If the B12 remains intact and moves forward

[qwerty]

I didn't read the first 10 pages so this might already be linked. Thamel can suck it too. Get the hell out of here with Boise and San Diego St.

Think big: Here is one way to save the Big 12

For the Big 12 to grow into a vibrant new league for the next generation, the league’s leaders need to resist all of the quick-trigger leadership instincts.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Cyclones1969]

It would, in fact, be better on the field than the PAC and the ACC.

for at least 15 million a team less than any school in that conference will make.

watch what happens to programs in the conference when they’re at even more of a disadvantage. Anyone that thinks this league would have a seat at the table is either delusional, or trying to push an agenda

 

[CYphyllis]

And what I guess I’d say is that we can’t force the Big 10 or Pac 12 to take us. So if they won’t, then we have to make the best of a bad situation. But I understand your point. No matter what, our status is significantly diminished. At the end of the day for me though, I will always love ISU no matter where they land. If it’s not in one of the P4 conferences, I’d prefer to make the best we can of it. The fewer sports we have to cut, the better. The difference between the money in a new Big 12 versus the AAC might be our wrestling and volleyball programs for all we know.

Anyway, I get where you’re coming from.

You're absolutely correct in the fact that ISU can't force anything, but I'd bet everything that Pollard has been working on this exact scenario for over a decade now and I blindly trust the idea that ISU will end up in a better position than a broken B12 under his watch.

It may end up being a naïve stance on my part, but I don't believe there is any other option.

 

[Cyclones1969]

Just to recap this week: Wednesday we were B1G bound according to the mustache; Thursday the PAC was announcing they were expanding (but actually said they weren’t) and then Tech AD gets all diarrhea of the mouth and proclaims an expansion committee has been formed with ISU/KU top dogs; Friday Big 12 is expanding with BYU. What a week. Can the Tech AD just relax?

No, because his job is in jeopardy. His football hires have sucked, and beard left for ut. This goes sideways, he’s out of a job. He may very well be anyway

 

[Cyclones1969]

And what I guess I’d say is that we can’t force the Big 10 or Pac 12 to take us. So if they won’t, then we have to make the best of a bad situation. But I understand your point. No matter what, our status is significantly diminished. At the end of the day for me though, I will always love ISU no matter where they land. If it’s not in one of the P4 conferences, I’d prefer to make the best we can of it. The fewer sports we have to cut, the better. The difference between the money in a new Big 12 versus the AAC might be our wrestling and volleyball programs for all we know.

Anyway, I get where you’re coming from.

There would already be a 20 million dollar hit to TV revenue. There goes your football staff.

Iowa State fans suck at donating as it is. You think they’re going to all of a sudden start donating because we’re playing Cincinnati or central Florida instead of Texas and Oklahoma?

the Iowa game may continue, but only in Iowa city. Yeah that’s going to keep those coffers filled.

 

[Jack Gladney]

There would already be a 20 million dollar hit to TV revenue. There goes your football staff.

Iowa State fans suck at donating as it is. You think they’re going to all of a sudden start donating because we’re playing Cincinnati or central Florida instead of Texas and Oklahoma?

the Iowa game may continue, but only in Iowa city. Yeah that’s going to keep those coffers filled.

I think most of us understand it will be painful. But what is your solution if we can’t get a Big 10 or Pac 12 invite? Bulldoze the Trice to build a new library ala the University of Chicago?

 

[Cyclones1969]

I think most of us understand it will be painful. But what is your solution if we can’t get a Big 10 or Pac 12 invite? Bulldoze the Trice to build a new library ala the University of Chicago?

Sure.

just making sure all the people trying to pretend this is really gonna be ok because we can win in the Mac understand how completely wrong they are.

plus, this game is literally still in the first quarter. Speculating on elevating g5 schools which will ultimately cost 40- 50 million dollars in your athletic budget, isn’t really a choice. It’s an ending

 

[CYphyllis]

My hope going forward is that ISU, KU, KState and OKState find suitable landing spots when this is over - I don't personally give a damn about the other four and I actively wish that Baylor gets ******.

In my perfect situation, ISU snags an invite to the B10 West and sets up an annual OOC football/basketball series with KState.

 

[CyclonimusPrime]

Sure.

just making sure all the people trying to pretend this is really gonna be ok because we can win in the Mac understand how completely wrong they are.

plus, this game is literally still in the first quarter. Speculating on elevating g5 schools which will ultimately cost 40- 50 million dollars in your athletic budget, isn’t really a choice. It’s an ending

First quarter? The PAC12 said no “we don’t want to implode the Big 12”, the B1G and ACC said we need a strong Big 12 (which is code for “it sucks to suck”). You’ve got the Tech AD being vocal. Oliver Luck has been hired as a consultant? It sounds more like we are down 20 late in the third quarter.

 

[Cdiedrick]

Just disband and be done once Texas and OU leave. We are lucky it lasted this long. This conference has been a **** show since it was created, we just didn’t realize it until 15 years after the fact.

 

[JCity]

Sorry, I just don’t agree. They’re not going to jump on the Titanic when it’s sinking just because it’sa bigger ship than the one they are on. And the Big 12 without OU and UT doesn’t have the same same draw. I guess we’ll see if expansion happens, but I’d expect an extension of the GOR to be announced close to the same time the first school is officially accepted. We’ll just have to disagree until then. I hope you’re right. I’d love to be wrong on this one.

15 teams have been reported to have already reached out to the Big 12, disagree if ya want but he is right

 

[JCity]

What's the difference between the B12 adding AAC schools or the AAC adding B12 schools? It's the exact same outcome. There is no middle ground here, you either survive the crisis or you don't.

I hate the fact that the B12 is dead, but it is and there are no paths available to change that. Adding a few schools may make the B12 corpse a better version of any other mid major out there, but it's still a ******* mid major at the end of the day.

The difference is you add the highest value schools available and aren't stuck with the lower value AAC schools. Yes the remaining Big 12 schools wont be making what they have but it would be more than what they would in the AAC.

 

[HouClone]

What's also going to suck besides the lower tv payout is the bowl access. For example, are the Sugar, Alamo, and Houston Bowls going to pull the plug on the new Big 12? Or the Houston Bowl going to be SEC #8 against Big 12 #2? The Independence Bowl going to be one of our top bowls? Ugh.

Somehow someway we have to remain a power conference. We know what the Alliance thinks of the new Big 12 - nothing. Maybe an alliance with the SEC in terms of bowls, voting, and scheduling, a la SEC/Big 12 basketball challenge, is our best shot as cringe worthy as it sounds. They'll want us to release Texas and OU though. But we have a little time. I figure our best leverage will be next Summer after Texas and OU scream to SEC and ESPN to get them out of the Big 12.

 

[Cyclones1969]

First quarter? The PAC12 said no “we don’t want to implode the Big 12”, the B1G and ACC said we need a strong Big 12 (which is code for “it sucks to suck”). You’ve got the Tech AD being vocal. Oliver Luck has been hired as a consultant? It sounds more like we are down 20 late in the third quarter.

I know the media is all over this, because they need to generate clicks. And, of course, the doomsday people, who started at Iowa State offers nothing, are now actively trying to explain how this is actually going to be a good thing, are kind of dominating the conversation on here.


but nothing has changed the fact that the part that needs to happen before anything else, still hasn’t been completed. When that does, then you can panic.

 

[HawaiiClone]

I hope all of the B12 gets placed in other leagues and we have a P4 moving forward, but I doubt that happens from comments from the 3 AD's at the alliance announcement yesterday.

Even if it doesn't, I did find some interesting and positive news about the remaining 8 on a West Virginia B12 board. Keep in mind this is live attendance and not tv ratings but it can be an indicator about positive things regarding the remaining 8 with a BYU, UCF, Cincy, Memphis addition. Interestingly, I bet the ISU growth (along with adding WVU)goes a long ways towards the remaining 8's increase in football. Here is what he posted below. I would think the 4 additions outside of BYU should all be able to increase their football attendance with moving up in a league. I think Houston would increase a lot too but current B12 schools may not want to compete with them at an elevated status.

Could the B12 cut the gap between the ACC & PAC the next contract time? Would this mean a new B12 contract could be more a little better than most are thinking?

This is what the poster found below and I will post the link to the site(hope thats ok).



2019 (Pre-Covid) Football Attendance
Big 12 Average - 47,764
ACC Average - 47,706
Pac12 Average - 45,849
In 2019 the teams in the rebuilt Big 12 combined to average higher fan attendance in football then the ACC or Pac 12.

2019-20 (Pre-Covid) Men's Basketball Attendance
Big 12 Average - 11,022
ACC Average - 10,758
Pac 12 Average - 7,121
In 2019-20 the teams in the rebuilt Big 12 combined to average higher attendance in basketball then the ACC or Pac 12.

Football Attendance Trend (2019 - 2012 - 2005)
Big 12: 47,763 (+3.6%) - 46,090 (+8.9%) - 42,308
ACC: 47,706 (-3.1%) - 49,208 (-1%) - 49,708
Pac 12: 45,849 (-14.2%) - 53,410 (-3.1%) - 55,144
The ACC and Pac 12 have both witnessed a reduction in football attendance over the past 7 years and 14 years. In that same time the teams that would comprise the rebuilt Big 12 have been growing football attendance.

Men's Basketball Attendance Trend (2020 - 2013 - 2006)
Big 12: 11,022 (+4.6%) - 10,536 (12.8%) - 9,338
ACC: 10,759 (-2.4%) - 11,024 (-3.4%) - 11,417
Pac 12: 7,121 (-6.3%) - 7,596 (-1.3%) - 7,692
The ACC and Pac 12 have both witnessed a reduction in men's basketball attendance over the past 7 years and 14 years. In that same time the teams that would comprise the rebuilt Big 12 have been growing attendance.

ATTENDANCE SUMMARY: The teams that would comprise the rebuilt Big 12 averaged more fans at their home games in football and men's basketball in 2019-20 (pre-covid) then the ACC and PAC. Attendance for ACC and PAC games have been declining over the past 14 years, while the teams in the rebuilt Big 12 have been growing their attendance.

AP Top 25 Football Finishes (Last 3 years / 5 years / 10 years)
Big 12: 11 / 17 / 34
ACC: 6 / 15 / 32 (with 2 more teams)
Pac12: 5 / 13 / 34
Over the last 10 years the conferences have all produced a similar number of Top 10 teams. The teams that would comprise the Big 12 have more recent success with more of their teams finishing the season ranked in the last 3 years and 5 years.

AP Top 25 Basketball Finishes (Last 3 years / 5 years / 10 years)
Big 12: 16 / 24 / 42
ACC: 12 / 23 / 49 (with 15 teams)
Pac12: 3 / 7 / 18
Pac 12 basketball has a couple of nice programs but they are not comparable to the ACC or Big 12. The remaining teams in the Big 12 have had a recent basketball resurgence with Baylor, TxTech, Iowa St, KSU, and OK State all having good runs recently to go along with historically consistent success from KU, WVU, and Cinci. The rebuilt Big 12 will remain in the conversation for being the best basketball conference in the country.

SUMMARY: The programs in the Big 12 have recent success and growing attendance. We are surging right now while many of the traditional programs in the PAC and ACC have been fading. The other two conferences have longer traditions (and they have not been picked apart by the SEC/B1G) but the Big 12 has the recent success and momentum to remain relevant and grow. A rebuilt Big 12 could have a very bright future as part of the Power 3.

The Big 12 has a story to sell!

A Rebuilt Big 12 compared to the ACC and PAC

A Rebuilt Big 12 compared to the ACC and PAC

247sports.com

I agree that aside from not having a blue blood, the Big 8 matches up well with the PAC 12 and ACC.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I think most of us understand it will be painful. But what is your solution if we can’t get a Big 10 or Pac 12 invite? Bulldoze the Trice to build a new library ala the University of Chicago?

This is the part people don’t get. Of course we all wanna go to the B1G or Pac. But if it doesn’t happen, we are going to have a good league and do our best. A lot of people here are just waving the white flag and giving up on ISU. Sad honestly.

If the program could reach the heights it’s at now after being historically one of the worst of all time, then we can also compete for - and earn - CFP spots in an expanded playoff that keeps Big 12 access. That means we’re playing relevant football. If we’re honest with ourselves, probably more relevant football than we’ve played any time before 2017 with like 3 exceptions.

 

[Beyerball]

Serious question: What is the draw to wanting BYU? Do we really want them in our conference? They certainly have their views and don't play on Sundays. A trip to Utah sounds nice, but they just seem like the worst to me.

I'll tell you what the draw is. They have national appeal and a national audience. Adding BYU is priority #1.

Not to mention BYU non conf schedule includes several ACC, SEC schools...

Honestly from a football perspective and revenue perspective I think the Big 12 should add BYU and Navy first.

Navy plays ND every single year and will forever. Navy/Army game every year draws 5 Million+

They can throw Navy in the conference for football only. At this point you do whatever you need to do to drive revenue.

 

[BCClone]

I just can’t believe that any school worth having would agree to join without the remaining 8 extending the GOR. Refusing to do so would make it obvious that expansion is a stop gap and the remaining 8 are hoping to jump in 2025. I just don’t see a school agreeing to join without some commitment to longer term stability.

Why nothing happens until the OU UT dust settles. The alliance puts more pressure on SEC, OuT, and ESPN in several ways. Those conferences may want us to survive in order to have another vote to challenge them, or survive enough to hurt the SEC and then absorb.

 

[AuH2O]

Adding Houston would be a mistake unless you go past 12. I'd rather start with BYU and Cincy to get back to 10.

Keeping power out of the state of Texas is a good thing. We already have 3 Texas schools in the Big 12. Adding Houston wouldn't suddenly open up Houston for recruiting.. CMC focuses on the Midwest anyway. Having a road trip to Cincy every other year would probably make Campbell very happy. Would love to snag a couple more Mike Rose's, Joe Scates, Malik Verdon, Dae'Shawn Davis', Jarrod Hufford, etc

Probably a good idea to go the 12. Would rather see UCF and USF get us to 12. UCF is a national brand and both schools REALLY open up Central Florida recruiting, massive alumni networks and the BIG eyeball markets. Do you know how many Midwest transplants spend their retirments in the Orlando and Tampa areas???

After those 4 is where I become less interested in adding schools. If we REALLY want to expand past 12, I'd say Memphis and the military schools would get my vote. Those academies have strong followings, you get Army-Navy as the premier game late in the season to boost the TV demand and

Why people think recreating the Southworst Conference sans the actual good teams is beyond me. The SWC collapsed and died WITH UT and A&M.

Maybe it’s unrelated, other than the PAC and CA you just don’t see big conferences with 4-5 teams clustered in one state. That was a big factor in the collapse of the SWC. They had no national appeal. For those that don’t remember, but between the rampant cheating days of the 80s and the Big 12 Texas was not in the national conversation.

 

[BCClone]

What's the difference between the B12 adding AAC schools or the AAC adding B12 schools? It's the exact same outcome. There is no middle ground here, you either survive the crisis or you don't.

I hate the fact that the B12 is dead, but it is and there are no paths available to change that. Adding a few schools may make the B12 corpse a better version of any other mid major out there, but it's still a ******* mid major at the end of the day.

In your context. Okie state equals temple, ISU equals Tulsa. Huge difference of the b12 adding 1-2 AAC and the opposite.