Hog farmers in the state that doesnt think 50 million hogs is enough, and loves dumping as much **** on the land as possible, cuz its organic, right.... then drink it if its so good for you!

Karst Bedrock & Well Contamination

Find information about potential water quality problems, especially the shallow bedrock aquifers in the karst regions of Northeast Iowa.

www.iowadnr.gov

 

[frackincygy]

83 trillion lbs of nitrates. Yeesh.

That's the calculation for the mass of water...

 

[Cyientist]

83 trillion lbs of nitrates. Yeesh.

That was pounds of water.

 

[frackincygy]

The problem is Karst is in a lof of the state, and do you realize it is like swiss cheese so its not exactly filtering, There are locations where there are voids leading to ground water sources. And the areas without Karst are also having issues.

So in your theory, the limestone is not allowing pollutants to the aquafer? Then why are more and more wells testing positive for pollutants? Why are many counties recommending yearly water tests for private wells?
Is it just magic that the pollution is getting to the wells?

Let me guess you are one of the Hog farmers in the state that doesnt think 50 million hogs is enough, and loves dumping as much **** on the land as possible, cuz its organic, right.... then drink it if its so good for you!

Karst Bedrock & Well Contamination

Find information about potential water quality problems, especially the shallow bedrock aquifers in the karst regions of Northeast Iowa.

www.iowadnr.gov

This is from the link you posted as supporting evidence...


i.e. the wells are above the Limestone or the wells are not cased properly

 

[2speedy1]

This is from the link you posted as supporting evidence...
View attachment 151719

i.e. the wells are above the Limestone or the wells are not cased properly

View attachment 151721

Great...now tell me how those pollutants got in the water. I get how they are getting in the well. Do they just magically appear, or is it because those pollutants are being spread on the land like frosting? Do they make it to the water systems because we have done things to prevent it, or because we have tilled up every grass water way, grass buffer, stand of trees, and anything else to plant a few more acres of corn?

Hog manure is no better than any other chemical, just because it is less concentrated, just means they put more on the land to compensate.

It also says because of the voids in the karst etc, it makes it easier for surface pollutants to make it into aquafers and wells, sure it is going to be the shallow wells first, but eventually those deep wells will be polluted as well, especially when water finds a route that is direct. Not to mention that our rivers, streams and Lakes are cesspools because of it.

Yes the deeper the well the better, but that doesnt exactly mean there is not an issue. As I said if it is so safe, go drink it, bath in it, live in it. If they are so great why do so many buidings get built next to someone else than in the actual owners back yard. If its not an issue, what is our water so polluted and getting worse, even with the use of more manure than chemicals, it has only accelerated the pollution.

Why do we treat human waste, and cover the ground with animal waste like it is somehow not the same thing. Dumping the amount of hog manure on the land in Iowa is the same thing if we took the entire population of the USA and just spread their waste in only Iowa right on the land without treatment. Would anyone want to live here, if that was the case? No! But it is somehow ok that we do that with a similar amount of hog waste.

50M hogs in Iowa is the equivalent of around 500M people.

 

[nfrine]

The operation across the highway dumps loads of chicken crap over their fields in the late fall - early winter. Sometimes it gets incorporated before it freezes, sometimes not. The run off and smell are huge deals. According to the DNR, there is not much we can do about it.

If I go crap in this guys yard, I would get arrested.

 

[Cyientist]

I posted last week that I thought we were headed in the right direction but a lot would depend on how this weeks rain went. So far we have been fortunate that the rain has been hitting the South Raccoon instead of the North Raccoon. Below is a 3 day cumulative rainfall map. Higher flows from the South Racoon generally dilutes when it comes to N, bacteria may be another matter though... I also don't know how the South Raccoon will react after all of this rain, it's a huge event.

I drew in a black line that is more or less the divide between the North and South Raccoon for reference.



I was wrong last Friday in that I thought we may have been in a good enough spot to lift the ban during/after the weekend as I thought the North Raccoon would drop in N concentration faster than it did (I did agree with keeping it in place through this active week though). The discharge has been steadily declining since peaking on Monday June 16th and the nitrate concentration had a really flat peak the following Tuesday/Wednesday. The N peak of around 18.6 was still much lower than the 22+ it hit in the event that led to the watering ban. Nitrate levels stayed steadier than I thought they would have over the weekend, but they have started a slow but steady decline starting Monday afternoon as you can see in the figure below.



The bad news is Sac, Calhoun, and Pocahontas Counties are in a Flood Watch now through Thursday afternoon. Unfortunately, we are in a position of hoping these areas only get an inch or so of rain and not the possible 2 or 3 that could happen. Feel free to jump in @NorthCyd, it's been a minute since I've been in the monitoring game.

 

[swiacy]

Great...now tell me how those pollutants got in the water. I get how they are getting in the well. Do they just magically appear, or is it because those pollutants are being spread on the land like frosting? Do they make it to the water systems because we have done things to prevent it, or because we have tilled up every grass water way, grass buffer, stand of trees, and anything else to plant a few more acres of corn?

Hog manure is no better than any other chemical, just because it is less concentrated, just means they put more on the land to compensate.

It also says because of the voids in the karst etc, it makes it easier for surface pollutants to make it into aquafers and wells, sure it is going to be the shallow wells first, but eventually those deep wells will be polluted as well, especially when water finds a route that is direct. Not to mention that our rivers, streams and Lakes are cesspools because of it.

Yes the deeper the well the better, but that doesnt exactly mean there is not an issue. As I said if it is so safe, go drink it, bath in it, live in it. If they are so great why do so many buidings get built next to someone else than in the actual owners back yard. If its not an issue, what is our water so polluted and getting worse, even with the use of more manure than chemicals, it has only accelerated the pollution.

Why do we treat human waste, and cover the ground with animal waste like it is somehow not the same thing. Dumping the amount of hog manure on the land in Iowa is the same thing if we took the entire population of the USA and just spread their waste in only Iowa right on the land without treatment. Would anyone want to live here, if that was the case? No! But it is somehow ok that we do that with a similar amount of hog waste.

50M hogs in Iowa is the equivalent of around 500M people.

A 300 lb hog produces about 9.6 lbs of urine and feces daily. A 300 lb human produces about 5.5 lbs of urine and feces daily. Your numbers are off. I get your point just like to be accurate. Carry on.

 

[nfrine]

A 300 lb hog produces about 9.6 lbs of urine and feces daily. A 300 lb human produces about 5.5 lbs of urine and feces daily. Your numbers are off. I get your point just like to be accurate. Carry on.

A 300 pound Hok produces a lot more crap than that....

 

[VeloClone]

We are talking in this thread so much about what we shouldn't do. Maybe the conversation should be about what we should do. The midwestern United States has been tasked with feeding a good portion of the world. How do we do that, sustain our land, and make enough of a profit to keep going without destroying our waterways?

Farmers for the most part have deomonstrated that if given an option that can be cost effective and better for the their land and the planet they will do it. Look at the emergence of no till, low till, and strip till practices. They need options to be able to do the right thing and stay in business.

 

[Turn2]

We are talking in this thread so much about what we shouldn't do. Maybe the conversation should be about what we should do. The midwestern United States has been tasked with feeding a good portion of the world. How do we do that, sustain our land, and make enough of a profit to keep going without destroying our waterways?

Farmers for the most part have deomonstrated that if given an option that can be cost effective and better for the their land and the planet they will do it. Look at the emergence of no till, low till, and strip till practices. They need options to be able to do the right thing and stay in business.

Half of the state's corn production goes toward ethanol. Ethanol should be derived from perennial sources. Every acre of corn and soybeans that is replaced with a perennial groundcover improves the water situation immensely. Our universities have failed farmers by devoting their efforts in favor of Big Ag instead of innovations to benefit the public at large.

 

[AgronAlum]

We are talking in this thread so much about what we shouldn't do. Maybe the conversation should be about what we should do. The midwestern United States has been tasked with feeding a good portion of the world. How do we do that, sustain our land, and make enough of a profit to keep going without destroying our waterways?

Farmers for the most part have deomonstrated that if given an option that can be cost effective and better for the their land and the planet they will do it. Look at the emergence of no till, low till, and strip till practices. They need options to be able to do the right thing and stay in business.

Minnesota Buffer Law | MN Board of Water, Soil Resources

bwsr.state.mn.us

 

[VeloClone]

Half of the state's corn production goes toward ethanol. Ethanol should be derived from perennial sources. Every acre of corn and soybeans that is replaced with a perennial groundcover improves the water situation immensely. Our universities have failed farmers by devoting their efforts in favor of Big Ag instead of innovations to benefit the public at large.

I am a big fan of corn stover ethanol production.

 

[AgronAlum]

I am a big fan of corn stover ethanol production.

I'm not sure it actually works on a large scale. The plant in Nevada sat for like a decade before being sold and switched over to cellulosic natural gas instead.

 

[VeloClone]

I'm not sure it actually works on a large scale. The plant in Nevada sat for like a decade before being sold and switched over to cellulosic natural gas instead.

They are doing some promising research into the preparation of the biomass making the whole process more economical.