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Plane on a Treadmill

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jbhtexas

jbhtexas

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Oct 20, 2006
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Arlington, TX
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

UofICy said:
No the plane is not moving forward. If you we standing next to the treadmill with the plane on it both moving in opposite directions at the same speed the plane will not move forward away from you just as you have no forward movement when you are running on a treadmill because your both going at the same speed.
Click to expand...

Get yourself a 3 ft long bungee cord, a toy tractor, and a treadmill. Fasten one end of the bungee cord to the wall, at about the same level off the ground as the top of the treadmill belt. Fasten the other end of the bungee cord to the front or rear of the toy tractor, as if you were going to use the bungee cord to pull the tractor around the room. Position the back end of the treadmill 6 ft from the wall, with the front of the treadmill pointing towards the wall to which the bungee cord is attached.

Put a mark of chalk on one of the tractor tires. With the treadmill off, stretch out the bungee cord and set the tactor on the back treadmill belt. As the bungee cord pulls the tractor along the treadmill belt towards the wall, count the number of revolutions that the tire makes.

Next, do the same thing again, exept this time, turn the treadmill on full blast. Presto!! When you set the tractor on the moving treadmill, the bungee cord still pulls the tractor towards the wall, against the movement of the treadmill, but the number of tire revolutions you count will increase. (EDIT- If the tractor isn't very heavy, the bungee cord will probably be strong enough to break the friction force between the tractor tires and the rolling treadmill belt, so the tractor might actually be sliding along the treadmill belt.)

This is anlogous to the airplane on a treadmill, except in the case of the airplane, the thrust of the high speed air (in the case of a prop plane) or air/exhaust gasses (in the case of a jet engine) are pushing the plane forward, instead of the bungee cord pulling the plane forward. The wheels of the airplane or the wheels of the toy tractor have nothing to do with imparting motion to the object.
 
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CloneCubbie

CloneCubbie

Member
Sep 14, 2007
394
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Gods Country (Ames), Iowa
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

ISUAlum2002 said:
1 hour.

You're "moving" at 30 mph, the rollerblade wheels are rotating at a speed of 60 mph. This is assuming that your treadmill is also 30 miles long.
Click to expand...


Okay, new question smarty pants...

You're standing on the threadmill, no jet pack, with your rollerblades on. You hold onto the little safty bar in front of you so you can't roll away, you stay where you are. Turn the treadmill up to 30mph.

How 'fast' are you traveling relative to the treadmill?

How 'fast' are you traveling relative to the ground?

How 'fast' are your wheels traveling?

Now, if you put on a jet pack which provides you the same amount of 'thrust' that holding onto the safety bar provides, how is it again that you're going to see me in 1 hr... ?



I've managed to waste twenty mins of my life reading this thread... it's all a matter of how you read the question and consider the possibility.

If the treadmill speed can counteract the thrust of the rockets there's no air speed no lift.

If the thrust of the rockets can superceed the counteracting treadmill, then you'll have air speed and lift off.

Why is this even a question?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :chatterbox:
 
ISUAlum2002

ISUAlum2002

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Apr 11, 2006
22,886
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Toon Town, IA
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

CloneCubbie said:
Okay, new question smarty pants...

You're standing on the threadmill, no jet pack, with your rollerblades on. You hold onto the little safty bar in front of you so you can't roll away, you stay where you are. Turn the treadmill up to 30mph.

How 'fast' are you traveling relative to the treadmill?

How 'fast' are you traveling relative to the ground?

How 'fast' are your wheels traveling?

Now, if you put on a jet pack which provides you the same amount of 'thrust' that holding onto the safety bar provides, how is it again that you're going to see me in 1 hr... ?



I've managed to waste twenty mins of my life reading this thread... it's all a matter of how you read the question and consider the possibility.

If the treadmill speed can counteract the thrust of the rockets there's no air speed no lift.

If the thrust of the rockets can superceed the counteracting treadmill, then you'll have air speed and lift off.

Why is this even a question?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :chatterbox:
Click to expand...

In his question, he stated that he was moving forward 30 mph and the treadmill was moving backward 30 mph. How can he be moving forward 30 mph if he is stationary?

That is why he would meet up with me 30 miles away an hour later. The wheels on the rollerblades would be rotating at 60 miles per hour and he is moving forward at 30 mph.
 
ISUCyclones

ISUCyclones

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,598
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Ames
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

This thread should be called those who took physics and those that didn't. Although most people I know would find the answer intuitive.
 
U

UofICy

Member
Nov 24, 2006
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Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

ISUAlum2002 said:
In his question, he stated that he was moving forward 30 mph and the treadmill was moving backward 30 mph. How can he be moving forward 30 mph if he is stationary?

That is why he would meet up with me 30 miles away an hour later. The wheels on the rollerblades would be rotating at 60 miles per hour and he is moving forward at 30 mph.
Click to expand...

Now your just lying. I said "Both me and the tread mill are "moving" at 30mph in opposite directions" I didin't say "moving forward" and "moving backward".
 
CloneCubbie

CloneCubbie

Member
Sep 14, 2007
394
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18
Gods Country (Ames), Iowa
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

ISUCyclones said:
I can't believe there is even a discussion about this. Why would a treadmill make one bit of difference? The propulsion of the aircraft is using the air for its medium i.e. not wheel driven.
Click to expand...

It's really quite obvious when you think of it this way... guess that's why I was a Marketing major...

I missed this before, I hadn't thought of that. Everyone has been thinking of it as if the plane were a car with wings, powered by an engine and moved via the wheels. (wouldn't move a bit)

I also stand corrected and will be betting that the plane will take off. :yes:
 
B

brownie

Member
May 13, 2006
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Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

I believe there are two different definitions of the word treadmill here. Both sides are right in their own way, depending on treadmill definition.
1) A traditional treadmill is stationary. It does not move position. Only the belt moves.If you're running on it, you expend energy but gain no forward movement.If you do, it's a very short distance to the control panel.
2)A moving sidewalk is the other thought. If you walk against it - in the wrong direction - you will advance but only by expending more energy and needing more effort to attain the same amount of forward movement.
Which are we talking about? Or both?:mask::eek:In either arguement - you're right!

Is there a basketball game soon??:yes::biggrin::biglaugh:please?


BTW, I'm way out of my league commenting on this subject but it's cool to see so many educated people all with a very cool agreement - GO CLONES!!
 
CloneCubbie

CloneCubbie

Member
Sep 14, 2007
394
15
18
Gods Country (Ames), Iowa
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

brownie said:
I believe there are two different definitions of the word treadmill here. Both sides are right in their own way, depending on treadmill definition.
1) A traditional treadmill is stationary. It does not move position. Only the belt moves.If you're running on it, you expend energy but gain no forward movement.If you do, it's a very short distance to the control panel.
2)A moving sidewalk is the other thought. If you walk against it - in the wrong direction - you will advance but only by expending more energy and needing more effort to attain the same amount of forward movement.
Which are we talking about? Or both?:mask::eek:In either arguement - you're right!

Is there a basketball game soon??:yes::biggrin::biglaugh:please?


BTW, I'm way out of my league commenting on this subject but it's cool to see so many educated people all with a very cool agreement - GO CLONES!!
Click to expand...


Really?!?

They're the same thing... just different speeds... and one is way longer... wow.
 
Wesley

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Omaha
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

This is like a new recruit thread. Lots of info and no final trsolution. Beggin for CyBookie.
 
ISUCyclones

ISUCyclones

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Nov 10, 2007
1,598
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Ames
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

Think of it this way. If the plane approached to land at 150 knots and the treadmill was spinning the opposite direction at 150 knots, would the plane instantly stop moving when it touches down, or would the wheels just have to spin a lot faster than normal (300 knots) while the plane rolls down the runway? Come on people, think...this isn't as hard as you're making it. Or on the other hand you can just go stick your head in the sand.
 
Wesley

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Omaha
Re: CyBookie - Plane on a Treadmill

And used up more precious helium from the reserve....helium comes from radioactive decay and is very irreplacable.
 
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