1996 Bulls vs 2017 Warriors

Gonzo

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What is Luc Longley going to do? Sit in the paint and let the Warriors bigs drain 3s on him. He's big. He's not athletic, skilled, quick, or anything like that.
That's not what I'm talking about. You said today's players are bigger and stronger. Curry is 6'2. Draymond Greene is like 6'6. Yeah watching him and Rodman go at it would be fun, but you're kidding yourself it you think Draymond is bigger or stronger. So that statement is just nonsense. I'd also argue that Harper, Jordan, and Pippen are as fast/faster and as athletic or more athletic than the best players from today.
 

deadeyededric

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That's not what I'm talking about. You said today's players are bigger and stronger. Curry is 6'2. Draymond Greene is like 6'6. Yeah watching him and Rodman go at it would be fun, but you're kidding yourself it you think Draymond is bigger or stronger. I'd also argue that Harper, Jordan, and Pippen are as fast/faster and as athletic or more athletic than the best players from today.
They are bigger, faster, and stronger. Guys today have wider shoulders and weight training is a staple of today's off-season. Id be willing to bet positions 1-5 the warriors could all bench and squat more than any of those guys. How many 6-10 off guards played in the league back then? Look at the shoulders on some of these guys now. They all look like Dwight Howard and he was a freak when he came into the league.
 
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Gonzo

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They are bigger, faster, and stronger. Guys today have wider shoulders and weight training is a staple of today's off-season. Id be willing to bet positions 1-5 the warriors could all bench and squat more than any of those guys. How many 6-10 off guards played in the league back then? Look at the shoulders on some of these guys now. They all look like Dwight Howard.
Lol, ok. I'm going to venture a guess you're under the age of 40?
 

deadeyededric

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Lol, ok. I'm going to venture a guess you're under the age of 40?
I'm 45 I'm just not a ******* moron who lets my memories of childhood make ****** arguments. It's not even ******* close how much more athletic guys today are then back in "the day". Not even close. And people who cover the NBA, not former players who can't let go of their glory days, say the same thing.
 

Gonzo

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I'm 45 I'm just not a ******* moron who lets my memories of childhood make ****** arguments. It's not even ******* close how much more athletic guys today are then back in "the day". Not even close.
Nice. Ok let's just way we disagree that today's GS Warriors are bigger and stronger and faster than the 95-96 Bulls. I suppose they also play better D? Lol.
 

deadeyededric

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Nice. Ok let's just way we disagree that today's GS Warriors are bigger and stronger and faster than the 95-96 Bulls. I suppose they also play better D? Lol.
They played good enough D to win an NBA record games right? JFC the Bulls of that era couldn't have defended in today's NBA. End of story. Could the bulls have played offense like the warriors?
 
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Gonzo

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You really think guys in the 90s were more athletic and stronger than today's players?
I think MJ and Harper and Pippen and Rodman were as big, strong, fast, and athletic as any starting 5 today.

I mean, c'mon. Luca? Joker? Incredibly skilled for sure, but fast and athletic? Lol.
 

Gonzo

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They played good enough D to win an NBA record games right? JFC the Bulls of that era couldn't have defended in today's NBA. End of story. Could the bulls have played offense like the warriors?
Yeah that brings me back to the earlier point that if refs called the games today like they called them in the 90s, the Warriors would be a walking MASH unit. Lol.
 

deadeyededric

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Yeah that brings me back to the earlier point that if refs called the games today like they called them in the 90s, the Warriors would be a walking MASH unit. Lol.
That's the worst ******* argument ever. If the Bulls would have used actual baskets and the lane was 5 ft. more narrow wouldn't the Minneapolis Lakers be the best team ever? Surely you understand that basketball isnt the only sport where athletes are better than before right? I mean I remember how awesome Carl Lewis was when I was a kid to but he wasn't as fast as Usain Bolt. Those 500 ft home runs McGuire used to hit are done weekly by Stanton and Judge. You're smarter than this. I get it those days bring back great memories.
 
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deadeyededric

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Draymond better hope for lots of double technicals because I guarantee he would snap.
He can handle the ball. Just put it on the floor and go by 20 ft out. W
He either gets by or help comes. When help comes he makes a pass and Curry or Edwards drains an easy 3 from a line( that if we're playing by 90s) rules is 3 ft closer.
 

Gonzo

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That's the worst ******* argument ever. If the Bulls would have used actual baskets and the lane was 5 ft. more narrow wouldn't the Minneapolis Lakers be the best team ever? Surely you understand that basketball isnt the only sport where athletes are better than before right? I mean I remember how awesome Carl Lewis was when I was a kid to but he wasn't as fast as Usain Bolt. Those 500 ft home runs McGuire used to hit are done weekly by Stanton and Judge. You're smarter than this. I get it those days bring back great memories.
So are you saying the defense played today is tougher and more physical than the way defense was played back then? Are you saying that the way refs call the games today is the same?

I get the idea of different eras in athletics, and agree with most of it. The 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers would get steamrolled by a mediocre NFL team today. The Steelers OL back then averaged like 250. But that's really not the case here. Guys like Luca and Jokic are skilled but they're not bigger or faster or more athletic than their counterparts from the 90s. They're just not. Curry is 6'2. Lol.

If you seriously don't think that MJ and Pippen and Harper and Rodman were as big, as athletic, as fast, etc. as the guys they'd be guarding today, we just disagree. And they were light years better at playing defense. Just the truth.
 

AllInForISU

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What is Luc Longley going to do? Sit in the paint and let the Warriors bigs drain 3s on him. He's big. He's not athletic, skilled, quick, or anything like that. Have you ever seen Rodman defend the perimeter? I never did and I watched him play even in Detroit. It's a lazy argument to just say because he was a great post defender he can check a guy 30 ft from the basket who can put the ball on the floor.

Yes. He is regarded one of the best 1-5 defenders in NBA history. He guarded Magic in ‘88 finals, he would guard MJ and Bird throughout his career. He would regularly be put on the best offensive player when he was in Detroit, it just so happened a lot of those guys were big men. But he did guard on the perimeter when asked, and did very well.
 

deadeyededric

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So are you saying the defense played today is tougher and more physical than the way defense was played back then? Are you saying that the way refs call the games today is the same?

I get the idea of different eras in athletics, and agree with most of it. The 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers would get steamrolled by a mediocre NFL team today. The Steelers OL back then averaged like 250. But that's really not the case here. Guys like Luca and Jokic are skilled but they're not bigger or faster or more athletic than their counterparts from the 90s. They're just not. Curry is 6'2. Lol.

If you seriously don't think that MJ and Pippen and Harper and Rodman were as big, as athletic, as fast, etc. as the guys they'd be guarding today, we just disagree. And they were light years better at playing defense. Just the truth.
What I'm saying is the rule changes and analytics have changed how teams are built and the game is played. I think I team even built for today would be better at having success playing the older way just based on the skill level of personnel than vice versa. I also reject the idea that today's NBA isn't physical. Do you watch it? You can't get as physical with off players as you used to by rule but if you go to the rim you're going to get your ass beat. Thats why you see younger guards in the league apprehensive about going to the rack. My guess is you don't watch the NBA. And btw us adapting to the rules( which are similar to the way the game is played everywhere else) is the reason we were able to start winning internationally. I got another one for you. Dream Team 2 wasn't as star studded as Dream Team 1 in terms of hall of famers, but they would have beat them.
 

Gonzo

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Yes. He is regarded one of the best 1-5 defenders in NBA history. He guarded Magic in ‘88 finals, he would guard MJ and Bird throughout his career. He would regularly be put on the best offensive player when he was in Detroit, it just so happened a lot of those guys were big men. But he did guard on the perimeter when asked, and did very well.
Don't forget Karl Malone.
 
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Gonzo

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What I'm saying is the rule changes and analytics have changed how teams are built and the game has changed. I think I team even built for today would be better at having success playing the older way just based on the skill level of personnel than vice versa. I also reject the idea that today's NBA isn't physical. Do you watch it? You can't get as physical with off players as you used to by rule but if you go to the rim you're going to get your ass beat. Thats why you see younger guards in the league apprehensive about going to the rack. My guess is you don't watch the NBA.
I've been watching way more this year than I have in previous years and yeah, I've been struck by the lack of defensive intensity, including down low around the rim. It's honestly just a more boring game today IMO.
 

deadeyededric

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I've been watching way more this year than I have in previous years and yeah, I've been struck by the lack of defensive intensity, including down low around the rim. It's honestly just a more boring game today IMO.

Go watch a game from the 80s and look at how they were able to back off, clog the lane, and help defend. I enjoyed basketball back then more myself. I'm telling you right now they play defense just as hard. I've said it once and I'll say it again. When positions 1-5 can all handle the ball and shoot the 3 from 30ft it makes it impossible to defend. Particularly when the 3 of line is farther back and the spacing is extended. You can't just clog the lane like 30 years ago and the spacing makes it impossible to "help defend" which if you watched games in the 90s, and prior was a huge part of defensive strategy. How do you double now without giving up an easy basket? Look at ISU this year. You don't think we were harder to guard when Milan was in fire? Imagine everyone on the floor being able to do that except be able to shoot the ball 2x as well. 1. Even the best defenders in the league can't stop great drivers. Been that way for 50 years. 2. Once you're beat and your teammate comes to help all it takes is one pass to the open guy and he's gonna hit the shot. Now it probably used to be like that for 1-3 but not 4-5's too. How do you defend that? Even the NBA was a 2-3 out 2-3 in league until the early-mid 2000s. Now on offense you can go 5 out 0 in or 4-1 on al.ost every offensive possession.
 
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ISUCyclones2015

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Nah. 95-96 Bulls.

G - R. Harper
G - M. Jordan
F - S. Pippen
F - D. Rodman
C - L. Longley

T. Kukoc coming off the bench.

Nobody matches up with that assemblage of the best offensive AND defensive talent in a starting 5.
And this is why LeBron is better. He almost beat the Warriors with Mathew Delladedova as his second best player. He dragged the 07 Cavs to the finals with... Larry Hughs? or Drew Gooden? as his second best player.

Don't give me that ******** about him being undefeated in the finals. At least LeBron made it there regularly in a much tougher division. The East back in Jordan's era was a teddy bear.