Who is ISU true comp in Big 12 MBB and just who do we think we are?
- Thread starter davegilbertson
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What I noticed is KU (5-7), WVU (2-4) and ISU (1-3) are only teams with below .500 records in Sweet 16s. Other teams advance to Elite 8 more frequently when presented the opportunity.
Maybe you should look up some of the talent McDermott had late in his tenure.
Prohm had 2 big 12 championships and McDermott had 0 big 12 tourney wins and beat 1 ranked team in 5 years.
I agree the comparison is not close.
Prohm rode Freddy’s work in the ground. He’s unemployed. McDermott is a successful P6 coach.
Ok...Johnny did not bring ISU even close to the top in the Big 8. Finished above .500 2 times in conference in 14 years and was barely a .500 coach. He wouldn’t have lasted past his 4th year if he was coaching in today’s game. I get his teams were entertaining but to say he had ISU close to the top tier in the Big 8 is a joke. His teams were very much second or third tier in the conference.
Yep! Guy simply could not win a road game to save his life.
His larger than life character and the freak ability his teams had to protect Hilton is why he is a legend.
But he is also a great reminder that the right person at the right time is good enough for us Fanatics to show up at every game.
Johnny wouldn't last 4 years......? He went from nothing to post season in year 4......to the tourney in year 5. Were we ever a threat to win the conference.....no. He couldn't win on the road. But he wasn't a bottom scraper. So now I guess I need to amend my thinking. Greg McDermott wasn't the only aberration in two decades....................he was the only aberration in the last 4 decades. Because everyone else during that period in four year span sniffed some type of success be it in the conference tourney....a winning record and/or an NCAA invite.
Johnny is a legend because he started the modern era of ISU bball. Gave our program an identity (Hilton Magic) and turned around a program that hadn't done anything in 40 years. Similar to DMac in that there's more nuance to their legacies beyond W/L
For whatever reason McD failed here. He did great at UNI. He has done very well at Creighton. He did an awful job at ISU. This just can’t be argued. For 40 years he is the only coach that couldn’t muster even a decent season. It’s pretty clear he learned a lot during his time at ISU and got better.
9, 10, 13, 16. That’s Johnny’s wins in his first 4 years and his teams averaged 67 ppg in that time frame. He made the NCAAs in year 5. McDermott teams had 15, 14, 15, 15 wins and averaged 65 ppg was going to get canned. Johnny would not have lasted past year 4 and I’ll stand by that comment.
And McDermott. So considering2/4 coaches skewed it, were they really skewed
McDermott had brackens and a freaking lottery pick and second round pick on the same team. How in the world do you think he had low talent?
I don't think its that tough. While we are second in championships, that doesn't show the whole story. ISU has only had 9 teams finish in the top half of the conference in the history of the Big 12. Sure they won 2 Big 12 titles at the turn of the century, and won a handful of tournament championships this past decade, but ISU has pretty much never been a real contender to win the Big 12 regular season on a regular basis. It's not like ISU has a bunch of second place finishes to Kansas, in fact ISU teams, since the creation of the Big 12, have finished an average 7th in the league. Let's not turn into Nebraska and live in the glory days of ISU basketball (which isn't nearly as good as the glory days of Nebraska anyway). We need to realize where ISU is as a program, which is middle of the pack in the Big 12. We can always hope TJ can catch lightning in a bottle like Fred did, but I don't know if thats possible. Hopefully he can just win at Hilton for a start.
Speaking of not being able to win on the road. Feel like we had multi year stretches of not winning on the road at some point in the McD era.
It's tough because if ISU isn't 2nd or 3rd who is second or third? Teams with less Big 12 hardware.
The sad truth is 4-5 programs are probably all in the 4th/5th spot and nobody is really close to #1.
If texas or wvu or ksu or okstate or ou were really so much better than isu they wouldn't have less hardware than isu.
We are high high and low low. OU, WVU and Texas are easily more consistent, but for long stretches they couldnt challenge KU the way ISU has in two eras.
Ksu and OK state are more like ISU with the inconsistency but same thing in that not quite as much hardware.
Baylor is #2 now but for first half of big 12 history didn't do anything.
As a fan base, we probably put too much emphasis on B12 tournament championships. They sure make for a fun few days though.
Tournament championships don’t really mean anything other than you got hot for a week at the end of the year.
WV has been in the league less than half the time as ISU.
You can argue ISU challenged Kansas for basically 5 years in the last 25 years. They won 2 Big 12 regular seasons and were within 3 games of Kansas 3 other times. You are vastly overrating how good Iowa State has been in conference.
