*** Official Milwaukee Vs IOWA STATE Gameday Thread ***

[AuH2O]

Fred’s very relevant to this year. If you’re not emotionally stable enough to handle that, it’s a you problem

We all know Fred is relevant to the current state of ISU basketball, but we've had pretty much the same posts with the same arguments after every loss last year, and we will repeat these arguments after very loss this year. I have no emotional stability problems related to this season. If you've been a fan of a non- blue blood team that had two years of really unbalanced classes this is what the rebuild looks like. The era of ISU being transfer U is over, not because Prohm wants it that way, but because every program, even elite ones like this model. We are now back to a school like ISu having to actually rebuild.

 

[FinalFourCy]

We all know Fred is relevant to the current state of ISU basketball, but we've had pretty much the same posts with the same arguments after every loss last year, and we will repeat these arguments after very loss this year.
I have no emotional stability problems related to this season.

If you've been a fan of a non- blue blood team that had two years of really unbalanced classes this is what the rebuild looks like. The era of ISU being transfer U is over, not because Prohm wants it that way, but because every program, even elite ones like this model. We are now back to a school like ISu having to actually rebuild.

And the argument that he shoulders some of the blame have been justified and will continue to be justified. If that bothers you so much, you’re either too emotional about the topic or not familiar with message boards.

We’ve had rebuilds. This isn’t what a rebuild looks like. This is what a poor rebuild looks like. And that’s on Prohm. It’s a fallacy to think it should be this way. It’s never been this bad, not even under Morgan or GMac. Transfer recruiting isn’t harder than in the past- that’s another fallacy. It’s just that Prohm and Co aren’t good at it. Look at how he gets high school commitments- that doesn’t translate well to the speed dating that is transfer recruiting. But since it’s required of good P5 programs to maintain success, he tried. Given how bad he was at it, he should have just went after high school guys the past two years. Unfortunately Fred waited until June, and Prohm refused to hire his way to good recruits. That’s on Fred, Prohm, and JP

 

[rholtgraves]

Fred has nothing to do with this year. That is just an easy scapegoat for people who for some reason hate blaming whomever the current coach is. It is ok to like Prohm and still think he did a bad job building a team for this year.

 

[BigBake]

It’s a fallacy to think it should be this way. It’s never been this bad, not even under Morgan or GMac. Transfer recruiting isn’t harder than in the past- that’s another fallacy.

That statement is 100% false and if you've followed basketball at all from 2000 - now you should be ashamed to think it's true. Transfer recruiting was absolutely different when Fred started with it. He really didn't have to compete with P5 programs for recruits. Prime example is KU, they didn't even bother looking at transfers in 2008 and today they are. That alone completely changed the transfer landscape when top programs got involved with recruiting transfers.

 

[BigBake]

We’ve had rebuilds. This isn’t what a rebuild looks like. This is what a poor rebuild looks like. And that’s on Prohm.

No it's on Fred and when he left us, both officially and unofficially. His status his last year drove many a recruit away by not being 100% committed to ISU.

This "poor rebuild" is the direct result of a coaching change. Top recruits are hesitant to commit to a school with a new coach and a unproven track record. I would say we got DAMN lucky Prohm had some great players his first two years and was able to show what he can do with talent. That pay off is already evident in next years class.

 

[rholtgraves]

That statement is 100% false and if you've followed basketball at all from 2000 - now you should be ashamed to think it's true. Transfer recruiting was absolutely different when Fred started with it. He really didn't have to compete with P5 programs for recruits. Prime example is KU, they didn't even bother looking at transfers in 2008 and today they are. That alone completely changed the transfer landscape when top programs got involved with recruiting transfers.

Didn't they get Withey in 2009? Kevin Young in 2011? I think there were less big time transfers 9-10 years ago. And also a lot more guys transferring up now. So while more schools are involved, there are also more kids to get. So I would guess all else being equal it is just as competitive. Duke has taken transfers for some time. Kentucky was going after Royce White.

 

[NoCreativity]

Lol at the posters still trying to blame Fred for this mess. Prohm has been here 2.5 years now which is an eternity in basketball when you only have 12 scholarships to hand out. Thats more than enough time and recruiting classes to field a Big 12 team at least capable of not getting embarrassed by a Horizon team at home.

Ill keep banging this point home but the main difference so far is Prohm is failing miserably in the transfer market. You can blame it on other teams getting them now but with as much success as weve had we should at least be able to get a top transfer over programs like UNLV.

The transfer talent he's bringing is pathetic compared to Hoiberg and a reason why we are terrible this year. If he keeps striking out on transfers then we are going to be going through these phases where we are terrible while the young talent develops.

 

[NoCreativity]

No it's on Fred and when he left us, both officially and unofficially. His status his last year drove many a recruit away by not being 100% committed to ISU.

This "poor rebuild" is the direct result of a coaching change. Top recruits are hesitant to commit to a school with a new coach and a unproven track record. I would say we got DAMN lucky Prohm had some great players his first two years and was able to show what he can do with talent. That pay off is already evident in next years class.

Last year? Hes been gone since May of 2015 now. He has nothing to do with our current talent level.

 

[jsb]

Last year? Hes been gone since May of 2015 now. He has nothing to do with our current talent level.

And that's part of the problem. Where are the juniors and seniors that Fred recruited before he left?

I think we all want to make this either 100% Fred's fault or 100% Steve's fault. It is not.

 

[NoCreativity]

And that's part of the problem. Where are the juniors and seniors that Fred recruited before he left?

I think we all want to make this either 100% Fred's fault or 100% Steve's fault. It is not.

He gave Prohm 2 years of high level talent, I dont know what more you can ask for. Even if he had a couple decent recruits his last 2 years they probably wouldnt have played much in Prohms first 2 years anyways with the talent level we had. They would be starting new this year or would have left by now anyways because they werent playing much.

 

[jsb]

He gave Prohm 2 years of high level talent, I dont know what more you can ask for. Even if he had a couple decent recruits his last 2 years they probably wouldnt have played much in Prohms first 2 years anyways with the talent level we had. They would be starting new this year or would have left by now anyways because they werent playing much.

And that’s why we are due a down year.

 

[NoCreativity]

And that’s why we are due a down year.

I think Prohms coaching abilitiy is going to be exposed heavily this year. He was gifted 2 NBA point guards at Murray so it was easy to dominate a bad conference. Hoiberg left him loaded with talent that alot of posters on this board could have taken to the 2nd round of the tournament.

He gets a free pass this year but I think if we arent back in tournament consideration next year we need to move on.

 

[SolarGarlic]

We all know Fred is relevant to the current state of ISU basketball, but we've had pretty much the same posts with the same arguments after every loss last year, and we will repeat these arguments after very loss this year. I have no emotional stability problems related to this season. If you've been a fan of a non- blue blood team that had two years of really unbalanced classes this is what the rebuild looks like. The era of ISU being transfer U is over, not because Prohm wants it that way, but because every program, even elite ones like this model. We are now back to a school like ISu having to actually rebuild.

And the argument that he shoulders some of the blame have been justified and will continue to be justified. If that bothers you so much, you’re either too emotional about the topic or not familiar with message boards.

We’ve had rebuilds. This isn’t what a rebuild looks like. This is what a poor rebuild looks like. And that’s on Prohm. It’s a fallacy to think it should be this way. It’s never been this bad, not even under Morgan or GMac. Transfer recruiting isn’t harder than in the past- that’s another fallacy. It’s just that Prohm and Co aren’t good at it. Look at how he gets high school commitments- that doesn’t translate well to the speed dating that is transfer recruiting. But since it’s required of good P5 programs to maintain success, he tried. Given how bad he was at it, he should have just went after high school guys the past two years. Unfortunately Fred waited until June, and Prohm refused to hire his way to good recruits. That’s on Fred, Prohm, and JP

Expecting the transfer recruiting to stay where it was is dumb. Transfer recruiting has completely changed, and anyone trying to say the blue bloods have always been recruiting transfers is being willfully ignorant. It is no longer faux pas to recruit transfers, and while the pool is larger now, the quality is about the same. There are a handful of Kane-like guys, and they aren't going to Iowa State. They're going to Kansas, Duke, Louisville, and Michigan State. Hoiberg found a cheat code, and it worked. But that's gone.

This has very little to do with Prohm's recruiting tactics although I agree they aren't a great match for transfer recruiting. Transfer recruiting IS harder, especially when the top recruiter of transfers is in your conference. That's not a fallacy and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Bill Self was not going after high-level, questionable-character transfers in 2012. Now he can't get enough.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Fred has nothing to do with this year. That is just an easy scapegoat for people who for some reason hate blaming whomever the current coach is. It is ok to like Prohm and still think he did a bad job building a team for this year.

Nothing? That’s a false statement and makes you seem agenda driven.

Fred wasn’t concerned about this year as he was never going to be here. Prohm has to clean up the **** Fred took on the program in these years, and pissed himself in doing so.

You don’t get beat down by UWM at home by one bad recruiting year. It takes several recruiting mistakes. Unfortunately there’s so much bad that there’s a lot of blame to go around.

 

[mitten1975]

Typical early season paranoia. I saw the game, and thought they played terrible. Their greatest weakness appears to be interior defense, and a ball distributor. (I knew we would miss Monte, guys like that just don't show up every day. I have been a Cyclone fan since the 70's and he has been unique.)

I think the fan base needs to help Prohm succeed. Cut him slack and mindlessly cheer on the team.

I think if we support him, eventually he will get it together. It is going to take some patience with the team this year. Donovan Jackson wasn't himself in that game. I expect him to get better.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Expecting the transfer recruiting to stay where it was is dumb. Transfer recruiting has completely changed, and anyone trying to say the blue bloods have always been recruiting transfers is being willfully ignorant. It is no longer faux pas to recruit transfers, and while the pool is larger now, the quality is about the same. There are a handful of Kane-like guys, and they aren't going to Iowa State. They're going to Kansas, Duke, Louisville, and Michigan State. Hoiberg found a cheat code, and it worked. But that's gone.

This has very little to do with Prohm's recruiting tactics although I agree they aren't a great match for transfer recruiting. Transfer recruiting IS harder, especially when the top recruiter of transfers is in your conference. That's not a fallacy and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Bill Self was not going after high-level, questionable-character transfers in 2012. Now he can't get enough.

This is blatantly false, but a common fallacy.

Recruiting transfers to ISU was never easier than last spring. The most transfers available ever, the best ISU brand ever, the most minutes and roles available potentially ever. Market dynamics were favorable, and Prohm completely whiffed. He ended up with a mediocre low major guy and an open spot. We haven’t seen a regression since Fred left, we’ve seen a drastic drop off. Hmm, what changed? That’s right, coaches.

 

[rholtgraves]

Nothing? That’s a false statement and makes you seem agenda driven.

Fred wasn’t concerned about this year as he was never going to be here. Prohm has to clean up the **** Fred took on the program in these years, and pissed himself in doing so.

You don’t get beat down by UWM at home by one bad recruiting year. It takes several recruiting mistakes. Unfortunately there’s so much bad that there’s a lot of blame to go around.

I agree that Fred didn't get any recruits for this year. Which is true, however, Prohm has known that since he got here. That's my point. As a head coach of the team starting in 2015 it was his responsibility to put a team together for this year. Is it not? He didn't put a good enough team together for this year. Sorry, Fred didn't get players to carry him for 3 years as opposed to 2. But I guarantee you that Prohm would say it is all on him. Not sure why fans won't.

Same stuff happened with McDermott. People loved to blame previous coaches well into his tenure at Iowa State.

 

[Cyforce]

Interesting how the stats break down.
8 more turnovers
8 less shots taken
8 less baskets made
30% of their FGs were 3's
30% 7 = 2 3pt FGs m/l
6 2's plus 2 3's = 18 point loss

 

[Cy$]

I think Prohms coaching abilitiy is going to be exposed heavily this year. He was gifted 2 NBA point guards at Murray so it was easy to dominate a bad conference. Hoiberg left him loaded with talent that alot of posters on this board could have taken to the 2nd round of the tournament.

He gets a free pass this year but I think if we arent back in tournament consideration next year we need to move on.

I probably wouldn't go that far. I think this year will show a lot of people how good Prohm really is. In Hoiberg's first year, you could see the potential that Hoiberg had as a coach.

It'll be a big red flag if this year's team doesn't at least win a couple big 12 games and be somewhat close to .500. Under 10 wins would be a bad sign.

 

[BigBake]

And that's part of the problem. Where are the juniors and seniors that Fred recruited before he left?

I think we all want to make this either 100% Fred's fault or 100% Steve's fault. It is not.

And that's 100% correct. It's 100% the result of a coaching change. That is usually always a hit to your recruiting cache.

Is Prohm as good as Fred on transfers? Hell no, that's painfully obvious. Is Prohm showing himself to be a better traditional recruiter? Hell yes, next years class proves that out.