*Updated* MN advancing law that would ban the requirement of HOAs for new developments. Iowa does the opposite.

[KennyPratt42]

Weird question, but do people have community pools without HOAs? I don't have one in my subdivision, but I'm just curious about that would work.

Are there property managers that require dues for maintenance, insurance, etc? I started trying to figure out how a non-HOA pool would be possible, and the number of roadblocks I came up with were plentiful. I feel like I'm overlooking an obvious solution.

Your option outside an HOA would be some type of pool club/non-profit organization. Presumably your subdivision doesn't have any common land since there is no HOA so a pool club would need to buy or be given land by one of the owners in the subdivision. Anyone that wanted to be a part of the club would need to contribute initial money for the potential land purchase and pool & other related construction. Then they could collect monthly or annual dues to cover maintenance, upkeep, and insurance. It could either be managed by the members of the club in whatever structure they set up or the management could be hired out to a property management company.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

I feel out of place in this conversation. Our HOA dues cover what they are supposed to (park maintenance, garbage pick up, wastewater, snow removal) and doesn't infringe on our rights. There are some minor restrictions to prevent someone painting their house bright pink or something, but I've never had an issue with getting any construction or home repair approved easily.

 

[KennyPratt42]

Most recent numbers I've seen are as of 2023 the effective property tax rate of owner-occupied housing in Minnesota is 1.04% and Iowa is 1.43%. Now there can obviously be differences between counties and municipalities in either state.

 

[CY88CE11]

Storm water runoff eventually gets to a public water body, so it does affect everyone in a community. I'm not sure MN can handle this issue but Iowa cannot. Before you mention " high property taxes" I'll remind you my property taxes in MN are 50% *lower* percentage-wise than my house in Iowa.

I'm not going to mention high property taxes, and I'm not taking a position. I'm just clarifying how it currently works. There will absolutely be people that complain about any increase in taxes, no matter how logical the reason and no matter how we compare to other areas.

 

[CY88CE11]

Cities should 100% be responsible for this…for ownership, maintenance, and repairs of such land. What you’re suggesting (I think) is that there could be land that is the HOA’s responsibility, but there is no one set up to maintain that land…and no funds to do it. Then if there is a problem, all members of the HOA would be approached with a bill for repairs. No way. Let the city do it. That’s what property taxes are for…that’s why city managers have jobs. If they need to raise taxes, so be it.

I don't disagree. Just explaining what the current practice is.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Your option outside an HOA would be some type of pool club/non-profit organization. Presumably your subdivision doesn't have any common land since there is no HOA so a pool club would need to buy or be given land by one of the owners in the subdivision. Anyone that wanted to be a part of the club would need to contribute initial money for the potential land purchase and pool & other related construction. Then they could collect monthly or annual dues to cover maintenance, upkeep, and insurance. It could either be managed by the members of the club in whatever structure they set up or the management could be hired out to a property management company.

Thanks. That was sort of how I imagined it would have to work. I can't imagine that keeping non-paying members out of the community pool would be very enforceable without a staff of some sort.

 

[CivEFootball]

Weird question, but do people have community pools without HOAs? I don't have one in my subdivision, but I'm just curious about that would work.

Are there property managers that require dues for maintenance, insurance, etc? I started trying to figure out how a non-HOA pool would be possible, and the number of roadblocks I came up with were plentiful. I feel like I'm overlooking an obvious solution.

A members only club would be one way to do it. So each member has a stake and pays in.

 

[TrailCy]

I don't disagree. Just explaining what the current practice is.

Understood. My whole post is stating MN has lower taxes AND cities maintain storm water ponds. I know how Iowa does and I'm suggesting that there are better ways

 

[KennyPratt42]

Thanks. That was sort of how I imagined it would have to work. I can't imagine that keeping non-paying members out of the community pool would be very enforceable without a staff of some sort.

You'd have to have a fence that prevents access for insurance purposes anyway, so you would just have a gate with a key card or code based lock.

 

[aauummm]

We bought a house in a Des Moines suburb that was in an HOA, however there was no board or dues or anything, just building and lot restrictions that are found in most building and zoning codes. The covenants stipulated that the HOA would expire in 30 years unless the owners got together and and voted to extend it for another 30 years. The 30 years were up five years after we bought and no one even knew about the HOA or the extension. I sure didn't say anything and it just quietly expired.

Even though the HOA long had expired, upon coming back from a vacation we found that the subdivision ornamental entrance fencing, signage, pillars, etc. had all been replaced by a new, upgraded entrance. Never heard a word about it and I still wonder who did it.

 

[CY88CE11]

Understood. My whole post is stating MN has lower taxes AND cities maintain storm water ponds. I know how Iowa does and I'm suggesting that there are better ways

The state also recently passed a bill to limit property taxes growth to 2% each year, so a large-scale change like this would somewhat significantly stretch cities pretty thin by adding more work without adding much, if any, money to work with. I know where I was working, there was one person doing all stormwater inspections. Adding detention basin inspections to that role would require another full time person in a similar role. It would also mean a new team of public works employees focusing solely on basin maintenance for the city, plus new equipment for said work. This is all without any additional funds to work with.

Again, cities are better equipped to handle this work than random groups of citizens, but it's not as easy as flipping a switch.

 

[BCClone]

We bought a house in a Des Moines suburb that was in an HOA, however there was no board or dues or anything, just building and lot restrictions that are found in most building and zoning codes. The covenants stipulated that the HOA would expire in 30 years unless the owners got together and and voted to extend it for another 30 years. The 30 years were up five years after we bought and no one even knew about the HOA or the extension. I sure didn't say anything and it just quietly expired.

Even though the HOA long had expired, upon coming back from a vacation we found that the subdivision ornamental entrance fencing, signage, pillars, etc. had all been replaced by a new, upgraded entrance. Never heard a word about it and I still wonder who did it.

Some can be good though. Know a guy who was in a similar thing. No dues and only for covenants. It expired and no one knew. Then a double wide showed up. They tried to fight it but since it expired that guy was fine to drop his trailer house on the one open lot.

 

[NWICY]

See I have small kids and I can’t see past the neighbors big *ss RV which means people driving past from the west can’t see my driveway. I’m always outside with my kids but everyone knows it doesn’t take long for a determined toddler to get away from a parent. I wish the HOA would enforce no parking your twice a year used items in your driveway or on the streets. Don’t give a **** about your house color or your landscaping but the RV is a safety issue. It’s not even just there for a couple days before and after a trip, the damn thing never leaves their driveway.

Your just jealous that you don't have a RV.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

The state also recently passed a bill to limit property taxes growth to 2% each year, so a large-scale change like this would somewhat significantly stretch cities pretty thin by adding more work without adding much, if any, money to work with. I know where I was working, there was one person doing all stormwater inspections. Adding detention basin inspections to that role would require another full time person in a similar role. It would also mean a new team of public works employees focusing solely on basin maintenance for the city, plus new equipment for said work. This is all without any additional funds to work with.

Again, cities are better equipped to handle this work than random groups of citizens, but it's not as easy as flipping a switch.

I mean, to be fair, I think you’re looking at it from the perspective of responsibilities being transferred from one person to another. If you look at it as things that have not been getting done at all…and they really should be (and that the cities should have never abdicated responsibility in the first place), the pressure is somewhat less daunting. They need to get it done, but it’s not like if it takes them 5 years to get to a particular ditch it was going to get done earlier under the current arrangement, right?

 

[CY88CE11]

I mean, to be fair, I think you’re looking at it from the perspective of responsibilities being transferred from one person to another. If you look at it as things that have not been getting done at all…and they really should be (and that the cities should have never abdicated responsibility in the first place), the pressure is somewhat less daunting. They need to get it done, but it’s not like if it takes them 5 years to get to a particular ditch it was going to get done earlier under the current arrangement, right?

No, but the money and employee time still have to come from somewhere. If you don't add someone and add funds, you have to remove tasks from the employee and funds from other projects.

 

[aauummm]

Some can be good though. Know a guy who was in a similar thing. No dues and only for covenants. It expired and no one knew. Then a double wide showed up. They tried to fight it but since it expired that guy was fine to drop his trailer house on the one open lot.

I guess we were lucky, well before the HOA had expired the subdivision had all of the lots built on. That may have been because all of the houses were built by the one developer who owned the whole subdivision. Hubbell was the owner/builder/developer from start to finish.

 

[TrailCy]

We bought a house in a Des Moines suburb that was in an HOA, however there was no board or dues or anything, just building and lot restrictions that are found in most building and zoning codes. The covenants stipulated that the HOA would expire in 30 years unless the owners got together and and voted to extend it for another 30 years. The 30 years were up five years after we bought and no one even knew about the HOA or the extension. I sure didn't say anything and it just quietly expired.

Even though the HOA long had expired, upon coming back from a vacation we found that the subdivision ornamental entrance fencing, signage, pillars, etc. had all been replaced by a new, upgraded entrance. Never heard a word about it and I still wonder who did it.

This is why storm water ponds under HOA ownership is a bad idea. HOAs can sunset, and then the land is owned by a non-existent entity. If work needs to be done the city will go in and do it anyway, so you're creating a problem for the future with almost no benefit.

 

[BCClone]

This is why storm water ponds under HOA ownership is a bad idea. HOAs can sunset, and then the land is owned by a non-existent entity. If work needs to be done the city will go in and do it anyway, so you're creating a problem for the future with almost no benefit.

Ok, storm water ponds, are they just a pool of rain runoff?

 

[cowgirl836]

I feel out of place in this conversation. Our HOA dues cover what they are supposed to (park maintenance, garbage pick up, wastewater, snow removal) and doesn't infringe on our rights. There are some minor restrictions to prevent someone painting their house bright pink or something, but I've never had an issue with getting any construction or home repair approved easily.

Ours is only $25 a year. It doesn't cover the park or any of those other things you mention. It's dog breed and architectural restrictions, bans on chickens, signage (that they pick and choose how to enforce), restrictions on things like rvs/trailers, fences, pools.

 

[TrailCy]

No, but the money and employee time still have to come from somewhere. If you don't add someone and add funds, you have to remove tasks from the employee and funds from other projects

The city has an easement to maintain it if the HOA does not, correct? So they're still ultimately responsible for it anyway. Also, if professional city staff cannot manage "maintenance" how can a volunteer group of non-professionals? What specific "maintenance" needs to be done by a city on a regular basis that would require hiring more staff? You either have trash in the outlet or there are significant grading concerns. If there are significant grading concerns Karen at the HOA is wholly unqualified to manage the work.