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City Council Approves 40-Acre Entertainment District

capitalcityguy

capitalcityguy

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Jun 14, 2007
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Yeeeeahhhhh……I’d pump the brakes a tad. Waukee or the developer (or whomever it was) that uttered any comparison to P &L District did one of two things by going down that road:

  1. Doomed this project by overpromising and thus most likely under delivering (in a BIG way)
  2. Completely misunderstands what causes people to be attracted to an “entertainment district” . hint: Location and other nearby amenities – neither usually meaning carved out of a cornfield or without the backdrop of a urban (i.e…a city’s downtown) and most importantly, major venues (e.g….arenas) within walking distance.
People move to places like Waukee for affordable single family homes, low crime, and good schools. People do not visit Waukee to support an entertainment district. Maybe circa 1985 this makes sense….but this seems really out of step with trends as to where people tend to want to spend their major entertainment dollars.
 
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Urbandale2013

Urbandale2013

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Jan 28, 2018
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capitalcityguy said:
Yeeeeahhhhh……I’d pump the brakes a tad. Waukee or the developer (or whomever it was) that uttered any comparison to P &L District did one of two things by going down that road:

  1. Doomed this project by overpromising and thus most likely under delivering (in a BIG way)
  2. Completely misunderstands what causes people to be attracted to an “entertainment district” . hint: Location and other nearby amenities – neither usually meaning carved out of a cornfield or without the backdrop of a urban (i.e…a city’s downtown) and most importantly, major venues (e.g….arenas) within walking distance.
People move to places like Waukee for affordable single family homes, low crime, and good schools. People do not visit Waukee to support an entertainment district. Maybe circa 1985 this makes sense….but this seems really out of step with trends as to where people tend to want to spend their major entertainment dollars.
Click to expand...

I do pump the breaks a ton on this one but I don’t think it will be a disaster. I think it will be more in line with West Glenn. I think we are seeing a new development trend that actually brings some of the principles of urban planning you like to suburbia. I think we are going to see more of these pseudo urban areas that let people “live” in an urban are while still living in the suburbs.
 
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06_CY

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Apr 11, 2006
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Not really sure this is needed in Waukee. While there's not a bunch of entertainment stuff in Waukee itself (the new theater is awesome) and the location of it is wide open, this doesn't seem to fit. I never liked the setup of West Glen and didn't hang out in that area much, so maybe this will be a better option.
 
Cybone

Cybone

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Fleet Farm is supposed to build out there too. Wonder when/if Target builds out this way...
 
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AuH2O

AuH2O

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Sep 7, 2013
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While I suspect something like this will be fine, I don't really get the idea behind these Entertainment Districts in the suburbs as being something all that exciting. Whether it's the district by Prairie Trail in Ankeny or West Glen, there's not like there's critical mass of locals and businesses to be something that's going to attract events or a bunch of people going there for a day or weekend and visiting multiple businesses. In the end all of these just seem like a bunch of businesses where people drive there, visit one of the businesses, then drive home. I guess it's better from the perspective of space and aesthetics vs. a bunch of businesses sprawled out, but I don't really see anything to get excited about. I haven't really been in Waukee much, but it does seem like it's pretty light in terms of businesses given the population.
 
aeroclone

aeroclone

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Oct 30, 2006
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capitalcityguy said:
Yeeeeahhhhh……I’d pump the brakes a tad. Waukee or the developer (or whomever it was) that uttered any comparison to P &L District did one of two things by going down that road:

  1. Doomed this project by overpromising and thus most likely under delivering (in a BIG way)
  2. Completely misunderstands what causes people to be attracted to an “entertainment district” . hint: Location and other nearby amenities – neither usually meaning carved out of a cornfield or without the backdrop of a urban (i.e…a city’s downtown) and most importantly, major venues (e.g….arenas) within walking distance.
People move to places like Waukee for affordable single family homes, low crime, and good schools. People do not visit Waukee to support an entertainment district. Maybe circa 1985 this makes sense….but this seems really out of step with trends as to where people tend to want to spend their major entertainment dollars.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely a market for things like this in the burbs. Places like P&L are big draws for tourists and downtown residents, but they aren't the typical Saturday night for locals in other parts of the metro. I go out to P&L a couple times a year when I am downtown for an event at Sprint Center. But the other 360ish days a year if I want to go out and do something I'm not dragging myself down there. Build this thing to the proper scale of the market it will serve and it will do well.
 
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capitalcityguy

capitalcityguy

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Jun 14, 2007
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Des Moines
Urbandale2013 said:
I do pump the breaks a ton on this one but I don’t think it will be a disaster. I think it will be more in line with West Glenn. I think we are seeing a new development trend that actually brings some of the principles of urban planning you like to suburbia. I think we are going to see more of these pseudo urban areas that let people “live” in an urban are while still living in the suburbs.
Click to expand...

Agree with everything you've said here. I don't think it will be a "disaster", I"m just suggesting it will be very difficult being on the edge of a metro and expecting to draw in people from all corners (which is needed to provide the numbers to make this something special). West Glen is much more centralized with the metro population base as is Prairie Trail in Ankeny.

I am also skeptical that they'll effectively create an urban feel here. I predict there will be too many one story single use buildings and oceans of parking that will work against this being anything similar to what you and I might hope it to be.

That said, the rendering in the article looks cool and much better than anything I saw earlier when I first heard of this proposal.
 
twojman

twojman

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Jun 1, 2006
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The location is a good spot, especially with the new athletics facility being built in West Des Moines. The hotel will be filled a lot. I don't think you all understand the amount of money the metro area is missing out on by not having more tournaments of all kinds located here. I know there are several right now but the potential for more is massive. We are headed to KC this weekend for a boys soccer tourney, my wife and daughter were there last week for a girls tourney. They are hosting another next weekend as a college show case, they have one in early December for ODP (Olympic Development Program) teams. This does not count the numerous other soccer tourneys they have on top of all the other sports.

People are in hotels Friday and Saturday night and they flood restaurants throughout the day...not to mention other shopping they might do.

I think a few years down the road we'll see more hotels in that area as well as more indoor/outdoor use facilities in this area.
 
capitalcityguy

capitalcityguy

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Jun 14, 2007
8,332
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Des Moines
aeroclone said:
There is absolutely a market for things like this in the burbs. Places like P&L are big draws for tourists and downtown residents, but they aren't the typical Saturday night for locals in other parts of the metro. I go out to P&L a couple times a year when I am downtown for an event at Sprint Center. But the other 360ish days a year if I want to go out and do something I'm not dragging myself down there. Build this thing to the proper scale of the market it will serve and it will do well.
Click to expand...

I was waiting for you to point to a concrete example of a project like this in an outer ring suburb where this has/is working now. Do you have one? If this is a slam dunk, there should be plenty of examples to point to.

My main skepticism is on sustainability because in the end, that is what eventually hurts the city and thus the homeowners. There is a pretty long list of splash projects around the country that have left cities with a ton of related above and below ground infrastructure to maintain without the corresponding necessary property tax base to pay for it all as time roll forward.
 
AuH2O

AuH2O

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Sep 7, 2013
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aeroclone said:
There is absolutely a market for things like this in the burbs. Places like P&L are big draws for tourists and downtown residents, but they aren't the typical Saturday night for locals in other parts of the metro. I go out to P&L a couple times a year when I am downtown for an event at Sprint Center. But the other 360ish days a year if I want to go out and do something I'm not dragging myself down there. Build this thing to the proper scale of the market it will serve and it will do well.
Click to expand...
I think the point is that even a place like P&L needs events to drive business. If you are depending significantly on the businesses themselves to be a magnet, it's going to be a tough go. It will depend on what type of events they can handle and schedule. I know they mention the music venue, but based on the size I don't think they will have tons of shows that are going to drive lots of business. If they can keep a steady stream of other types of events scheduled it might work out well.
 
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