Steve Prohm says he'll meet with Jamie Pollard to discuss his future next week...

[LincolnSwinger]

I think you are getting your understanding of "buyout" mixed up.

Prohm signed a contract for a period of time. If we fire him before that contract is up, we essentially owe him the balance of the money owed to him on that contract. He doesn't need to demand it, it's owed to him. It's not really a buyout, in layman's terms, we are paying him money owed from the contract agreement.

A "buyout" is usually what is meant when another institution comes to hire away your coach, the other institution pays a set some of money (which is in the contract) to the institution that currently employs the coach for the privilege of hiring away your coach. You might call it a deterrent for someone stealing your coach, or an insurance policy that helps you hire your next coach.

Yeah, I should have used "severance" instead of buyout. Yes, we contractually owe Prohm $5 million because we're firing him. We all wish we were getting a buyout. I'm clear on that.

My larger, big-picture point is if I'm an AD, I try to take advantage of every coach's expectation that they'll be reasonably successful so that if I have to fire him/her after going 0-fer in conference, it doesn't cost the AD $5 million. Put another way, I'm surprised severance clauses aren't variable/success-based. Seems like a natural evolution in these negotiations. If I had to bet, it's because the AD is also overconfident in the hire.

 

[Clonefan32]

Yeah, Steve has no incentive to negotiate. Especially because all these contracts have clauses that lower the money owed once you find a new job. Why give up less before you need to. He is entitled to the money in the contract.

When your bargaining power is "I'm going make you continue to be a Big 12 CBB coach who makes 2.5 million dollars a year" you may be in trouble.

 

[Thorongil Clone]

It will be a zoo after the announcement too.

And it will be a zoo when the replacement is announced.

In short. CF is always a zoo.

 

[CycloneErik]

Personally, I don't see how it "puts us behind" in a search. Starting the search officially today vs. officially Monday, in my opinion matters roughly zero. Most of the coaches we would be targeting to hire are still playing games right now.

Some might be playing in the NCAA tournament. I don't think the hiring barrage is going to start for at least 2-3 weeks.

Conversely, we hired Prohm in June, because Fred didn't leave for the NBA until then. This hiring calendar will suit Iowa State MUCH BETTER than it did the last time.

That timeframe is really overblown. We went cheap. If we were willing to pay, we could have done better with the program in the excellent shape it was in.

 

[BACyclone]

Yeah, I should have used "severance" instead of buyout. Yes, we contractually owe Prohm $5 million because we're firing him. We all wish we were getting a buyout. I'm clear on that.

My larger, big-picture point is if I'm an AD, I try to take advantage of every coach's expectation that they'll be reasonably successful so that if I have to fire him/her after going 0-fer in conference, it doesn't cost the AD $5 million. Put another way, I'm surprised severance clauses aren't variable/success-based. Seems like a natural evolution in these negotiations. If I had to bet, it's because the AD is also overconfident in the hire.

Clear.

I think the problem with your performance-based severance clause strategy is that the coach has to sign it...and it's not something that any other institution does wit their coach.

I don't think it's overconfidence as much as it would be a competitive disadvantage. You recruit the coach to sign your contract, you give him the market deal.

 

[cyfan92]

$5-$6 million dollars worth of reason why we shouldn't feel too bad to CSP. I don't endorse childish behavior. But public scrutiny comes with the multi-million dollar salary

 

[LincolnSwinger]

That timeframe is really overblown. We went cheap. If we were willing to pay, we could have done better with the program in the excellent shape it was in.

I see this over and over. Willing to pay and ABLE to pay are not the same things. It's not like JP gets to pocket the difference. Hopefully the growth in our AD's revenue provides a larger pool of candidates this time.

 

[CyLyte2]

umm didn’t TJ ride Scott Nagys team at SDSU? I actually think he underachieved there.

Umm no. He was not on Nagys bench. He took over a team with some talent and stayed good. Prohm took over a team loaded with talent and destroyed the program.

 

[Cyched]

Personally, I don't see how it "puts us behind" in a search. Starting the search officially today vs. officially Monday, in my opinion matters roughly zero. Most of the coaches we would be targeting to hire are still playing games right now.

Some might be playing in the NCAA tournament. I don't think the hiring barrage is going to start for at least 2-3 weeks.

Conversely, we hired Prohm in June, because Fred didn't leave for the NBA until then. This hiring calendar will suit Iowa State MUCH BETTER than it did the last time.

Thing is, this might be our first “normal” coaching search timeline in a while.

Fred left & Prohm was hired in June

McD left for Creighton & Fred was hired in late April

Wayne was fired & Greg hired in mid-March (fairly normal, though WM getting canned was somewhat of a surprise)

Larry resigned & Wayne hired in May

Don’t remember exactly when Floyd left for Chicago, but I think Larry may have been hired as late as July.

Too young to remember the Orr/Floyd transition

 

[jsb]

Umm no. He was not on Nagys bench. He took over a team with some talent and stayed good. Prohm took over a team loaded with talent and destroyed the program.

If TJ had stayed at South Dakota state he might have destroyed the program. We don’t know.

 

[BACyclone]

That timeframe is really overblown. We went cheap. If we were willing to pay, we could have done better with the program in the excellent shape it was in.

What's overblown about it? Fred was hired by the Bulls on June 2. Prohm was hired at Iowa State on June 8.

The point being, this is well after the normal (prime?) season of the coaching carousel, which will be late March and April at the latest.

Maybe we "went cheap" with Prohm by not trying to hire a high-major coach currently employed, but the point being is that we were among the last to bite at the proverbial apple.

Also, hiring a high-major coach like that would be well outside the established pattern of coaching hires at Iowa State, just to be clear. The history is the history, whether we like it or not.

 

[cysmiley]

Some of you apparently have no experience in the world of managing employees. Unless absolutely necessary you don't fire your second highest paid employee via a Zoom call or phone call.

Jamie is going to sit down with Prohm in his office and they're going to essentially do a small talk autopsy on the basketball season. Jamie is likely going to give Prohm an opportunity to give his vision for the future.

Once that awkwardness is over Jamie is likely going to say the tribe has spoken and Steve will no longer be employed by Iowa State University. Per the terms of your contract we will be paying your buyout provisions and you will be free to seek other employment (can't remember if he has an offset in his contract).

Then they'll awkwardly shake hands and Steve will thank Jamie for the opportunity to lead the basketball program and apologies it didn't work out.

While fans have spite because of the program results that's still Jamie firing what I would bet is a fairly close friend. He's going to have nothing but respect for the process and allow Prohm to keep his dignity. Anyone suggesting he should do anything different than that is just an ass hole.

agree with all of this except I think the announcement will be WE have agreed a parting is in the interest of ISU and Steve, with the parting arrangement to include monies due to Steve Phrom under his contract.

 

[WhoISthis]

Help me here-- what again is Steve's incentive to negotiate it? Why in the world would he do that?

Listen, if JP is willing to have him back, even if it's for the sole reason he wont pay his full buyout, Prohm will want to be back. The idea that he's itching to put his tail between his legs and sulk back home is comical to me. If Pollard's line is "if you wont reduce the buyout we will bring you back", Steve's line is "I am thankful for that opportunity and ready to get back to work."

The incentive is rooted in not knowing whether you need to come back in order to get paid.

Do you think Prohm, or any coach that’s failed and looking at an even worse roster next year, would leave for 99% of his buyout? How about 95%? 80%?

Where that number stops is dependent of personal criteria. And those without equitable wealth tend to have trouble weighting that criteria. He has a family with input too, with a home base in Kentucky. Say the negotiated buyout costs him some money compared to coaching out his contract, but he gets to expedite his post-ISU career and/or improve his happiness. You don’t think he’d give up some money to improve that? Coaches aren’t just in it only for the money

 

[CyLyte2]

If TJ had stayed at South Dakota state he might have destroyed the program. We don’t know.

He left it as good or better than he found it and left a good coach behind to run it. Steve is leaving a steaming pile for some poor sap to try and fix.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Dude that preceded Smith at Utah State went 16-15, 14-17, and 17-17 for his 3 years. Their longtime successful guy did a couple of 18 win seasons just before that, which was a huge dropoff for him.

That doesn't look to me like Smith walked into something great.

You have convinced me, Smith is better. Now let go of my arm.

 

[WastedTalent]

On the other hand, delaying has some downsides.

Like what?
JP can still talk to candidates.
Players know what's coming
Announcement of the new coach isn't happening in the next 5 days, even if he's fired today.
Current players and recruits shouldn't decide on their future until a new coach is hired. If they leave before, then they were likely leaving no matter what.

 

[Trice]

Clear.

I think the problem with your performance-based severance clause strategy is that the coach has to sign it...and it's not something that any other institution does wit their coach.

I don't think it's overconfidence as much as it would be a competitive disadvantage. You recruit the coach to sign your contract, you give him the market deal.

Yep. It's like how it's become standard to have your coach under contract for four years into the future so they can tell recruits they will be there for the duration, even though it's a transparent sham and everyone knows it. It's dumb and costly and heavily weighted toward coaches, but that's become standard in coaching contracts and there's no going back.

It would take a major reset of the coaching marketplace to rein in coaching contracts. People have been waiting for that for years, assuming all this growth in TV money was a bubble that would inevitably pop. Yet there are no real signs that's going to happen in the foreseeable future.

 

[CycloneErik]

What's overblown about it? Fred was hired by the Bulls on June 2. Prohm was hired at Iowa State on June 8.

The point being, this is well after the normal (prime?) season of the coaching carousel, which will be late March and April at the latest.

Maybe we "went cheap" with Prohm by not trying to hire a high-major coach currently employed, but the point being is that we were among the last to bite at the proverbial apple.

Also, hiring a high-major coach like that would be well outside the established pattern of coaching hires at Iowa State, just to be clear. The history is the history, whether we like it or not.

Coaches still move at that time. What was unclear about what I typed there?
Coaches will make moves to coach a top 10 team and try to take it farther. We aimed instead at TJ and Prohm. There's no "maybe" about whether we went cheap or not. We went cheap instead of aiming higher.

 

[CycloneErik]

You have convinced me, Smith is better. Now let go of my arm.

And the funny thing is, I don't even know for sure if Smith is good.

 

[IASTATE07]

Not even close. TJ worked for four P5 head coaches. Three of them were good at their job! He’s been a head coach at two schools, neither of which he ascended to by being on the bench of they guy who left. Prohm was a hanger on who leveraged Billy Kennedy’s success and Fred’s late departure into a P5 job. Until now, Prohm was one of the luckiest humans alive. His luck has run out.

TJ has been a part of two P5 staffs that never made the NCAA Tournament while he was on staff. Both of those head coaches got fired.