NCAA- Supreme Court ruling

[Mr Janny]

Going to try this thread outside the cave.

Big decision today. 9-0 against the NCAA.

High court rules against NCAA on compensation

In a ruling that could help push changes in college athletics, the Supreme Court on Monday unanimously sided with a group of former college athletes in a dispute with the NCAA over rules limiting certain compensation.

www.espn.com

If anyone is still wondering how this is all going to end up playing out, here's a quote from the decision:

“The NCAA couches its arguments for not paying student athletes in innocuous labels. But the labels cannot disguise the reality: The NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America. All of the restaurants in a region cannot come together to cut cooks’ wages on the theory that ‘customers prefer’ to eat food from low-paid cooks. Law firms cannot conspire to cabin lawyers’ salaries in the name of providing legal services out of a ‘love of the law.’ Hospitals cannot agree to cap nurses’ income in order to create a ‘purer’ form of helping the sick. News organizations cannot join forces to curtail pay to reporters to preserve a ‘tradition’ of public-minded journalism. Movie studios cannot collude to slash benefits to camera crews to kindle a ‘spirit of amateurism’ in Hollywood.”

Suffice to say, the NCAA model is not long for this world.

 

[JP4CY]

It's past time.

 

[theshadow]

This decision was limited in scope to education-related benefits.

 

[Mr Janny]

This decision was limited in scope to education-related benefits.

Correct, but read what Kavanaugh wrote in the concurring opinion:
"Although the Court does not weigh in on the ultimate legality of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules, the Court’s decision establishes how any such rules should be analyzed going forward...After today’s decision, the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules should receive ordinary ‘rule of reason’ scrutiny under the antitrust laws.”

That's about as clear cut as you can get. The scope of the decision is the flimsiest of straws to grasp at. The SCOTUS is telegraphing what will happen if someone wants to challenge on pay for play.
Effectively the court threw down a "**** around and find out" decree.

 

[JRE1975]

First, I do think it is time for a change, but this is going to get very messy, and I sure hope our media fees and the CFP money is going to be a lot to cover the costs coming.

I don't understand how all this is going to mesh with the requirements of Title IX. The $$ for all athletics is based on football and MBB.

So are all these additional educational benefits go to athletes in the sports that make all the money? Or all they going to go all scholarship athletes? So if a star QB wants his medical school expenses covered when he is done with football, then is a softball player going to be entitled to the same thing?

If it goes to all scholarship athletes, then do the football stars that generate all the revenue then sue because they aren't getting paid in relation to the value they create? Their lawyers will argue that Title IX is the school's problem, not theirs.

It is an interesting time to be an AD!

 

[alarson]

First, I do think it is time for a change, but this is going to get very messy, and I sure hope our media fees and the CFP money is going to be a lot to cover the costs coming.

I don't understand how all this is going to mesh with the requirements of Title IX. The $$ for all athletics is based on football and MBB.

So are all these additional educational benefits go to athletes in the sports that make all the money? Or all they going to go all scholarship athletes? So if a star QB wants his medical school expenses covered when he is done with football, then is a softball player going to be entitled to the same thing?

If it goes to all scholarship athletes, then do the football stars that generate all the revenue then sue because they aren't getting paid in relation to the value they create? Their lawyers will argue that Title IX is the schools problems, not theirs.

It is an interesting time to be an AD!

That's the thing. For all the whining about how they aren't compensated enough, the vast, vast majority of college athletes are compensated far more than their actual market value by the universities.

 

[JM4CY]

This is gonna get so messy. I’m in the something needs to change camp but I am not convinced that this is opening up another Avenue for schools to play dirty in recruiting.

 

[Mr Janny]

I appreciate the concerns that people raise. Some of them are totally valid, but none of them are so earth shattering that it justifies suppressing the free market in this circumstance. Yes, there will be dirty actors. There are dirty actors now. Yes some Olympic sports may end up getting cut. It's not the football/basketball players responsibility to prop up other sports. Figuring out how to pay for it all is the job of the administrators, and they have been able to artificially curb the cost of labor for way too long. Get creative. Innovate. Welcome to the way the rest of the world works

 

[im4cyclones]

The NCAA did this to themselves. Hard to argue for amateurism when coaches make millions and facilities rival those in the professional ranks. They brought on whatever comes next.

 

[theshadow]

State income tax rates will now be a part of the recruiting pitch. That should go over well.

 

[JM4CY]

I appreciate the concerns that people raise. Some of them are totally valid, but none of them are so earth shattering that it justifies suppressing the free market in this circumstance. Yes, there will be dirty actors. There are dirty actors now. Yes some Olympic sports may end up getting cut. It's not the football/basketball players responsibility to prop up other sports. Figuring out how to pay for it all is the job of the administrators, and they have been able to artificially curb the cost of labor for way too long. Get creative. Innovate. Welcome to the way the rest of the world works

Agreed. What needs to be in place is some way for the NCAA to actually hammer schools for not following the rules. It will help so much during this massive transition. And yet we know the NCAA is completely inept at actually enforcing anything. The next few years will be really interesting.

 

[theshadow]

Agreed. What needs to be in place is some way for the NCAA to actually hammer schools for not following the rules. It will help so much during this massive transition. And yet we know the NCAA is completely inept at actually enforcing anything.

Not having subpoena power makes enforcement more difficult.

 

[Mr Janny]

Agreed. What needs to be in place is some way for the NCAA to actually hammer schools for not following the rules. It will help so much during this massive transition. And yet we know the NCAA is completely inept at actually enforcing anything. The next few years will be really interesting.

I'm all for the power 5 breaking away and forming their own league. Set clear rules as little ambiguity as possible, and then enforce them.

 

[Mr Janny]

Not having subpoena power makes enforcement more difficult.

Not only that, but even when they have evidence they're toothless. See the reduction in Penn State penalties. See what they've done about Baylor. See the UNC cheating scandal. See the dragging on of the Sneaker company scandal in basketball. Schools know they can lawyer up and the NCAA will knuckle under to avoid the possibility of a judge ruling against them. The NCAA is a corpse that doesn't know it's dead yet.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

I appreciate the concerns that people raise. Some of them are totally valid, but none of them are so earth shattering that it justifies suppressing the free market in this circumstance. Yes, there will be dirty actors. There are dirty actors now. Yes some Olympic sports may end up getting cut. It's not the football/basketball players responsibility to prop up other sports. Figuring out how to pay for it all is the job of the administrators, and they have been able to artificially curb the cost of labor for way too long. Get creative. Innovate. Welcome to the way the rest of the world works

That's why the simplest way to fix this is just let players get endorsements. An OL isn't gonna make as much as a QB and a women's cross country runner won't get as much as the OL. Everyone is entitled to the free food education housing and whatever small stipend they get.

Beyond that then it's up to the individual players to be good enough and a big enough name to be marketable.

 

[CNECloneFan]

I am no fan of the NCAA, but I do fear the unintended consequences of this. As bad as the wealth and talent gap is now, it will only get worse if they officially open up the cash floodgates.

 

[CascadeClone]

Yeah the Title 9 and the olympic vs revenue sports are really difficult circles to square. Will it be OK for Alabama to pay their starting QB $500k while giving the entire womens rowing team one $50 gift certificate for Shoneys? Even if the Supremes decide it is OK, the optics are lousy. Admittedly, for the SEC those optics are not a concern lol.

The other thing is the whole concept of amateurism. People competing for sport and not professionally. The olympics dumped that req a while ago already. That's pretty much dead and over then, right?

 

[Mr Janny]

Yeah the Title 9 and the olympic vs revenue sports are really difficult circles to square. Will it be OK for Alabama to pay their starting QB $500k while giving the entire womens rowing team one $50 gift certificate for Shoneys? Even if the Supremes decide it is OK, the optics are lousy. Admittedly, for the SEC those optics are not a concern lol.

The other thing is the whole concept of amateurism. People competing for sport and not professionally. The olympics dumped that req a while ago already. That's pretty much dead and over then, right?

Amateurism is nothing but window dressing. Defenders see it as some kind of get out of jail free card. Thankfully, the words of the SCOTUS laid bare exactly how much weight "amateurism" carries.

 

[BMWallace]

The best option to me is for all the student athletes at each school to collectively bargain for revenue shares with the university. And I mean all student athletes, both revenue and Olympic sports. Similar to when Northwestern tried to unionize a few years back, let the schools and athletes negotiate an equitable revenue share.

Ideally, having all of the athletes bargaining together lessens the risk of schools the axing the non-revenue sports as soon as possible. So while that won't mean huge payouts to each athlete, that still leaves open potential NIL earnings and sponsorships for individuals.

 

[Mr Janny]

The best option to me is for all the student athletes at each school to collectively bargain for revenue shares with the university. And I mean all student athletes, both revenue and Olympic sports. Similar to when Northwestern tried to unionize a few years back, let the schools and athletes negotiate an equitable revenue share.

Ideally, having all of the athletes bargaining together lessens the risk of schools the axing the non-revenue sports as soon as possible. So while that won't mean huge payouts to each athlete, that still leaves open potential NIL earnings and sponsorships for individuals.

I was reading about that exact thing, and how in retrospect, the NCAA should have allowed players to unionize because the collectively bargained agreements wouldn't be subject to the antitrust laws that the SCOTUS ruled apply to them, today. Hindsight tho...