Is there any reason to not refinance?

Gossamer

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Article I read this morning...


"It’s a bit like the lag that motorists experience in waiting for prices at the gasoline pump to fall after a drop in crude-oil futures prices, says Walt Schmidt, senior vice president for mortgage strategies at FHN Financial.

Typically, 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rates track the 10-year Treasury note but not this time. It’s been a two-step process that’s kept home-loan rates from following the bellwether Treasury yield, which has been more than cut in half, from 1.64% on Feb. 12, to 0.81% Tuesday afternoon, although that was up from Monday’s close of 0.57%.

First, yields on mortgage-backed securities traded in the secondary market have fallen far less than Treasury yields. On top of that, mortgage originators such as banks and other lenders have been even slower to trim the rates they offer prospective borrowers, leaving them far above the MBS market.

According to Mortgage News Daily’s survey, 30-year fixed rate loans Tuesday averaged 3.35%, down from 3.50% in mid-February, but actually up slightly from 3.15% on March 5. For a refinancing to save a homeowner money after closing costs, it typically requires a mortgage-rate reduction of about 75 basis points (three-quarters of a percentage point).

Those who borrowed at rates north of 4% in 2018 and early 2019 might find the interest savings worthwhile, but those with loans in the 3% range may not. To be sure, there are incentives to refinance a home mortgage other than saving on the monthly payment, including paying for home improvements or paying off other debt.

Given where the Treasury market trades, Schmidt says mortgage rates would normally be around 2.50% based on historical averages. But spreads on mortgage-backed securities over Treasuries are much higher than normal at 70 basis points, wrote Thomas Tzitzouris, economist at Strategas Securities, in a client note Monday. That was a level not seen since the “taper tantrum” of 2013, when bond yields shot higher after the Federal Reserve said it would begin to wind down its purchases of Treasury and agency mortgage-backed securities.

At the same time, Schmidt points out, the difference between mortgage-backed securities and the 3.66% rates on average new 30-year fixed-rate home loans posted on Bankrate.com as of Friday were even more out of whack with history. (For students of statistics, the comparison was five standard deviations from the mean of the history of the past five years, he calculates.)

Right now, mortgage lenders may have all the business they can handle. According to the Mortgage Bankers Association’s data released March 4, applications for refinancings were up 224% from a year earlier, and purchase applications were up 10%. Once they catch up with those applications, Schmidt looks for the big originators to start soliciting customers in earnest.

Those home-loan rates also may not help the housing market as it heads into the all-important spring selling season. While a still-strong labor market has meant strong new-home sales and robust demand for a tight supply of existing homes, Schmidt observes the stock market’s swoon may have a negative wealth effect on home buyers. According to Wilshire Associates’ calculations, some $7.1 trillion was sliced from the value of U.S. equities since the market’s peak on Feb. 19, cutting the gain since the November 2016 election by more than half, to $6.5 trillion.

Tzitzouris contends the Fed could help narrow the spread between market yields and what prospective borrowers have to pay by resuming its purchases of mortgage-backed securities. “It would reduce the secondary MBS broad market spread, likely back below 40 basis points, and quickly,” he wrote.

Schmidt doubts that’s about to happen, however. He noted that when Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren Friday suggested buying assets other than Treasuries, it would more likely be corporate securities. Corporate credit has seen strains that haven’t been evident in the mortgage market.

For now, at least, mortgage borrowers aren’t seeing much of a windfall from the plunge in Treasury yields to historic lows, and the Treasury market has already reversed a portion of its rally. Normalcy could return to the credit markets if mortgage spreads contract and if Treasury yields retrace more of their decline."

Write to Randall W. Forsyth at [email protected]
 

Tailg8er

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Reached out to MidwestOne via email & they replied yesterday saying 30 year rate would be 'around' 3.125%. This morning I replied saying I'd like to get started, and the lady says, "Ok, go ahead & fill out an application. The rate will depend on the rate at the time I review, which is currently about 2 weeks out".

I know they're busy, but that was surprising.. Anyway, probably doesn't hurt to apply since I already have an app out with Luana, right? (currently 1 year into a 30 year @ 4.125%)
 

Cytasticlone

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I created a google sheet for deciding whether a refi makes sense. Clone the sheet to your own account and customize the cells in green to match your scenario.

https://tinyurl.com/yxgqx3l3

3.5% is already pretty good. It would probably take a couple years to break even on closing costs, so it depends on how long you plan to stay.

H

Thank you for this. It's perfect for how I'm looking at my situation.
 
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motorcy90

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started the process Monday afternoon but didn't lock the 3.01% at the time now rates are above my current 4.25% damn, will see how this goes for the next few days now. for me USAA is covering everything except for the buy down which is only $1000 but I would be saving over $100 a month on my loan so the payoff was well worth it.
 
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CYdTracked

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Yeah I just found out the same thing today. We called our current lender to get rates to go from a 30 year to 15 year and the best they had without buying down points was 4.125 which isn't worth it when we currently are at 4.3% Asked him why rates went up from the 2.8% we saw earlier this week and he said due to volume they had to increase because they can't process the current workflow they have coming in. So kicking myself for not jumping on it sooner. Going to shop around to some credit unions now that are still around 3% rates and see if we can lock in otherwise may just have to wait it out a bit for the volume to come down so the rates adjust again.
 

motorcy90

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Yeah I just found out the same thing today. We called our current lender to get rates to go from a 30 year to 15 year and the best they had without buying down points was 4.125 which isn't worth it when we currently are at 4.3% Asked him why rates went up from the 2.8% we saw earlier this week and he said due to volume they had to increase because they can't process the current workflow they have coming in. So kicking myself for not jumping on it sooner. Going to shop around to some credit unions now that are still around 3% rates and see if we can lock in otherwise may just have to wait it out a bit for the volume to come down so the rates adjust again.
received the paperwork today finally and still at 3% for 30yrs.
 
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Clonehomer

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Yeah I just found out the same thing today. We called our current lender to get rates to go from a 30 year to 15 year and the best they had without buying down points was 4.125 which isn't worth it when we currently are at 4.3% Asked him why rates went up from the 2.8% we saw earlier this week and he said due to volume they had to increase because they can't process the current workflow they have coming in. So kicking myself for not jumping on it sooner. Going to shop around to some credit unions now that are still around 3% rates and see if we can lock in otherwise may just have to wait it out a bit for the volume to come down so the rates adjust again.

Our credit Union is in the same situation. 30 year is 4% today. The market is going to be down through the summer and there's no way Trump let's those dates rise before the election. So I'm feeling safe that low rates will be back.

We're in a situation that our ARM has 2 years left. I'd like to just lock in a fixed rate even if that means a bump in the rate.
 

Stormwarning

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So I’m an idiot when it comes to this stuff. Don’t pay any attention because i feel overwhelmed because it always feels over my head. Just pay the bills and keep my nose to the grind stone.

I’m about 13 years in on a home loan and just looked at the interest rate. It’s 6.125% and my monthly bill is about $860. Still owe about 70,000 in principle on it. Someone spell it out for me what I could save/ the advantages and disadvantages to trying to refinance. Also what are the steps to it and how much of a pain in the arse is it? Thanks
 

Cyclones01

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So I’m an idiot when it comes to this stuff. Don’t pay any attention because i feel overwhelmed because it always feels over my head. Just pay the bills and keep my nose to the grind stone.

I’m about 13 years in on a home loan and just looked at the interest rate. It’s 6.125% and my monthly bill is about $860. Still owe about 70,000 in principle on it. Someone spell it out for me what I could save/ the advantages and disadvantages to trying to refinance. Also what are the steps to it and how much of a pain in the arse is it? Thanks

Using rough numbers, and assuming you had a 30 year mortgage to begin with, you're likely to save roughly $25k in interest if you refinanced to a 15 year with 3% interest rate (not sure what those rates are at right now). I've never refinanced, so I don't know what all it entails, but I was told by my lender that closing costs would be about $2,000.

I would definitely do it if I were you, especially given your 6.125% interest rate, because your monthly payment should actually go down in addition to shortening the life of your loan.
 

cowgirl836

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So I’m an idiot when it comes to this stuff. Don’t pay any attention because i feel overwhelmed because it always feels over my head. Just pay the bills and keep my nose to the grind stone.

I’m about 13 years in on a home loan and just looked at the interest rate. It’s 6.125% and my monthly bill is about $860. Still owe about 70,000 in principle on it. Someone spell it out for me what I could save/ the advantages and disadvantages to trying to refinance. Also what are the steps to it and how much of a pain in the arse is it? Thanks


https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/refinance-calculator.aspx

try plugging in your numbers here. To me it looks like you have a great case to move to a 15 or even 10 year loan. Like previous poster said, would probably lower your monthly payment AND reduce remaining years on the loan (if you did the 10). IDK the steps though as we haven't gone through it yet.
 

Clonefan94

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I can't give any current info because I am not in finance and my house has been paid off for almost two years now, but here is what I did. We bought on a 30 year loan in 1997. Rates started to fall, but by the time they were low enough to consider a refinancing, we were 5 years in and going to another 30 year saved us monthly, but would be more overall because we paid so much in interest already with little principal. We kept our eye on it and within 6 months, we could get into a 15 year within a few dollars a month of our 30 year, saving us 10 years of payments, so we pulled the trigger on that. Less than a year later the rates dropped again and over all it was feasible to refinance and save more money per month on that 15 year and did it again.

From the numbers we worked out, if you are more than a few years in on a 30 year, the only way to save money in the long run, is to refinance a shorter loan. Again, this was 23 years ago when we first financed our home and rates were much different then, but don't forget what you've already paid to the actual principal of the home and if your goal is to pay down the loan or save a few bucks a month.

As I look back I'm so glad we did what we did. Freeing up that monthly nut has been so much more lucrative 9 years earlier, than would have been just saving a few bucks a month and still owing the bank money every month.
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
The 30 year rate if for a term up to 30 years. You don't have to amortize it over 30 years if you are at 25 left. You tell them to amortize it over 25. We refi'd at 13.5 and we had them term it the same length. Just because it says a certain length, doesn't mean you have to go that long, that is the maximum amount of months/years for that loan rate.
 
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brianhos

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The 30 year rate if for a term up to 30 years. You don't have to amortize it over 30 years if you are at 25 left. You tell them to amortize it over 25. We refi'd at 13.5 and we had them term it the same length. Just because it says a certain length, doesn't mean you have to go that long, that is the maximum amount of months/years for that loan rate.

Term it at 30, and just pay extra. Lowering the term is insane unless you get a lower rate. You never know if you will have troubles a month or two making that payment.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Term it at 30, and just pay extra. Lowering the term is insane unless you get a lower rate. You never know if you will have troubles a month or two making that payment.


That is an option also. I was just pointing out that you don't have to shorten or lengthen your current term.
 

DeereClone

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Term it at 30, and just pay extra. Lowering the term is insane unless you get a lower rate. You never know if you will have troubles a month or two making that payment.

In theory this is right but it’s also how a lot of people never pay off their mortgage or even pay it down a lot. Refi and re-am every few years and all you do is pay front-loaded interest on the loans.
 

ArgentCy

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Interest rates are getting a little screwy out there people. This is a bond bubble so things will move fast. The FED does try to set the short term rates but the market doesn't have to "buy it". And we are starting to see that come into play with this whole REPO crisis. Interest rates should go up during recessions, not down but that was an invention of the Keynesians to try and maniupulate economies. A chart of the US 10-year yield buy help some see what happened this week. Hit the low on Monday. You can find a bunch of these at https://ycharts.com/indicators/30_year_mortgage_rate

upload_2020-3-15_9-23-24.png
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This is the 30-year Mortgage Rate directly. The same but less volatile.

upload_2020-3-15_9-25-48.png
 

ArgentCy

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Those of you who somehow have high rates still and especially those with ARM's absolutely need to refi soon (into a FIXED RATE regardless of what rate you find). If you have been paying close attention and have an already historically low rate, I probably wouldn't try to get in the middle of the rush but that's me. I still have a 4.5% 15 year rate. Probably would think about refi but we are also looking at moving and kinda negates that option.
 

Clonehomer

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Those of you who somehow have high rates still and especially those with ARM's absolutely need to refi soon (into a FIXED RATE regardless of what rate you find). If you have been paying close attention and have an already historically low rate, I probably wouldn't try to get in the middle of the rush but that's me. I still have a 4.5% 15 year rate. Probably would think about refi but we are also looking at moving and kinda negates that option.

I'm still not sure how soon you'll need to do this. Even if there's a vaccine released tomorrow, it's going to take months to years for the economy to come back. Feels like interest rates are going to be low for 6 months at least. And may go even lower if things continue to deteriorate.
 

spinback32

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Mid last week I locked in 2.5% on a 15 year re-fi at Green State.

We were at 3.5% on a 20 year re-fi, with about 16 years left. I went back and forth since we may move within a couple years.

Payment went down a bit, and, if we move before it all evens out, it was worth the $1600 in closing costs to gamble.