Iowa State Basketball is a Mid-Major Roster

[Legend Hawk]

Garza went from an average post to an all-american in one season. Grill can certainly improve from bad to solid.

LOL, you think that is "typical" development? Sure you can pull a few examples of players improving exponentially. I can also give you 50 examples of typical development for every 1 Allen Iverson or Luka Garza type development.

For instance, Conditt was meh last year, and is meh this year. Lewis has been pretty non existent for 3 years and he was a 4* with a good offer list. Jacobson has been pretty much the same player his entire career. Nixon has regressed at ISU. Young has been the same player for 4 years now. Griffin was a 4* with good offers who hasn't done anything for 2 years.

What Prohm player has really exploded out with great development if they didn't come in gang busters as a Fr. (like THT and Wiggington)? Sure anything is possible, Grill could be the first, but the odds say he won't be.

 

[Statefan10]

LOL, you think that is "typical" development? Sure you can pull a few examples of players improving exponentially. I can also give you 50 examples of typical development for every 1 Allen Iverson or Luka Garza type development.

For instance, Conditt was meh last year, and is meh this year. Lewis has been pretty non existent for 3 years and he was a 4* with a good offer list. Jacobson has been pretty much the same player his entire career. Nixon has regressed at ISU. Young has been the same player for 4 years now. Griffin was a 4* with good offers who hasn't done anything for 2 years.

What Prohm player has really exploded out with great development if they didn't come in gang busters as a Fr. (like THT and Wiggington)? Sure anything is possible, Grill could be the first, but the odds say he won't be.

No it's not typical development. I never said Grill was going to be an all-american lol. I said Grill is an 18 year old freshman who has time to develop and you're basically writing him off already and you're using two other sophomores in favor of your argument, which is also dumb.

Nick Babb is the only player under Prohm that played for 3 years. Solomon and Lewis will be the first to play their entire careers under Prohm. We'll see where Griffin ends up. I don't know if he'll get any better and the 2020 class + the transfer from Troy could eat into his minutes. Conditt is still a work in progress but has a lot of upside and he has two more years and two more off seasons to prove so.

 

[Cydkar]

He likes Fran because he's one of 4 head coaches that text him back

No clue. I just know that he's unfollowable on twitter.

 

[dexterhawk]

Garza went from an average post to an all-american in one season. Grill can certainly improve from bad to solid.

Pretty dumb to try and write the book on a freshman....like you said, they can and usually do, improve.

 

[Statefan10]

Pretty dumb to try and write the book on a freshman....like you said, they can and usually do, improve.

Exactly. And like I said, I don't think Grill will be great. Who knows, he could be. But thinking he's not going to improve at all and will be the same player his junior or senior year is ridiculous. I expect him to be a solid player by the time he's done here.

 

[Legend Hawk]

No it's not typical development. I never said Grill was going to be an all-american lol. I said Grill is an 18 year old freshman who has time to develop and you're basically writing him off already and you're using two other sophomores in favor of your argument, which is also dumb.

Nick Babb is the only player under Prohm that played for 3 years. Solomon and Lewis will be the first to play their entire careers under Prohm. We'll see where Griffin ends up. I don't know if he'll get any better and the 2020 class + the transfer from Troy could eat into his minutes. Conditt is still a work in progress but has a lot of upside and he has two more years and two more off seasons to prove so.

I have said like 3 times that he could develop into something more. I am writing him off, because 8 times out of 10 players don't take huge leaps in development. Sure you can keep mentioning the 2 out of 10 players who did, but like I keep saying, odds say he won't.

 

[CyTwins]

But next year he will be good at basketball?

Hopefully

 

[Statefan10]

I have said like 3 times that he could develop into something more. I am writing him off, because 8 times out of 10 players don't take huge leaps in development. Sure you can keep mentioning the 2 out of 10 players who did, but like I keep saying, odds say he won't.

The odds say that players won't develop? Lol what the heck are you talking about??

 

[Legend Hawk]

Hopefully

That is ISU basketball summed up in a word for next year.

 

[CyTwins]

That is ISU basketball summed up in a word for next year.

I mean do you think Toussaint will be good next year?

 

[Legend Hawk]

The odds say that players won't develop? Lol what the heck are you talking about??

Maybe I was pre mature calling you a rational ISU poster. You know what I mean. Going from a nothing burger to a good/great basketball player.

 

[Legend Hawk]

I mean do you think Toussaint will be good next year?

He will be better than this year, and I would bet Grill will be better than this year as well. Toussaint is a better basketball player now than Grill is and will be again next year. I don't think the ceiling of Toussaint is particularly large, and I think Grills is next to nothing. If you can't come in as a Fr and at least carve out a role on the team, that doesn't bode well for them (typically speaking, yes, yes I know there are exceptions to the rule).

 

[Statefan10]

Maybe I was pre mature calling you a rational ISU poster. You know what I mean. Going from a nothing burger to a good/great basketball player.

Even Dexter thinks you're the one who's being irrational lol. You're saying an 18 year old freshman will most likely not improve because he was bad his freshman year. You're also saying THT and Lindell didn't improve because they were already good, and then you say guys like Garza are outliers. So how do you then get better? Does anyone actually get better at all? Lol

 

[Legend Hawk]

Even Dexter thinks you're the one who's being irrational lol. You're saying an 18 year old freshman will most likely not improve because he was bad his freshman year. You're also saying THT and Lindell didn't improve because they were already good, and then you say guys like Garza are outliers. So how do you then get better? Does anyone actually get better at all? Lol

Garza, THT and Lindell all played huge roles on their teams as Fr. They played huge roles as Fr. because they were good basketball players.

I said to Twins that Grill will get better. The problem is even Twins says he is bad at basketball. So basically Grill has to develop light years to even get to where THT, Lindell and Garza were as Fr.

 

[Hawkmi]

I mean do you think Toussaint will be good next year?

I think he will be on a much better team than Grill. Isn't that what really matters.

 

[Statefan10]

Garza, THT and Lindell all played huge roles on their teams as Fr. They played huge roles as Fr. because they were good basketball players.

I said to Twins that Grill will get better. The problem is even Twins says he is bad at basketball. So basically Grill has to develop light years to even get to where THT, Lindell and Garza were as Fr.

THT was the #57 player in the nation and was drafted. Lindell was the #35 player in the nation and in the G-League. Thinking Grill is going to produce as much as those guys did their freshman years is ridiculous. I don't think anyone here thinks Grill is going to get drafted. Him being solid could mean he averages 8-10 points here before he's done.

 

[Legend Hawk]

THT was the #57 player in the nation and was drafted. Lindell was the #35 player in the nation and in the G-League. Thinking Grill is going to produce as much as those guys did their freshman years is ridiculous. I don't think anyone here thinks Grill is going to get drafted. Him being solid could mean he averages 8-10 points here before he's done.

As I keep saying, he could end up good. I do think he will develop from where he is at (hard to be worse really). This started as Twins saying Grill has a higher ceiling than Toussaint. One is a contributor on a top 25 BB team. The other is a bench warmer on a team that barely has Big12 capable players on it. Do you agree with Twins, is Grill some high ceiling player? I'm not talking a Sr who finally contributes 8 PPG, I'm talking a good player who averages 10+ PPG for his career?

 

[Gitwitit]

And he wanted Grill and nobody wanted Toussaint

Is Greg Marshall a good coach? he recruited and offered Toussaint. How about Anthony Grant? He coached in the NBA for several years before taking the job at Dayton. He offered Toussaint a scholarship.

 

[Iastatecyclone]

Yeah we gave up 90

That is true, but if you watch the last 3:30 when Terrence was out we didn’t score a point and Oklahoma scored 7. And that would average around 80s for Oklahoma anyway for the game anyway. And that’s while trying to whittle down the shot clock.

 

[Legend Hawk]

Is Greg Marshall a good coach? he recruited and offered Toussaint. How about Anthony Grant? He coached in the NBA for several years before taking the job at Dayton. He offered Toussaint a scholarship.

Even Twins knows that Toussaint is a better basketball player than Grill. Of course he won't admit it, but he does know it.