Honestly after about the top 5 transfers the rankings mean nothing on the transfer market. Some kids come from way down in D1 and others come from High D1 with less numbers . It’s not a crap shoot but ranking some transfers over others is silly. Unless it’s like Turner or the Wake Forest kid. The top 5-10 seem really legit
***Official 2019-2020 Transfer Thread***
- Thread starter ruflosn
- Start date
ISU wasn't involved and it sounded like he wanted to be close to Chi-town.
@CBB_Central Javon Freeman-Liberty is off to DePaul. Major get for the Blue Demons.
@CBB_Central Javon Freeman-Liberty is off to DePaul. Major get for the Blue Demons.
I'll take a package deal of him and Chaundee please...
I guess I should have qualified it by saying *almost* starting over, with only 4 returning scholarship players
Your comparison is apples-to-oranges...
4-5 guys as remnants of the previous coaching staff
...versus...
4-5 returning players *and four guys signed for next fall*
(and now Harris added to that)
...are very different situations.
I say four for ISU and five for WF above. Close enough.
Friday Update:
PG Ray Salnave (GT):
PG Jalen Coleman-Lands (GT):
CG AJ Walker (T-2):
SG Koreem Ozier (T-2): ISU, Butler, ECU, Sacred Heart, Cal St-Northride, New Mexico
SG Chaundee Brown (T-1): Gonzaga, Illinois, ISU, LSU
SG Jose Perez (T-2): ISU +9
What Changed:
Nothing
PG Ray Salnave (GT):
PG Jalen Coleman-Lands (GT):
CG AJ Walker (T-2):
SG Koreem Ozier (T-2): ISU, Butler, ECU, Sacred Heart, Cal St-Northride, New Mexico
SG Chaundee Brown (T-1): Gonzaga, Illinois, ISU, LSU
SG Jose Perez (T-2): ISU +9
What Changed:
Nothing
Wake Forest and Iowa State are currently in different spots but the original poster was indicating that turnover at Wake Forest is a program killer and thus we should be weary of letting a coach go who might be in a similar situation someday.
Danny Manning was a failure at Wake Forest and deserved to be fired. He missed the NCAA in years 3, 4 and 5 of his tenure. He had one NCAA Tournament in 5 years and won 13 or less games in 4 of his five years.
As an example if CSP wins 13 or less games in each of the next two years do you think fans would want to hold onto him for an eight because they might have to start over and it could get worse. At that point what the hell are you protecting? Danny Manning inherited a flawed program but when you miss the NCAA tournament 4 out of 5 years, I’m not sure the argument of it could be worse carries much merit. You are already failing, not sure if 10 wins or 13 wins makes a huge difference.
You are missing the other cautionary tale above --
Steve Forbes, Manning's replacement, will have very little to work with leftover from the previous regime. It is likely to be a lengthy and difficult rebuild. Looks like all the players worth having at WF have their names in the portal and are heading out.
Many of the "traditional" (if the past decade counts as traditional) tools for a quick rebuild, such as the transfer or JUCO market, are not as open as they used to be to such programs. The highest-quality transfers now go to top-flight programs looking to plug holes in their competitive rosters, and the JUCO ranks are not what they once were.
Forbes is going to have to grind out recruiting classes and developing those classes with what remains of his existing players. It will probably not be quick or easy. He might be able to do it, but in a competitive conference like the ACC (and just as much in the Big 12) that is going to take some time, probably at least three seasons.
if Prohm falls as flat on his face as you describe, you ultimately have no choice but to fire him. But if that happens, I would lean the recliner back and get comfortable as an Iowa State fan, because whoever comes after him (TJ Otz or not) is likely going to have to basically start over and follow the long, difficult process that I describe above.
It might work. But it very well might not.
And it is going to require a ton of patience from us as fans either way.
Are you serious, Sig?
We’re coming off a 12-20 season and have just 4 players returning from last year’s team, plus a redshirt Johnson. Two guys that have played more than 1 year here and on a winning team. That’s starting over by most measures. There’s nothing negative Nancy about that, it’s a thing most good programs will have, although not always twice in 3 years, with the peak in between a .500 conference season.
You have it flipped! Wake Forest is a cautionary tale for what happens when you have a insufficient coach and hang on too long because of recruiting/future rosters.
Look, I agree with you there comes a point where it is not working and it is clear it will never work and you have to move on from a coaching staff.
But play out the hypothetical -- Prohm got fired a few months ago.
What would have happened?
-- Nixon and Jacobson still graduate
-- Young leaves as a graduate transfer (and is highly-sought by blue-bloods)
-- Lewis and Griffin probably still leave, Grill probably still goes to UNLV
-- Johnson and Bolton are kind of stuck having used their redshirts
-- would not have surprised me if Conditt and Jackson explored other options, especially if they could get hardship waivers for their coach having changed
-- the whole recruiting class coming in might be nuked... guys like Foster and Blackwell are going to be receiving a lot of phone calls if available
Instead of having five returners and four signed freshman, you might end up with as few as two returners, and you have to re-recruit Jackson, Conditt, and the four freshman. How about you say you end up with half of them, so 3/6, for a total of five guys.
You end up with three scholarship returners and two true freshmen. Plus, remember that this is the median scenario. It could actually be much worse than that!
You would be starting over to a degree that greatly exceeds anything like we have now where we have five returners, four signed guys, and one known transfer. Whenever Prohm goes, something like this is likely to happen. We hit rock bottom.
If and when you fire a guy, you better be really sure about it, because whoever comes in next is likely coming into an empty cupboard, without a hot transfer and JUCO market to build from like there was 10-20 years ago, and they better be ready to face down that situation and rebuild a team from its foundations in a brutally competitive conference.
That process is not going to be quick or easy even if ultimately successful. And, of course, that process could be a ******* nightmare that never works out, just like it was when a UNI coach came to Ames and never won anything of any note. You guys very well might get your wish in seeing Prohm walking out of Sukup carrying his stuff in a cardboard box at some point in the future, but I am cautioning you to slow down.
Be careful what you wish for. The aftermath might not be pretty.
Sure, the next guy might be Chris Beard and handle it all with aplomb. Or he might be Greg McDermott and we win 9-14 games for five years straight.
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I think there’s a good chance that between COVID19, the rule change vote, and just the general randomness of exemptions, it may have been viewed as a better chance a few days ago, with little downside. A take either way, and who knows what happens in terms of eligibility with votes, COVID19, etc.
We knew Bolton had a case right away when we signed him. I haven’t heard of one with Harris, but I hope there is one.
Or they just pass the one time waiver rule and implement it right away.
Or they just pass the one time waiver rule and implement it right away.
after finding out that my coach is not good, I shall receive more calls. Guessing like Texas or someone called him
So in the case of Wake Forest, your advice would be to continue with a coach that has failed to make the tournament 80% of the time and has finished 12th or worse in that conference in 4 out of those five years. Sig, I get that the road might be tough for Forbes but hasn’t Manning in year 5 already shown you it isn’t going to work? I would rather try a different approach at that point versus continually hitting your head against the wall. Because in that case both scenarios require the fanbase to be patient.
He impressed me when I was watching the Trey Murphy highlights. Looks to have point forward potential.
