AAF in Des Moines?

[Sigmapolis]

Like I said I don’t see it as feasible in Des Moines I just think people dismiss Des Moines’ population without looking at it in context. Des Moines punches above its weight class in regard to population relative to other places.

Mind if I ask why you think this?

It cannot be because Des Moines can serve as some sort of "hub" for other population centers. Des Moines (and the cities west of the Mississippi generally) is relatively isolated compared to the Great Lakes, Southeast, and Northeast states, where major population centers are packed closer to one another, such as in Ohio and Indiana around Dayton.

Is it just hearty Iowans willing to drive further for events?

Or just a higher baseline love for live sports on a per capita basis?

I agree, too, that I am not sure something like this can work in Des Moines if the season is mostly played in February and March. Games in November at Jack Trice are one thing; this would be a whole extra level from that. They should look at the UNI Dome if they really want to do something in Iowa, or just head up to Fargo. They would love a team.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

Here are the largest metro areas without an NFL team

#13 Riverside, CA
#17 San Diego (AAF)
#21 St. Louis (XFL)
#23 Orlando (AAF)
#24 San Antonio (AAF)
#25 Portland
#27 Sacramento
#31 Austin
#32 Columbus
#37 Virginia Beach-Norfolk
#38 Providence
#41 OKC
#42 Memphis (AAF)

And on and on etc. You can argue that Riverside is really LA, Sacramento is Niners country, Austin and San Antonio are the same, Providence is a Patriots city, whatever, but Des Moines is #88 so there are still enough markets for a 32-team league in addition to the NFL before Des Moines becomes a great option - especially considering available facilities.

 

[KnappShack]

How is the AHL team doing in Des Moines?

 

[Dandy]

I'm sorry but there's absolutely no way that will happen. People don't drive from all over the state to watch the Iowa Wild or Iowa Wolves in a comfortable indoor arena, there's no way they will drive from all over the state to sit outside and watch semi-pro football in crappy weather.

The draw for these minor-league and semi-pro type teams are smaller metro markets where it is simply "something to do" for a family or a group of friends to go out for drinks/supper and go to a game. People don't go to these games because they are big fans of these teams.

Are the Iowa Wild or Wolves filled with Iowa university alumni? The AAF teams are built by geography. Not exactly an apples-to-apples team roster comparison.

 

[laminak]

Currently all but one AAF team is in a southern state. The only one which isn't is in Salt Lake City, with an open air stadium. I'm wondering how they handle it.

I agree with the others, starting in February will kill attendance for a DM team that is in an open-air stadium. While it would be a "nice to do" diversion, people still have to travel to get to the game and sit in the stands. Heck, our ISU weather threads had people talking about bailing on ISU MBB games due to bad weather even a week ago, and that was for an indoor game and we're diehards. People won't do that for an AAF team.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Mind if I ask why you think this?

It cannot be because Des Moines can serve as some sort of "hub" for other population centers. Des Moines (and the cities west of the Mississippi generally) is relatively isolated compared to the Great Lakes, Southeast, and Northeast states, where major population centers are packed closer to one another, such as in Ohio and Indiana around Dayton.

Is it just hearty Iowans willing to drive further for events?

Or just a higher baseline love for live sports on a per capita basis?

I agree, too, that I am not sure something like this can work in Des Moines if the season is mostly played in February and March. Games in November at Jack Trice are one thing; this would be a whole extra level from that. They should look at the UNI Dome if they really want to do something in Iowa, or just head up to Fargo. They would love a team.

I’m not sure why but I think it pretty clearly does. I think some of it is that it is smack dab in the middle of the void between Chicago, KC, and Minneapolis plus a couple of others. Where is someone from Cedar Rapids or Iowa City going to go? Sure they could go to Chicago but there’s a reason they live in Cedar Rapids or Iowa City. As a result it legitimately pulls from most of the state. Some of the other places mentioned have the issue of pulling to multiple locations.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I’m not sure why but I think it pretty clearly does. I think some of it is that it is smack dab in the middle of the void between Chicago, KC, and Minneapolis plus a couple of others. Where is someone from Cedar Rapids or Iowa City going to go? Sure they could go to Chicago but there’s a reason they live in Cedar Rapids or Iowa City. As a result it legitimately pulls from most of the state. Some of the other places mentioned have the issue of pulling to multiple locations.

Those are all 3-4 hour drives, though -- if not 5-6 to Chicago.

I think your answer does come down to my supposition that you believe Iowans (or maybe just people generally further to the west) are willing to drive further.

 

[DeereClone]

Are the Iowa Wild or Wolves filled with Iowa university alumni? The AAF teams are built by geography. Not exactly an apples-to-apples team roster comparison.

How many Iowa, ISU, UNI, etc alum are in the AAF right now? I don't know the answer but it can't be a ton and there's no promise they would even necessarily want to play for a Des Moines team.

There is no way I am driving 2 hours to watch Joel Lanning play semi-pro football in February outside in Des Moines. I and 99.9% of other fans have ZERO interest in doing that.

 

[2speedy1]

As some have said here, I think the season is just a bit off here. I think the best season at least for Iowa is a bit later but before many of the summer activities get going. Unfortunately, that is different for every location.
In the Des Moines area if there was a way to draw in a pro level Soccer team and/or some other league to go with it, you then would have to build a large domed multi use venue. But this would take years of development.

I think with the season there are 2 aspects, the current season is battling winter weather, yet people are looking for things to do, but also have that burn out where they don't feel like going to a football game in the middle of the winter.
A season just a bit later might get to the possibility of an outdoor stadium, although indoor would still be better, but would also allow for better weather and get the people itching to get out as the weather improves, yet not be late enough to interfere with summer activities. March-May time frame, thus allowing for tailgating that isn't in a snowbank.

 

[Die4Cy]

There might be a case to be made that pushing the season a little later might help with fan fatigue immediately after the end of the NFL season, and weather to make more northerly teams playing outdoors more viable.

But they are clearly doing something right: TV ratings have been picking up more eyeballs each week so far. It is hard to measure in total with games on streaming platforms and sports channels that most people don't get. But I do think people involved have been pleased with the quality of the broadcasts.

 

[Gunnerclone]

This site likes to throw around the DSM market like its a huge draw(we were really pushing it back in the realignment era). DSM is nice, but the eyeballs aren't there. I live in Tulsa now and we are nearly twice as big, and no one talks about it like Iowans speak of Des Moines. Its all relative I know. I am not here to start an argument, but the data is there for all to see.

I think a lot of these areas are tough sells. The populations are either in areas with strong collegiate football presence, or in towns not know for the big American sports(Portland and ABQ for starters). I think some of these areas have potential but there are usually reasons that the NFL is not in certain areas.

I have a rule...if your city is featured on “First 48” then it’s a ********.

 

[Gunnerclone]

You are incredibly optimistic as to the draw of this league, in Iowa, in late Winter, early Spring.

I think everyone is incredibly optimistic to even think this league will still be around in 5 years.

 

[brett108]

I have a rule...if your city is featured on “First 48” then it’s a ********.

I'm not defending Tulsa here. There are enough native Tulsans to do that. This city is a weird blend of hick and hipster, rich and extremely poor, and some of the worst infrastructure and schools you will find. We are discussing the draw of a AAF team in a cold weather location like Des Moines. I am not local so I don't want to detract from the idea, and am ok with whatever as long as I feel it wont detract from the cyclones.

 

[EvilBetty]

if it takes one single fan away from Iowa state games (can't afford to go to both, time/money/location), then I am against it. so, I am against it. I hope Iowa never gets a professional team in any facet for this reason. college sports are awesome in the state of Iowa. don't need professional sports watering down the enthusiasm and numbers attending games.

not exactly apples to apples, but Okie state used to have one of the most intimidating crowds in college bball. now even when they are good, that place isn't what it used to be.

I know the seasons are at different times. but still. if you could get family season tickets to AAF for the same price as one season ticket to Iowa state, people may do it.

 

[jdoggivjc]

if it takes one single fan away from Iowa state games (can't afford to go to both, time/money/location), then I am against it. so, I am against it. I hope Iowa never gets a professional team in any facet for this reason. college sports are awesome in the state of Iowa. don't need professional sports watering down the enthusiasm and numbers attending games.

not exactly apples to apples, but Okie state used to have one of the most intimidating crowds in college bball. now even when they are good, that place isn't what it used to be.

I know the seasons are at different times. but still. if you could get family season tickets to AAF for the same price as one season ticket to Iowa state, people may do it.

Disagree completely.

First, while AAF obviously want fans to show up for games, they're more interested in people watching on TV or online. This is actually the revenue model all professional and college sports are headed towards and AAF is fully investing in that model. Therefore, your ability to afford to go to games is irrelevant as long as you're willing to watch from home. And while empty stands looks bad, that's the reality in today's sports and its going to be even worse in years to come as more and more people are priced out of going to live games.

Second, when the Iowa Barnstormers were in the original Arena Football League it never distracted from college sports in Iowa, even at their most popular, and neither does the Wild nor the Energy - why would an AAF team suddenly have that kind of draw to be a distraction? Answer - it won't. Minor league sports will never have the drawing power to take away from college sports in Iowa. What has really happened is you've come up with a number of unfounded fears to become an unneeded personal knight in shining armor to Iowa State athletics.

 

[2speedy1]

I think everyone is incredibly optimistic to even think this league will still be around in 5 years.

While I still think one of these new leagues or a combination of them can work in a perfect scenario, probably involving merging them and a bit of luck. I think it is optimistic to even give them 5 years realistically.

 

[jdoggivjc]

I think everyone is incredibly optimistic to even think this league will still be around in 5 years.

You raise a valid point. However, there is one difference between AAF compared to XFL 1.0, USFL, the original AFL (predecessor to AFC, not Arena League), and others: they're not trying to compete with the NFL, they're trying to become complimentary, if not become an outright farm system for the NFL. This means the NFL isn't going to seek to crush it, but if it goes well enough, perhaps even invest in it kind of like WLAF/NFL Europe.

You're right, this still may not work and odds are it is gone in 5 years. At least they're trying a different route to longevity.

 

[Rabbuk]

You raise a valid point. However, there is one difference between AAF compared to XFL 1.0, USFL, the original AFL (predecessor to AFC, not Arena League), and others: they're not trying to compete with the NFL, they're trying to become complimentary, if not become an outright farm system for the NFL. This means the NFL isn't going to seek to crush it, but if it goes well enough, perhaps even invest in it kind of like WLAF/NFL Europe.

You're right, this still may not work and odds are it is gone in 5 years. At least they're trying a different route to longevity.

I've already gone from being pretty hyped about winter football, to not watching the last two weeks. Not sure what local support is looking like or if thats enough to keep the lights on.

 

[Die4Cy]

I've already gone from being pretty hyped about winter football, to not watching the last two weeks. Not sure what local support is looking like or if thats enough to keep the lights on.

TV ratings have actually been up weekly since the debut on CBS, though. Week 3 TV ratings for games shown on NFL network were up 15 and 21 percent from the games shown week two.

 

[Rabbuk]

TV ratings have been up weekly since the debut on CBS. Week 3 TV ratings for games shown on NFL network were up 15 and 21 percent from the games shown week two.

oh good thats awesome. its a good product.