Kirk Ferentz getting sued for being racist

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Gitwitit

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The investigation is NOT DUE PROCESS!
Let’s talk about what due process entails. The term “due process” is a legal term found in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that the government cannot deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” As would be expected, dozens of Supreme Court cases clarify the procedural and substantive elements of “due process.” Notably absent is a due process requirement in the private employment context.

Employers have more flexibility to set parameters for employees than, let’s say, a judge has in a criminal proceeding. And that makes sense. But employers can still face liability for an inadequate investigation as discussed by my colleague Jeff Polsky. Specifically, the standard for investigating harassment claims in California was established in the 1998 case Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hall International, Inc., 1998 Cal. LEXIS 1 (January 5, 1998). The court established employers must simply have a “reasonable and good faith belief” supporting any adverse action taken against an employee. Given that employment lawyers are seeing the number of harassment claims in the workplace rise, employers should also be prepared for increased push back by alleged harassers. Some of the ways employers can protect themselves, their workplaces, and ensure an adequate investigation and their own version of “due process” are found here.
 

Statefan10

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This is why I keep asking @TrianglePlace the question about Brian. More players have come out against Kirk than Brian and Wallace COMBINED but he thinks both those two should be fired and Kirk didn't do anything wrong
And that's the key here. Brian might've been more of an ass out in the open, but Kirk has shown he's been disgusting behind closed doors. So Kirk not only has done things individually, but he's allowed others to go uncontrolled as well. None of this actually surprises me though. If you were such a nice guy, you wouldn't be allowing others to treat your own players that way. Kirk knew about these things because he was doing them too but quietly.
 

jmb

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Let’s talk about what due process entails. The term “due process” is a legal term found in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that the government cannot deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” As would be expected, dozens of Supreme Court cases clarify the procedural and substantive elements of “due process.” Notably absent is a due process requirement in the private employment context.

Employers have more flexibility to set parameters for employees than, let’s say, a judge has in a criminal proceeding. And that makes sense. But employers can still face liability for an inadequate investigation as discussed by my colleague Jeff Polsky. Specifically, the standard for investigating harassment claims in California was established in the 1998 case Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hall International, Inc., 1998 Cal. LEXIS 1 (January 5, 1998). The court established employers must simply have a “reasonable and good faith belief” supporting any adverse action taken against an employee. Given that employment lawyers are seeing the number of harassment claims in the workplace rise, employers should also be prepared for increased push back by alleged harassers. Some of the ways employers can protect themselves, their workplaces, and ensure an adequate investigation and their own version of “due process” are found here.
I am so very glad you finally understand what we have been saying. Good job little buddy. On the other hand there have been enough civil right violations, ada, ferpa, hippa that a federal investigation would not be unwarranted.
 

Statefan10

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Let’s talk about what due process entails. The term “due process” is a legal term found in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that the government cannot deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” As would be expected, dozens of Supreme Court cases clarify the procedural and substantive elements of “due process.” Notably absent is a due process requirement in the private employment context.

Employers have more flexibility to set parameters for employees than, let’s say, a judge has in a criminal proceeding. And that makes sense. But employers can still face liability for an inadequate investigation as discussed by my colleague Jeff Polsky. Specifically, the standard for investigating harassment claims in California was established in the 1998 case Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hall International, Inc., 1998 Cal. LEXIS 1 (January 5, 1998). The court established employers must simply have a “reasonable and good faith belief” supporting any adverse action taken against an employee. Given that employment lawyers are seeing the number of harassment claims in the workplace rise, employers should also be prepared for increased push back by alleged harassers. Some of the ways employers can protect themselves, their workplaces, and ensure an adequate investigation and their own version of “due process” are found here.
You're required under University to uphold the image of the University itself. No doubt you should be treated fairly throughout the process, but when there are 60+ allegations that may or not be able to be verified, you usually do what's best for the University and take care of the problem.
 

JP4CY

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You knew where he lived...that's creepy. Nothing to do with the current situation
I knew he lived somewhere around IA City because the story made news. Much like how Brian's Section 8 made news. I wouldn't know addresses or locations of either case.

You're just really odd with all of this.
 

Statefan10

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He didn't leave Iowa because he wasn't playing lol he left Iowa because in the 4 years he was there he was put in the hospital during a workout, called the N word by their S&C coach, had his grades made public for every teammate / staff member to see, forced to change his hairstyle, and degraded as a human being by his head coach.
Hey @TrianglePlace why did you mark this creative? What was creative about me telling you the story of Flemming's departure? I didn't make anything up here.
 

CyCrazy

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Let’s talk about what due process entails. The term “due process” is a legal term found in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that the government cannot deprive citizens of “life, liberty, or property without due process of law.” As would be expected, dozens of Supreme Court cases clarify the procedural and substantive elements of “due process.” Notably absent is a due process requirement in the private employment context.

Employers have more flexibility to set parameters for employees than, let’s say, a judge has in a criminal proceeding. And that makes sense. But employers can still face liability for an inadequate investigation as discussed by my colleague Jeff Polsky. Specifically, the standard for investigating harassment claims in California was established in the 1998 case Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hall International, Inc., 1998 Cal. LEXIS 1 (January 5, 1998). The court established employers must simply have a “reasonable and good faith belief” supporting any adverse action taken against an employee. Given that employment lawyers are seeing the number of harassment claims in the workplace rise, employers should also be prepared for increased push back by alleged harassers. Some of the ways employers can protect themselves, their workplaces, and ensure an adequate investigation and their own version of “due process” are found here.

Woof
 

JP4CY

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You are like the drunk dude at the party. You literally have the memory of a goldfish. You just were flailling around on the floor talking about due process. Everybody deserves due process except for Doyle, but BF and KF do. Now they don't. You are a shining example of wtf.
Double winner if I could.
 

Gitwitit

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You are like the drunk dude at the party. You literally have the memory of a goldfish. You just were flailling around on the floor talking about due process. Everybody deserves due process except for Doyle, but BF and KF do. Now they don't. You are a shining example of wtf.
They all deserve due process. Anyone ever accused of doing something wrong does. Doyle chose to sign a NDA and accept a payout and that's where it ends for him. Would I have liked to hear his side of the story, sure. Would I like to hear KF's side of the story, sure. Damage is done and I don't know that the football program can ever completely put this behind them while KF and BF are there.
 

Statefan10

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They all deserve due process. Anyone ever accused of doing something wrong does. Doyle chose to sign a NDA and accept a payout and that's where it ends for him. Would I have liked to hear his side of the story, sure. Would I like to hear KF's side of the story, sure. Damage is done and I don't know that the football program can ever completely put this behind them while KF and BF are there.
I think we would ALL like to hear their sides of the story lol. It would be magnificent because they'd get completely dismantled. Doyle signed an NDA because Iowa didn't want him bringing Kirk Barta and Brian down with him. It would've been simple.
 

CyCrazy

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They all deserve due process. Anyone ever accused of doing something wrong does. Doyle chose to sign a NDA and accept a payout and that's where it ends for him. Would I have liked to hear his side of the story, sure. Would I like to hear KF's side of the story, sure. Damage is done and I don't know that the football program can ever completely put this behind them while KF and BF are there.

And you have come full circle. Bravo
 

Gitwitit

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I am so very glad you finally understand what we have been saying. Good job little buddy. On the other hand there have been enough civil right violations, ada, ferpa, hippa that a federal investigation would not be unwarranted.
So you admit due process can exist in the workplace. Why was that so hard?
"Managers usually define due process as the employee's right to be heard through the employers own complaint procedure. However, proactive employers will also incorporate the following principals or rights in their interpretation:

1. The right to appeal disciplinary action.

2. The right to know job expectations and the consequences of not fulfilling those expectations.

3. The right to consistent and predictable management action for the violation of rules.

4. The right to progressive discipline.

So basically you, as an employee, have the right to present your position during any disciplinary action at your job. This is just one of the few rights that you have everyday when you go to work."
 

Gitwitit

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And you have come full circle. Bravo
Due process in the workplace really comes down to having the right to be heard in your own defense. I don't know why that's a difficult concept to grasp. I want KF to have that opportunity to speak out and defend himself but I'm also at the point where no matter what he says, the damage is irreparable.
 

Gitwitit

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You are an idiot.
You said due process doesn't apply because this is not a legal investigation. I've posted two articles referencing due process in the workplace. Why are you struggling with that?
 

CyTwins

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Those were included in the 22 players that came forward about Doyle. That includes Wadley, DJK and an anonymous person too.

22 is obviously enough to justify a forced resignation in your opinion. What number does Kirk have to reach for you to want him out?

Bump for @Gitwitit
 

jmb

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You said due process doesn't apply because this is not a legal investigation. I've posted two articles referencing due process in the workplace. Why are you struggling with that?
Even your very own link said "VERSION" it did not say it is due process. It is not due process of law. Furthermore; the faux investigation is not investigating any of the bulleted items you included. Quit losing this discussion.
 

Statefan10

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Due process in the workplace really comes down to having the right to be heard in your own defense. I don't know why that's a difficult concept to grasp. I want KF to have that opportunity to speak out and defend himself but I'm also at the point where no matter what he says, the damage is irreparable.
The problem with that, is before this blew up in Iowa's face and there was only a couple of allegations out there, Kirk came out in FULL denial mode, claiming he never heard of any of these issues before. Anything he says from this point on in his defense is absolute bulls***.
 

andybernard

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Alright, who cares about the exact definition of due process??

Gitwitit has stated that he now thinks it's best for Iowa football to go forward without KF and BF, which I'm pretty sure is now in agreement with most of us. He changed his mind. It's okay. No need to badger him anymore until he says something stupid again, which will probably be pretty soon. Just be patient.
 
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