Are we being to harsh

[WhoISthis]

I think there are certainly reasons for optimism. Ultimately I'd be surprised this to work out long term, but here are the things I think could be exciting for next season:

1. I do like Bolton. He needs to be off the ball though. He will continue to improve and pick his spots. He had a great no look dump off pass to Conditt in the OSU game that I think shows he's starting to get his legs under him.

2. Young has really impressed me. I've always been skeptical of him because his usage is low, and his rebounding numbers are ally low for a guy effectively playing center. I'm also skeptical of his defense but he's done great switching and guarding on the perimeter the last half of the season.

3. I am excited for Dudley/Blackwell to give us a true stretch 4 type players. I think between the two of them they'll at least be effective.

4. I think Jackson and Grill are starting to get a better feel for the game. They'll be better as juniors but will be effective next season.

Reasons I am still pretty pessimistic about next season:

1. We just don't have any stars on this team currently. I don't see anybody even on the 3rd team all conference. Just having a solid team isn't enough.

2. I've got to see it before I believe it when it comes to any semblance of consistent defense is played.

3. I don't know how much the shooting improves next year.

4. The next good immediately eligible late signee by Prohm will be his first. Don't see that happening.

5. IMO no can't miss defensive guru coach is going to walk into this situation.


The team will be better next year. That said, I don't think it will be enough to satisfy anybody but maybe Jamie and that's a scenario I really hope we don't encounter.

Very nice post.

Don’t forget Johnson as a stretch 4 option! That’s three bigger wings that we’ll be adding, plus a long guard in Walker. That’s huge for Prohm, as these type of versatile, long, athletic players mask his weakness on defense.

Maybe they’ll just be as lost as Zion and Lewis, but I’m optimistic they’ll be better. I think we’ll be improved just from being able to play long, athletic small ball rather than our current conventional lineup that lacks length and ability to cover.

Need another ball handler though!

 

[Frak]

I think there are certainly reasons for optimism. Ultimately I'd be surprised this to work out long term, but here are the things I think could be exciting for next season:

1. I do like Bolton. He needs to be off the ball though. He will continue to improve and pick his spots. He had a great no look dump off pass to Conditt in the OSU game that I think shows he's starting to get his legs under him.

2. Young has really impressed me. I've always been skeptical of him because his usage is low, and his rebounding numbers are ally low for a guy effectively playing center. I'm also skeptical of his defense but he's done great switching and guarding on the perimeter the last half of the season.

3. I am excited for Dudley/Blackwell to give us a true stretch 4 type players. I think between the two of them they'll at least be effective.

4. I think Jackson and Grill are starting to get a better feel for the game. They'll be better as juniors but will be effective next season.

Reasons I am still pretty pessimistic about next season:

1. We just don't have any stars on this team currently. I don't see anybody even on the 3rd team all conference. Just having a solid team isn't enough.

2. I've got to see it before I believe it when it comes to any semblance of consistent defense is played.

3. I don't know how much the shooting improves next year.

4. The next good immediately eligible late signee by Prohm will be his first. Don't see that happening.

5. IMO no can't miss defensive guru coach is going to walk into this situation.


The team will be better next year. That said, I don't think it will be enough to satisfy anybody but maybe Jamie and that's a scenario I really hope we don't encounter.

I think that Bolton is refining his game right now and that should pay dividends. He can be a really good player, but needs to learn to play PG and distribute while still attacking the rim at times. This time without TH should help him for next year. Still, with him and Jackson starting, our guards are going to be small.

Solo and Conditt inside are going to be a nice combo. Solo's main issue is that he is lost on pick and roll and that forces us to switch when he's in. If it weren't for that, he'd be a pretty complete player.

I do think that Johnson and Foster give us a stretch 4 that we've been missing. Foster should be able to back up at the 5 too if we run into foul trouble and Blackwell can play some 4 as well. What they really need is a ball handling PG who can switch Bolton to the 2 at times and then a wing scorer. I really think if they can get those 2, they can be a bubble team. Without that, we are depending on Walker and Dubar to be contributors.

 

[Statefan10]

I think there are certainly reasons for optimism. Ultimately I'd be surprised this to work out long term, but here are the things I think could be exciting for next season:

1. I do like Bolton. He needs to be off the ball though. He will continue to improve and pick his spots. He had a great no look dump off pass to Conditt in the OSU game that I think shows he's starting to get his legs under him.

2. Young has really impressed me. I've always been skeptical of him because his usage is low, and his rebounding numbers are ally low for a guy effectively playing center. I'm also skeptical of his defense but he's done great switching and guarding on the perimeter the last half of the season.

3. I am excited for Dudley/Blackwell to give us a true stretch 4 type players. I think between the two of them they'll at least be effective.

4. I think Jackson and Grill are starting to get a better feel for the game. They'll be better as juniors but will be effective next season.

Reasons I am still pretty pessimistic about next season:

1. We just don't have any stars on this team currently. I don't see anybody even on the 3rd team all conference. Just having a solid team isn't enough.

2. I've got to see it before I believe it when it comes to any semblance of consistent defense is played.

3. I don't know how much the shooting improves next year.

4. The next good immediately eligible late signee by Prohm will be his first. Don't see that happening.

5. IMO no can't miss defensive guru coach is going to walk into this situation.


The team will be better next year. That said, I don't think it will be enough to satisfy anybody but maybe Jamie and that's a scenario I really hope we don't encounter.

Next year we'll need to have a guy that can run the point consistently and can value the ball. That's something we don't have with Halliburton off the floor and something that has killed us in some of these games we've lost. Maybe it's Jackson, who can handle the ball okay but needs more time to develop his decision making, but it could also be Javan Johnson, who although is 6'6" he's mentioned he's played a ton of PG on the scout team and he's done a good job. Getting a JUCO or immediately eligible guy that can run that position would be huge next year though.

Young is going to be our rock next year. He's been it this 2nd half of the year and he'll be fantastic to have his senior year.

The position that we've missed all year long has been that athletic 3-4 guy that can play either position, and can hold his own against other stretch 4 guys. Mike has played that position all year long due to Zion and Terrence not being able to see the floor consistently. Mike hasn't been able to play that position offensively or defensively all year long and it's created matchup problems on both ends of the floor for us. We have 3 guys that will be available at that position next year in Dubar, Blackwell, and Johnson. Foster will also be able to play that position but will do it in a completely different way.

Jackson and Grill are going to be good by the time they're done here. They both seem to work very hard and put in a lot of time out of normal practice hours. Even though Grill's offensive game has yet to turn the corner, he feels like he's the type of guy that won't settle for mediocrity and will put in the time to get better this off season. He knows he has to get better, and I think he will.

Our defense will get better next year. We're constantly playing out of position with our current roster make up and that will all change. Fixing the defense can also sometimes be as easy as getting new guys into the program. Now, I'm not saying we're going to be in the top-25 in that category but I think it will improve immensely next year.

Our shooting will also improve next year as well. Prohm has talked about how Johnson has been a very good shooter in practice and that alone is reason to think we'll be better. Jackson and Bolton both have been pretty solid in the conference this year too. Grill will not be even close to as bad as he has been this year either. Foster is going to give us a true 3pt threat from that position and the simple subtraction of Nixon is going to be wonderful.

 

[Clonefan32]

You are starting to see alot of good coaches around the NCAA who started off poorly figure out their personnel and find a way to win. Mick Cronin at UCLA lost to Hofstra and Cal State Fullerton and now has them atop the Pac 10 and on the bubble. Ed Cooley at Providence lost to Northwestern, Penn, Long Beach State and Charleston. They beat 5 ranked teams in February. Greg Gard at Wisconsin lost to Richmond and New Mexico and have won 6 straight. Good coaches that figured out their teams and how to maximize their potential.

I just don't see that with Steve. Just the same old stuff, game after game.

 

[Statefan10]

You are starting to see alot of good coaches around the NCAA who started off poorly figure out their personnel and find a way to win. Mick Cronin at UCLA lost to Hofstra and Cal State Fullerton and now has them atop the Pac 10 and on the bubble. Ed Cooley at Providence lost to Northwestern, Penn, Long Beach State and Charleston. They beat 5 ranked teams in February. Greg Gard at Wisconsin lost to Richmond and New Mexico and have won 6 straight. Good coaches that figured out their teams and how to maximize their potential.

I just don't see that with Steve. Just the same old stuff, game after game.

Mick Cronin and Greg Gard are some of the best defensive minded coaches in the nation.. Mick and Gard also had rosters that weren't completely turned over from the year before like us. Neither of them lost the talent like we did last year. Wisconsin losing Kobe King was addition by subtraction. It seems like they've rallied together after him leaving the program and he might've been a reason the team wasn't performing well. Providence is a good team this year, probably going to be a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Also, we lost Tyrese. Let's not completely overlook that factor. We lost to FAMU without him for crying out loud lol. Sure we've won a couple of games without him, but there were some winnable games on this schedule and not having him decreased our chances of winning those games.

 

[Clonefan32]

Mick Cronin and Greg Gard are some of the best defensive minded coaches in the nation.. Mick and Gard also had rosters that weren't completely turned over from the year before like us. Neither of them lost the talent like we did last year. Wisconsin losing Kobe King was addition by subtraction. It seems like they've rallied together after him leaving the program and he might've been a reason the team wasn't performing well. Providence is a good team this year, probably going to be a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Also, we lost Tyrese. Let's not completely overlook that factor. We lost to FAMU without him for crying out loud lol. Sure we've won a couple of games without him, but there were some winnable games on this schedule and not having him decreased our chances of winning those games.

I agree that Tyrese's absence is a wild card, and who knows, maybe we had a similar run in us. I guess my point remains that with good coaches while it may take them a while to figure out their team, they eventually do an maximize their potential. UVA is another one that comes to mind. Some rough losses earlier but they've figured it out and are playing well.

 

[jsb]

I agree that Tyrese's absence is a wild card, and who knows, maybe we had a similar run in us. I guess my point remains that with good coaches while it may take them a while to figure out their team, they eventually do an maximize their potential. UVA is another one that comes to mind. Some rough losses earlier but they've figured it out and are playing well.

I think your point is valid. But I also think you have to take into account losing your best player. On a team that wasn’t great before, that does matter.

 

[Cat Stevens]

QUOTE="Statefan10, post: 7051412, member: 41114"]Mick Cronin and Greg Gard are some of the best defensive minded coaches in the nation.. Mick and Gard also had rosters that weren't completely turned over from the year before like us. Neither of them lost the talent like we did last year. Wisconsin losing Kobe King was addition by subtraction. It seems like they've rallied together after him leaving the program and he might've been a reason the team wasn't performing well. Providence is a good team this year, probably going to be a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Also, we lost Tyrese. Let's not completely overlook that factor. We lost to FAMU without him for crying out loud lol. Sure we've won a couple of games without him, but there were some winnable games on this schedule and not having him decreased our chances of winning those games.[/QUOTE]


Jesus, Alford didn’t get fired because UCLA lacked talent.

gard has recruited well, and had players in the system for more than a year or two also.

 

[Halincandenza]

You are starting to see alot of good coaches around the NCAA who started off poorly figure out their personnel and find a way to win. Mick Cronin at UCLA lost to Hofstra and Cal State Fullerton and now has them atop the Pac 10 and on the bubble. Ed Cooley at Providence lost to Northwestern, Penn, Long Beach State and Charleston. They beat 5 ranked teams in February. Greg Gard at Wisconsin lost to Richmond and New Mexico and have won 6 straight. Good coaches that figured out their teams and how to maximize their potential.

I just don't see that with Steve. Just the same old stuff, game after game.

Those teams all have more talent that ISU.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

You are starting to see alot of good coaches around the NCAA who started off poorly figure out their personnel and find a way to win. Mick Cronin at UCLA lost to Hofstra and Cal State Fullerton and now has them atop the Pac 10 and on the bubble. Ed Cooley at Providence lost to Northwestern, Penn, Long Beach State and Charleston. They beat 5 ranked teams in February. Greg Gard at Wisconsin lost to Richmond and New Mexico and have won 6 straight. Good coaches that figured out their teams and how to maximize their potential.

I just don't see that with Steve. Just the same old stuff, game after game.

We don't have the pieces this year, there isn't a magic lineup that CSP can put out there that will solve anything. It's not a mater of pulling strings this year, its a matter of getting some young guys experience and building off of it next year.

 

[WhoISthis]

We don't have the pieces this year, there isn't a magic lineup that CSP can put out there that will solve anything. It's not a mater of pulling strings this year, its a matter of getting some young guys experience and building off of it next year.

Do we have the pieces to beat FAMU and not have historically bad losses?

I’m optimistic things will get better, but the criticism of the level of play is valid. Hiring some help in the form of a defensive assistant would go a long ways to turning things around!

 

[Statefan10]

I agree that Tyrese's absence is a wild card, and who knows, maybe we had a similar run in us. I guess my point remains that with good coaches while it may take them a while to figure out their team, they eventually do an maximize their potential. UVA is another one that comes to mind. Some rough losses earlier but they've figured it out and are playing well.

If you look up and down this roster of players though, you don't have much to work with. We had a PG in Halliburton whose game revolves around setting people up in great positions to score, but we lack the ability at those other guard positions, or at least we did. Bolton's shooting ability has come along nicely as the season has progressed, same with Jackson. How nice would it be if Tyrese were playing now with the way those guys shots have improved? Nixon would rarely see the floor if we had Tyrese right now too. No we wouldn't be a ton better, but I think we'd be on the cusp of the NIT.

The style of offense we run is predicated on moving the ball and finding open shooters, but our roster makeup doesn't allow us to do that, or really anything else. Solomon has been pretty good on the block but Conditt and Mike have struggled greatly in that area, so trying to force feed the post is not really an option. Lewis and Griffin would help in having a more versatile offense with mismatches but neither of them are consistent enough offensively and both are terrible on defense. So our most effective offense is hoping we knock down shots, but when Bolton is playing out of position, Nixon is overall awful, and two freshman are trying to figure everything out, it's not a good recipe.

And although Virginia lost a lot of talent from last year's team.. they're still Virginia, a team who has been consistently one of the best teams in the nation the past half decade or so. They have a ton of talent still and a coach who is probably the best defensive coach in the nation.

 

[clonehoodie]

We play in the Big 12. We may never know how good or bad we really are.

We have to develop talent in both football and basketball. The players just don't get better. They don't get stronger. Then again, in the ISU bball offense, how strong do the players need to be?

 

[Statefan10]

We play in the Big 12. We may never know how good or bad we really are.

We have to develop talent in both football and basketball. The players just don't get better. They don't get stronger. Then again, in the ISU bball offense, how strong do the players need to be?

It depends on what type of player you are. Steph Curry was tiny in college but the way he played and the game he had made him incredibly effective. A guy like Conditt doesn't have to be huge because he's so damn long, but he has to be able to use that length to his advantage on the block, which he is still trying to figure out how to do.

 

[Clonefan32]

Those teams all have more talent that ISU.

Oh I agree with that. And that, of course, leads to a whole different discussion about Steve's culpability in the lack of talent.

Even with a big void of talent, I still don't get the sense we are well coached. Many, many repeated mistakes. Stagnant offense and porous defense. A lack of any real plan. The same players making the same mistakes (i.e., Nixon taking contested 15 footers, Terrence getting blown by on defense, etc.). Talent aside, I don't think he's even maximizing what we are able to put on the floor.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Oh I agree with that. And that, of course, leads to a whole different discussion about Steve's culpability in the lack of talent.

Even with a big void of talent, I still don't get the sense we are well coached. Many, many repeated mistakes. Stagnant offense and porous defense. A lack of any real plan. The same players making the same mistakes (i.e., Nixon taking contested 15 footers, Terrence getting blown by on defense, etc.). Talent aside, I don't think he's even maximizing what we are able to put on the floor.

Except he had recruited a roster that was supposed to be led by THT tyrese George and Zion as foundations


Add cam lard, and solo and this wouldn’t have been the case.

this isn’t a blue blood where were in on elite talent every year.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Oh I agree with that. And that, of course, leads to a whole different discussion about Steve's culpability in the lack of talent.

Even with a big void of talent, I still don't get the sense we are well coached. Many, many repeated mistakes. Stagnant offense and porous defense. A lack of any real plan. The same players making the same mistakes (i.e., Nixon taking contested 15 footers, Terrence getting blown by on defense, etc.). Talent aside, I don't think he's even maximizing what we are able to put on the floor.

Welcome to the world of the one or two and done player.... It's not just an Iowa State issue, a lot of teams are struggling to find the right balance of possible early entrants and 4 year players. Take a look around college hoops, there's a reason why the level of play is low right now and it's not going to get any better. Hell, wait until the G-League starts paying their players more...

 

[Statefan10]

Oh I agree with that. And that, of course, leads to a whole different discussion about Steve's culpability in the lack of talent.

Even with a big void of talent, I still don't get the sense we are well coached. Many, many repeated mistakes. Stagnant offense and porous defense. A lack of any real plan. The same players making the same mistakes (i.e., Nixon taking contested 15 footers, Terrence getting blown by on defense, etc.). Talent aside, I don't think he's even maximizing what we are able to put on the floor.

Guards
Nixon = not good.
Lewis = not good.
Griffin = only a sophomore and could still develop, but not good
Tre Jackson = only a freshman, shows ability on both ends
Grill = only a freshman, shows ability on defense, looks confident on offense but hasn't found his stroke
Bolton = only a sophomore, shows ability on both ends but is playing a bit out of position

Bigs
Solomon = solid. He's been consistent this back half of the year and is a bright spot for next year.
Conditt = only a sophomore, shows tremendous ability on the defensive end, needs to work on not fouling, offensively has a ways to go
Jacobson = not good, for every nice play he turns around and makes a bonehead one.

This team is full of underclassmen who show promise (Griffin I'm not sure), three upperclassmen who are not good at all, and then Solomon. Half this team is essentially unplayable against Big 12 competition but there isn't anyone else to play!

 

[Clonefan32]

Welcome to the world of the one or two and done player.... It's not just an Iowa State issue, a lot of teams are struggling to find the right balance of possible early entrants and 4 year players. Take a look around college hoops, there's a reason why the level of play is low right now and it's not going to get any better. Hell, wait until the G-League starts paying their players more...

To each their own. Seems like other teams have found a way to at least put a competitive product on the floor. But I get it, there's alot of turn over and it's changing the way coaches have to approach their roster makeup.

 

[Clonefan32]

Guards
Nixon = not good.
Lewis = not good.
Griffin = only a sophomore and could still develop, but not good
Tre Jackson = only a freshman, shows ability on both ends
Grill = only a freshman, shows ability on defense, looks confident on offense but hasn't found his stroke
Bolton = only a sophomore, shows ability on both ends but is playing a bit out of position

Bigs
Solomon = solid. He's been consistent this back half of the year and is a bright spot for next year.
Conditt = only a sophomore, shows tremendous ability on the defensive end, needs to work on not fouling, offensively has a ways to go
Jacobson = not good, for every nice play he turns around and makes a bonehead one.

This team is full of underclassmen who show promise (Griffin I'm not sure), three upperclassmen who are not good at all, and then Solomon. Half this team is essentially unplayable against Big 12 competition but there isn't anyone else to play!

I realize at some point you have to have the horses. But I still see issues that I think are a result of being poorly coached. Defense and shot selection to name a few.

But to your point I agree it will all come down to how the young guys are able to develop.