Coronavirus Coronavirus: In-Iowa General Discussion (Not Limited)

Status
Not open for further replies.

bawbie

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2006
54,356
47,022
113
Cedar Rapids, IA
That's a horrible way to govern. However, it will be sorted out in court, and properly so. The legal basis for this flows from the Patriot Act and Department of Homeland Security (imagine that, they used it as a way to try to suspend our rights here).
This doesn't sound correct to me. There are no federal restriction under the Patriot Act currently invoked that I have seen. All the restrictions are at the state level under state emergency protection laws.
 

Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
26,770
24,868
113
The right to assemble is the main one. No one ever thought to list "the right to leave your home" or the "right to keep your business open", but those are certainly implied.

Now you're reading implied meanings into the Constitution? Seems that when it comes to the 2nd amendment you don't care much about what the authors implied.
 

Urbandale2013

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,787
5,930
113
30
Urbandale
I think the issue is one that isn’t really addressed. The problem isn’t opening stuff back up to more individual decisions. The problem also isn’t in people not wanting to be forced by money to go back out there. We should be doing both for people. If people are not comfortable going back to work they should be able to remain on unemployment. At the same time we should be allowing limited (more limited than we are IMO) things to start to open.
I’m just going to kind of repost this as This conversation has really devolved over the last few days.

I don’t think we can have a civilized conversation until we all really agree on the basic premise that we are all fighting for the best outcome.

I find it really disheartening that during a time of such crisis we have just proven to be even more divided than we were.
 

cydsho

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
4,368
5,827
113
Omaha, NE
The right to assemble is the main one. No one ever thought to list "the right to leave your home" or the "right to keep your business open", but those are certainly implied.
This is clearly the worst time for civil rights violations.
"People who want to go to Applebys VS State of Iowa" is as great a civil rights case as "Brown VS Topeka Board of Education."
 

dmclone

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2006
21,564
5,915
113
50131
I don't find this political. I understand why some areas want to have tighter lock downs than others. I also understand that people feel different based on their situation. For example, just in my house:

My wife has Lupus. If she gets the virus, it could be deadly. I'm fat, if I get the virus it could be deadly.

My mother is 85. I can't see her.

Both of us can work from home and our companies are not being hurt badly by the virus.

Neither one of us knows the right answer. Do we think Polk County needs to "open up"? We're not sure. Does it mean that Polk county needs to be "locked down"? We're not sure. Everyone is in a different position and the consequences are different for each of them.

I do think simple things like requiring every person to wear a mask every time they go out would be a smart move.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,256
55,148
113
You don't to get to decide what we collectively choose to do.

Well I'll remember this for some other areas when it comes to individual rights.

Should people then be forced to work through this if it's a health concern for them?
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
You can assemble (just not in large groups in person).
You can leave your home - as long as it is in a safe manner
You can keep your business open - as long as it is safe for employees and customers

None of that has changed - just what is safe is different right now

Assemble literally means a group of people. Unless you are some kind of Transformer...
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
I don't find this political. I understand why some areas want to have tighter lock downs than others. I also understand that people feel different based on their situation. For example, just in my house:

My wife has Lupus. If she gets the virus, it could be deadly. I'm fat, if I get the virus it could be deadly.

My mother is 85. I can't see her.

Both of us can work from home and our companies are not being hurt badly by the virus.

Neither one of us knows the right answer. Do we think Polk County needs to "open up"? We're not sure. Does it mean that Polk county needs to be "locked down"? We're not sure. Everyone is in a different position and the consequences are different for each of them.

I do think simple things like requiring every person to wear a mask every time they go out would be a smart move.

You CAN see your mother, you just choose not to. And I fully respect that choice as it is between you and your mom.
 

PSYclone22

Visual Analytics Mercenary
SuperFanatic
Aug 15, 2012
5,090
3,206
113
Des Moines
Governor's do not get to decide what the law is, particularly in matters pertaining to our basic rights.
The state legislatures (in congruence with governors) DO decide what laws are, and some of those laws provide the governors with powers to make decisions in times of crisis.

An epidemic, for instance.
 

bawbie

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2006
54,356
47,022
113
Cedar Rapids, IA
I don't find this political. I understand why some areas want to have tighter lock downs than others. I also understand that people feel different based on their situation. For example, just in my house:

My wife has Lupus. If she gets the virus, it could be deadly. I'm fat, if I get the virus it could be deadly.

My mother is 85. I can't see her.

Both of us can work from home and our companies are not being hurt badly by the virus.

Neither one of us knows the right answer. Do we think Polk County needs to "open up"? We're not sure. Does it mean that Polk county needs to be "locked down"? We're not sure. Everyone is in a different position and the consequences are different for each of them.

I do think simple things like requiring every person to wear a mask every time they go out would be a smart move.

Thank you for the very rational post. That is very similar to my family situation.

The mask topic is one that has me the most worried. When you look at the 'very vocal minority' that are protesting in person or online, the very concept of wearing a mask is quickly becoming a "partisan" issue - I've seen several interviews / statements where people assert that wearing a mask means you are acquising to the restrictions - it's seen as a vote of approval for the "shut downs". We've seen it from a couple posters in this thread too. That, combined with the inability of leadership to "do what I saw" in terms of mask wearing is very dangerous. We could open more things quicker if everyone agreed to wear masks.
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
Actually, we do. That's why we elect people to represent us in these decision making meetings. We decided who the Governor is that then decides whether businesses should open. If you don't like those choices, then rather than stand around polishing your gun on the sidewalk, get out and vote. Heck, maybe even run for office. That's how we make change in this country. Not with guns and intimidation.

Which side is using their guns and intimidation? It's not the freedom loving people
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
I'm not sure if you are aware, but we have technology now that lets groups of people assemble virtually of almost any size. It's neat, you should try it.

Doesn't matter. The internet doesn't change the Constitution. No matter how much you want it to be
so.

Why not just move to China? I mean they shut it down eventually and you don't have to worry about that pesky C word thing anymore.
 

wxman1

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jul 2, 2008
19,925
16,289
113
Cedar Rapids
During our church small group last night (virtually of course) we had one of the pastors on to ask questions. Of course COVID came up. He basically said the have some plans put together but nothing super solid at this time. When they do open up it will likely be pretty much on a reservation basis for at least a month or so. They don't have a date in mind to start that (at least that he was willing to admit) but it's good to know they have a plan and will not be opening up full blast right away. This is one of the probably two or three largest churches in the CR area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bawbie

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,256
55,148
113
I don't find this political. I understand why some areas want to have tighter lock downs than others. I also understand that people feel different based on their situation. For example, just in my house:

My wife has Lupus. If she gets the virus, it could be deadly. I'm fat, if I get the virus it could be deadly.

My mother is 85. I can't see her.

Both of us can work from home and our companies are not being hurt badly by the virus.

Neither one of us knows the right answer. Do we think Polk County needs to "open up"? We're not sure. Does it mean that Polk county needs to be "locked down"? We're not sure. Everyone is in a different position and the consequences are different for each of them.

I do think simple things like requiring every person to wear a mask every time they go out would be a smart move.

I'm in the same boat re: visiting family. If I want to visit my father, I might need to camp in the yard or something, and just visit from a distance. That would be weird though.

I think reassessing what businesses can be open is important. Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc. have been just as open as ever; there can't be much more risk compared to someone's retail store that's usually not that busy anyway. Curbside pick up and such.

And reassessing and implementing practices for how plants are run would be helpful too.
 

MartyFine

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2009
15,194
24,047
113
Warren Co., IA
If you are truly interested in what is happening then I suggest this article as the best I've found.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/.../is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx

It explains why most show no symptoms while others get really sick. It's really the interaction of SARS-cov-2 with other retroviruses.

And this was a man-made virus...Controversial certainly but this is the hard to ignore truth. And consistent with the first paper from India.

Yes, it was probably the "Christmas gift" referenced by North Korea...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/asia/north-korea-christmas-gift-kim-jong-un-intl-hnk/index.html
 

ArgentCy

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2010
20,405
11,148
113
I agree that the anti-shutdown protestors storming capital buildings with their AR15s are not "freedom loving people"

It was funny how those lawmakers who love to use their so called power while hiding in a capital building see some results of their actions. They needed a pants check, not a temperature check.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.