John Deere as corporate punching bag

[BCClone]

Why should it come from the employees? There's plenty of margin at the top to give back from. It's already plain as day wages haven't increased with inflation for 30+ years.

I'm my case I don't get a pension and I'm independent so all costs are my burden. They aren't paying well enough to offset the difference.

You can cut the CEOs wage to nothing, how much will that 30MM increase employee wages. The issue out there is maximizing stock prices, you can’t maximize them and have large wage increases. So which do you prefer, then getting pay increases or you having a better 401k? It’s going to hit one or the other unfortunately.

 

[spierceisu]

Because we have an entire economy built on debt.

Agreed on this. So many people are maxed out on payments so they can have their shiny new cars and very expensive houses and huge credit card debt. I wonder how many people even make the payments, but they are not building wealth at all. You can say all you want about cooperate greed, but personal greed is a part of things too.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I don't agree a lot with what Deere is doing right now, but the products moving to Mexico are pretty simple to make and not big profit boosters to Deere. It's similar to automotive moving low cost/low margin cars to be manufactured in Mexico while manufacturing the larger SUVs/higher margin products in the US/Canada. The Mexico thing is a bit blown out of proportion in my opinion.

FIFY

I agree that it's not some huge deal but I think a lot of the answers to this countries economic issues lie in manufacturing because I believe it's how this countries economy came to be great. When something that is bought by American's is manufactured in America that dollar never leaves and we've allowed a lot of dollars to leave and other dollars have left via strengthening of others manufacturing base not to mention a whole lot of stolen IP. Now we want to go in a direction with energy that, at this point, will be heavily supported by offshore manufacturing.

I'm as guilty as the next person of buying whatever has the best value regardless of where it was made so I'm not on some high horse but it gets old hearing about this stuff from every policy maker and almost non of it being addressed.

 

[BCClone]

Agreed on this. So many people are maxed out on payments so they can have their shiny new cars and very expensive houses and huge credit card debt. I wonder how many people even make the payments, but they are not building wealth at all. You can say all you want about cooperate greed, but personal greed is a part of things too.

Think about the house you grew up in and what that is now. Many would be called starter homes.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

You can cut the CEOs wage to nothing, how much will that 30MM increase employee wages. The issue out there is maximizing stock prices, you can’t maximize them and have large wage increases. So which do you prefer, then getting pay increases or you having a better 401k? It’s going to hit one or the other unfortunately.

I prefer not having to maximize them. Everyone can be just fine with 2% growth annually. It's greed that has us here.

 

[BCClone]

I prefer not having to maximize them. Everyone can be just fine with 2% growth annually. It's greed that has us here.

I think you will be in the slim minority.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Agreed on this. So many people are maxed out on payments so they can have their shiny new cars and very expensive houses and huge credit card debt. I wonder how many people even make the payments, but they are not building wealth at all. You can say all you want about cooperate greed, but personal greed is a part of things too.

While I agree generally, you have no other option in housing right now, again, because we've somehow allowed it to be this way. Somehow we've allowed a whole lot of investment buying in the housing market (I'm not talking about the guy who owns a dozen rentals in DSM here) all while we aren't supplying enough new. If those guys want to invest, they can build spec and sell it to individuals/families and then they're out of that property.

Otherwise yeah, you can basically finance anything at "0%." Hell, I do it. Everything has a payment plan option anymore and we have such a cash depleted society that I don't know how you ever get out of it without going full-on Dave Ramsey.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

Corporates run this country unfortunately. I’m sure they will announce stock buy backs later this year to keep things juiced while they layoff thousands and move production to India.

Fixed it for all my Wells Fargo friends.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I prefer not having to maximize them. Everyone can be just fine with 2% growth annually. It's greed that has us here.

Then why would you even be in the market and take on the risk? You can get far better investments at zero risk right now that aren't effecting any shareholder or employee.

I suspect you would not, indeed, be happy with that.

 

[spierceisu]

I know CEOs get paid a lot, but they are just wired differently. The high up executives I have seen juggle so many things at once and I have no idea how they can keep it all straight. They also are always on the clock. Many of them are working constantly through family functions and I'm sure the stress is super high. Not arguing that they are not overpaid, but I'm sure if the roles were reversed, many people would not be able to do their job, and the same goes the other way. I also feel that many professional athletes and celebrities are overpaid, but not as many are saying it is greed and say they should get paid if they can. I don't see people saying Lebron or Mahomes should take a huge paycut because they are greedy. Just throwing some thoughts out there.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Credit cards are the worst thing ever invented. Well, outside of social media.

I think at their inception they were great. They provided a quick transaction with protection for buyer and seller. Then they turned into a demand generator and have gone bananas since.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

I know CEOs get paid a lot, but they are just wired differently. The high up executives I have seen juggle so many things at once and I have no idea how they can keep it all straight. They also are always on the clock. Many of them are working constantly through family functions and I'm sure the stress is super high. Not arguing that they are not overpaid, but I'm sure if the roles were reversed, many people would not be able to do their job, and the same goes the other way. I also feel that many professional athletes and celebrities are overpaid, but not as many are saying it is greed and say they should get paid if they can. I don't see people saying Lebron or Mahomes should take a huge paycut because they are greedy. Just throwing some thoughts out there.

I would be a crappy CEO for 1 year and then jump with my golden parachute.

 

[trevn]

A question for general curiosity, would you be willing to have your 401k return cut 3% annually if 3% went to increased wages for the employees of the company your 401k was invested in? Don’t give me that won’t ever happen response, all you need to answer with is a yes or no.

 

[Pope]

They ripped the bandaid off of Ag engineering pretty quick. Had our meeting on a Monday and I had an email in my inbox by 9AM the next day saying I still had a job. My wife on the other hand has been in limbo since that original email 6 weeks ago or whatever it was. We're sitting here together waiting until the noon deadline passes to see if she's still employed or if I'm going to be her sugar daddy for a while. Deere lost a lot of good people in the last 2 months.

Does that mean if you don't receive the dreaded phone call by noon today, you're one of the survivers?

 

[Tre4ISU]

I know CEOs get paid a lot, but they are just wired differently. The high up executives I have seen juggle so many things at once and I have no idea how they can keep it all straight. They also are always on the clock. Many of them are working constantly through family functions and I'm sure the stress is super high. Not arguing that they are not overpaid, but I'm sure if the roles were reversed, many people would not be able to do their job, and the same goes the other way. I also feel that many professional athletes and celebrities are overpaid, but not as many are saying it is greed and say they should get paid if they can. I don't see people saying Lebron or Mahomes should take a huge paycut because they are greedy. Just throwing some thoughts out there.

I think they're a lot like college football coaches. Sure, there are some grossly over paid but you cannot pay a good one too much so the market is the market. Was Nick Saban overpaid? Kirby Smart? A better example is Matt Campbell or Jim Harbaugh. How much were they worth to their entity? It's tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions long term. So are they greedy? Yeah, maybe they are but it's also very much worth it to that entity.

(For the record I think college sports, while enjoyable, have become a little bit gross in terms of their relation to the University and how they were funded by them for years and now the inflated dollars are wholly sucked up by the AD)

 

[CascadeClone]

A question for general curiosity, would you be willing to have your 401k return cut 3% annually if 3% went to increased wages for the employees of the company your 401k was invested in? Don’t give me that won’t ever happen response, all you need to answer with is a yes or no.

Good hypothetical.

Some of the discussion here is about Deere being managed stupidly. But its evolving into more about shareholders vs workers -- who should get how much of the pie.

Should it be 50/50? 70/30? 90/10? Should it depend on how capital intensive the industry is? How physically grueling the work is? How competitive the industry is, either domestically or globally?

That's really an individual values question, and reasonable people can disagree. I wonder what a broad survey would show?

 

[madguy30]

Agreed on this. So many people are maxed out on payments so they can have their shiny new cars and very expensive houses and huge credit card debt. I wonder how many people even make the payments, but they are not building wealth at all. You can say all you want about cooperate greed, but personal greed is a part of things too.

People don't even know how greedy/wasteful they are in spending. They're just trying to keep up with everyone around them.

Look at subdivisions as a prime example.
One family gets the super overdone clunky adjustable $900 basketball hoop, then in three months there's 4 or 5 more.

Don't get me started on peoples' 'need' to eat out.

 

[bozclone]

I don't know if it is the case with Deere, but the US tariffs on Aluminum and Steel from China are indirectly making a lot of companies move Automotive manufacturing to Mexico. Companies have found a loop hole to avoid the tariffs. They can ship the Chinese Aluminum and Steel into Mexico and then stamp parts in Mexico. The parts are not subject to the same high tariffs, so companies bring the parts into the US and avoid the tariffs. This has caused many parts that were once sourced to US companies to now be sourced to companies in Mexico. This has also caused companies to move operations from the US to Mexico. The cost savings is huge in most cases.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I think you will be in the slim minority.

If you're under 40 I'm not. People who are privileged in this environment are why we're here. They don't care about the little guy. I got mine is their motto.

Then why would you even be in the market and take on the risk? You can get far better investments at zero risk right now that aren't effecting any shareholder or employee.

I suspect you would not, indeed, be happy with that.

I'd be happy with a market that gave everyone what was enough to prosper. Not just the people who are on the gravy train because they were born early enough to get on the train.

 

[swiacy]

People don't even know how greedy/wasteful they are in spending. They're just trying to keep up with everyone around them.

Look at subdivisions as a prime example.
One family gets the super overdone clunky adjustable $900 basketball hoop, then in three months there's 4 or 5 more.

Don't get me started on peoples' 'need' to eat out.

Starbucks Syndrome describes our society. Make your coffee at home for a fraction of a Lattes at Starbucks. Same thing with Smart Water or bottled water of any kind. I’ve never understood the need.